Good morning Group. Is it necessary/beneficial to add a baffle/enclosure to a tender speaker or does the tender shell itself provide an adequate baffle/enclosure? I'm using a round Tang Band speaker.
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Speakers have a rating for the volume they can fill. If the tender is too big, it won't help the speaker. Having an enclosure, helps the speaker produce more sound.
This is a big subject and it's tuff to give some all in one answer. Maybe the exact speaker model would help you, if you look up the specs on it.
You could try putting a plastic cap of the correct diameter over the speaker to test.
Engineers tune the enclosure to help achieve the performance they desire or optimize the speaker's performance.
You might take a look at the Tang Band speakers that come complete with an enclosure. They make some in small sizes that fit well in O scale models.
@tigermoth posted:Peter. Most of Tang Band mini round speakers don't have a baffle/enclosure. In the case of boiler and tender installs, in O scale, can you assume the boiler and tender body act as the baffle/enclosure or does one have to be built?
"For the most part, you'll get MUCH better results with a proper speaker baffle. If you look in most Lionel Legacy tenders, they have a speaker baffle. I can assure you they wouldn't spend the money if it wasn't doing some good. 
Adding a speaker baffle will improve the sound of almost any speaker."
already answered!
@tigermoth posted:Good morning Group. Is it necessary/beneficial to add a baffle/enclosure to a tender speaker or does the tender shell itself provide an adequate baffle/enclosure? I'm using a round Tang Band speaker.
Most certainly a proper baffle will make a big difference in most cases. It's simple to try it yourself, it's pretty easy to fabricate a simple baffle and see the results. It's not rocket science to make a basic baffle. While truly engineering the ideal baffle is a lot more complex, a simple dixie cup over a speaker will make a huge difference.
I am confused. what is the difference between a baffle and a enclosure?
@David Eisinger posted:I am confused. what is the difference between a baffle and a enclosure?
I think most here use the term interchangeably. A baffle might include more complex enclosures other than a close box.
Pete
@David Eisinger posted:I am confused. what is the difference between a baffle and a enclosure?
@Norton posted:I think most here use the term interchangeably. A baffle might include more complex enclosures other than a close box.
I agree that the terms are used pretty interchangeably, but I believe that technically an enclosure can be any box designed to fit a speaker, while a baffle is the ducting inside the enclosure which lengthens and tunes the frequency response of the enclosure. In practice and as commonly used, both refer to both the box *and* all the stuff inside it designed to make the speaker sound better. Unless you're talking to the audiophile equivalent of rivet counters, it probably won't matter which you use! 
Tigermoth,
The sound should come from the engine not the tender. Put the speaker in the boiler. I think you will be happier in the long run.
Just a thought.
Ed
@Ed Kelly posted:The sound should come from the engine not the tender. Put the speaker in the boiler. I think you will be happier in the long run.
That's not as easy as it sounds. It's not as easy to get the sounds out of the boiler. There's a reason that the sound is in the tender in 98% of the O-scale steam.
Not easy to get the sound out as its not easy to get a speaker of any size in even in the largest diecast steam engines.
Pete
@Ed Kelly posted:The sound should come from the engine not the tender. Put the speaker in the boiler. I think you will be happier in the long run.
Just a thought.
If you're getting close enough to the engine and tender to tell which is putting out the sound, you're *way* too close! 
Seriously, if the speaker holes are on the bottom, the sound will likely disperse enough to make it virtually impossible to precisely distinguish the source's location anyway. As GRJ noted, most engines seem to locate the sound output in the tender, reserving the limited engine spaces for all the *go* stuff!
You also have to see if there is even room in the tender for the baffle especially if the coal load area narrows above it.
John
@Craftech posted:You also have to see if there is even room in the tender for the baffle especially if the coal load area narrows above it.
John
Obviously, anything you put inside your locomotive or tender has to fit! 
It's true that's not always obvious, more than once I've had everything mounted only to find the boiler or tender shell doesn't fit! 
Sometimes you have to get the tools out to "make it fit"! This is a Tang Band speaker from Parts Express, going into a Division Point 4-6-0 SP locomotive. The first cut is the hardest, LOL. You can shorten all the Tang Band speakers by cutting off the mounting tabs. In this case I only had to cut them off one end. These are great sounding speakers. I also managed to squeeze the smallest Tang Band into the smoke box. I use QSI TITAN decoders that are true stereo so the sounds can be adjusted to where they come out, i.e. chuff, full front, water fill full rear. You can’t really hear the stereo effect in this video as it was taken on iPhone.
Peter
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I always install speakers in the boiler of my steam engines. never in the tender. If you have a layout that is designed for walk around operation where you are up close to the trains you can tell were the sound is originating from. steam engine sounds like chuffing, safety valves, whistles, blow down, bells etc.. always seem odd coming from the tender. If two or more engines are running in a consist as they pass by you close up can tell were the sound is coming from and it even produces a Doppler effect to the trackside observer. I do agree that if your layout is designed that you are far away from the engines then speakers in the tender may not matter.
Are you able to get any semblance of 'bass' from the boiler?
What successful boiler speakers have been used, specifically with ESU Loksound V5 decoders?
@tigermoth posted:Good morning Group. Is it necessary/beneficial to add a baffle/enclosure to a tender speaker or does the tender shell itself provide an adequate baffle/enclosure? I'm using a round Tang Band speaker.
It also depends on what the tender shell is made of, brass more bounce plastic less. Also it really comes down to your ear. Years ago when I went to buy new stereo speakers, I went to a high-end store. The salesman took me into a room full of speakers. He then told me close my eyes and just listen. Pick the pair you think is best when I did I was shocked to find out it was a no name speaker that happened to have really good tone. .
@c.sam posted:Are you able to get any semblance of 'bass' from the boiler?
in O scale steam engines I have been able to fit a speaker that is around 1 inch in diameter. they are advertised as "high base" speakers and sound great to me. but then sound can be subjective to the individual.
I used to use the round "high base" speaker in the boiler also. Once I found the Tang Band modular speakers I switched as they had way more bass! The smallest one will fit in most boilers. Cut the mounting tabs off as it shortens the speaker almost an inch. If the boiler isn’t big enough, I use doubled iPhone 4 speakers. The actually have great bass.
https://share.icloud.com/photo...U6DJ6bOyrRJMx_Mruirg
Peter
@Peter E B posted:If the boiler isn’t big enough, I use doubled iPhone 4 speakers. The actually have great bass.
Where do you get the iPhone speakers?
I used to get them from a guy in Canada but I don’t think he sells them anymore as he’s become a Ring dealer.
I believe these are OEM iPhone 4 speakers. Screen shot for some odd reason this forum doesn’t like links, sorry……
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