Tech information for scale KLine Hudsons from 2003

The motors are same. The only question is if the same gears are used on both engines. If you have them both its easy enough to pull both motors out and compare the gear. Should they be different, swapping gears is not a trivial task. You would be better off using a Cruise M. The Berks came with cruise so I don't think K-Line made a kit for them specifically as they did for the Hudson/Mikado (same kit works for both) and the articulated kit.

Pete

Norton,

Thanks for the reply.  I do recall Kline made a cruise kit for the Hudsons, but not certain it is for the same scale Hudson I have, from 2003.  That is my question, whether the cruise kit from my Berk will be applicable in the Hudson.  The St Fe Berk has a ERR Cruise Commander in it.  I had to change the can when it went out in 2012, and put in the ERR Cruise Comm.  I do still have the Berk Cruise kit electronics and have wondered about putting it in my scale Hudson, 5344W, and whether it had an appropriate can motor in it.  I know the Hudson is bigger, and heavier, but wonder about the reader working properly on the flywheel, if the can in the Hudson even has reader tape on it.  If it does not, where, and how, may I acquire reader tape for the Hudson can and it be correct for the Berkshire style cruise kit.  Perhaps if I put the correct reader tape for a Berk on the Hudson flywheel?

I'm just saying............    One of many reasons this hobby we enjoy is so great!

Jesse   TCA

They both have RS385 motors. The K-Line cruise kit was comprised of a new motor with the tach sensor already installed along with a new motor driver board. To put cruise in your Hudson you would need the motor with sensor along with new board.

I have installed an ERR Cruise M in my 2003 scale hudson and a K-Line cruise motor and board in my scale K-Line Mikado. They use the same gears. I don't have a Berk so can't say for sure if the gears are the same.

K-Line pretty much used the same RS385 motor in most of their scale and semi scale engines. The issue with trying to use their Cruise kit in an engine not specifically mentioned is the gear and having the extra room needed for the tach sensor assembly.

Maybe someone has done what you are trying to do and can say for sure if it will work but like I said if you have a working motor from a cruise equiped Berk its not a big deal to try it in your hudson. If you had a K-Line Cruise kit in hand you would be instructed to do that anyway.

BTW K-Line cruise does not use a tach tape, rather it has a slotted wheel like Lionel Legacy does. I suspect thats something Lionel copied from K-Line.

Here is a pic of the cruise kit. Note the tach wheel and sensor board under the flywheel.

Pete

Pete,

Again, thanks.  You are correct, I recall now, the Berk can had the plastic type slotted attached over the fly wheel, did it not?  The can motor in the Berk went out in 2012, had to install a new, NOT Kline can motor, so the new motor did not have the same small pc board affixed to it.  That was why I used the ERR Cruise Comm, because it utilizes feedback from the can to control the cruise.  The Kline cruise board is still good, I believe.  If the cans and motor electronics are same on the Berk and Hudson, I hope to utilize the good Kline Cruise electronics in the Hudson.  If this Hudson does not have the plastic slotted reader on the fly wheel, perhaps I can use the one from the old Berk can?

Thanks,

Jesse  TCA

What you want to do is a transplant.  Those were beautiful locomotives and ran well.  I had a few but was not happy with the motor size and bellows smoke unit.  I find the PS-1 Hudson with the monster Pittman motor to be a great upgrade to DCS or ERR.  

Jesse, you took the right way to go.  I will bet your locomotive runs great.

Transferring the tach sensor to the Hudson motor is really not worth the trouble. Its very easy to bend the motor shaft when reinstalling the flywheel. An ERR Cruise M is a simple install and will actually give smoother performance than K-Line Cruise which exhibits a few hiccups on starting.

 The K-Line engines are nicely detailed but all come with a relatively small Mabuchi motor mounted in the opposite direction from most other steam engines. 5-6 18" cars are about its limit. 

All of the MTH Scale hudsons and there are dozens plus the Lionel J3s have the large Pittman motor and will pull twice the number of cars as the K-Line plus they have fan smoke. Its worth putting a Cruise M in but not worth getting too carried away IMHO.

Pete

It all depends on how the Berk motor worm gear is set up.  If same you may be able to do a motor swap, but I think it is different.  Cruise M really is a simpler change and the Berk stays the same?  I many have the Hudson motor and K-Line Cruise, I have converted a few to PS-2 with Fan Driven Smoke.   G

Thanks, everyone.  I wanted to get this conversation going as a new topic for all, and due to my having the Kline cruise board, and making use of it.  Yes, I upgraded the Berk when it's can motor went North in 2012 with the ERR Cruise M.  The Berk runs great, and the method ERR utilizes is better.  Just for the sake of utilizing the older Kline cruise may not really be worth all the effort.  I did have the PS1 Hudson, and yes, liked the way it pulled.  As with all the PS1 engines I have, still looking for a way to upgrade to TMCC and retain the PS1 sounds, mostly in my many U.P. turbines.  As ERR has a way to utilize the A.S. sound boards with their TMCC upgrade, hope they, or others, may find a way to do same with the QSI/PS1 boards.  There is no question of the ERR methods of upgrade are best on the market.

Jesse   TCA 12-68275

For what its worth the K-Line Mikado and Hudson cruise kits are interchangeable I believe, but the fact that there is a separate Berk kit suggests that there is a difference and they are not interchangeable. Most likely the worm gear is different, as suggested above. If you have the right kit the swap is pretty easy to do. Brasseurs may have the kit you need.

Rod

Rod, if I understood Jessie right he has a K-Line Cruise board bit no motor to go with it. That makes the board fairly useless without a motor other than maybe to replace the board in another K-Line cruise engine with a bad board.

I think the reason there was never a specific Berk kit is because they all came with Cruise from K-Line. No need for a kit except for repair.  The Hudson and Berk motors may in fact be interchangeable but without both to compare no one knows.

Pete

GGG converted my K Line Scale Hudson to PS2 and it's terrific now. One of my favorite engines.

Roger

Pete,    Yes, I recall seeing the Hudson/Mikado Cruise kits when I was searching for a can motor to replace the bad one in the Berk, back in 2012.  What I finally did was install the ERR Cruise M and a larger can, and had no problem with the gearing.  I am certain I will be going with ERR upgrade in my Kline Hudson I prefer to upgrade with TMCC in my roster.  I do have some MTH with PS2, and they run great, no problems.  But, I do not anticipate to ever go to DCS and to remain with TMCC as my operating system.  Now, if only the final tech issue of having a TMCC upgrade and utilize the QSI/PS1 sounds with.........     I have a lot of great MTH U.P. turbines and wish to retain the unique sounds of each.

Many thanks to all for your input.

Jesse   TCA

Others have had good luck with the K-Line cruise system, but all of mine were jerky and hunted/surged unevenly. ERR cruise M does a very nice job in these locos.

Pete said: "I think the reason there was never a specific Berk kit is because they all came with Cruise from K-Line. No need for a kit except for repair."

Pete; that may very well be the reason, never thought of that.

In case its of any help to you Jesse, here are a couple of pix of a K-Line standard Hudson/Mikado motor out of one I upgraded:

The worm extends a little more than 1-1/8" beyond the motor bushing hub, and there are exactly 10 threads per inch on the worm. The worm shank is 0.295" diameter. I don't have a Berk motor handy to compare it with I am afraid. Someone out there may have one.

Rod

All,  Thanks for all the information on these engines and internals, upgrade methods.  Tonight I installed an ERR DC Commander into my 2003 Kline Hudson and it runs great under TMCC.  Tomorrow I will buy some nylon screws for the tender shell onto the frame, intend to use the cast tender as the signal antenna, as I did with the MTH Big Boy ERR upgrade.  Will have to install ERR Railsounds when they arrive, the SS4D unit still requires the DC impulse for whistle and bell, an interesting combination for now with TMCC operating.  But, overall, this is a fine detailed Hudson I like and well worth all the upgrades over time, as with other engines in my roster.

Again, thanks for the input and interesting information.   Now....hmmmmmm.... what to do with the "leftover" electronic reverse/control units I have from the Hudson and the Santa Fe SD75 upgrade a couple years ago.  Perhaps a couple MPC or well used Post War engines ?  

Jesse   TCA  12-68275  

Gene McCandless