The 2341: So Rare It Shouldn't Be Run?

Life is short. Lube it, put it on the track, and enjoy it. Or buy a Williams and not worry about it. NO, I do not have this locomotive but a neighbor has one and it is sweet to see it run.

...keep the rails polished...

It all depends upon the condition of the engine.

To run an engine that has already been run would not diminish the condition of the locomotive. (Unless one was planning to play crash with it).

 If the engine had never been run, then running it would diminish the condition, and lessen the uniqueness of the item.

Such decisions are up to the owner.

 If it is sealed in the box, take it out and run It. It only a train and they are to be enjoyed. 

Back in the 90's I parted out all kinds of scale Hudson's that were like new or were new. Also did the same with many other PW trains, including F3's, trainmasters and many others.

I'll admit I did it for the money but I also thought of them of just toys that were made to be enjoyed, not to sit on some shelf.

Mine has a lot of run time on it from the time I was a kid. Still looks good and the last time I used it, it performed well.

It is now in a well deserved retirement.

Rule #1: If it runs -- Run it!

Rule #2: If it doesn't run -- Fix it, then refer to Rule #1

Lionel FM Central of N.J. #2341 is a beautiful color paint scheme, ready to RUN!!!!!!!!

http://www.postwarlionel.com/c...in/postwar?ITEM=2341

Ralph 

If you really have a 2341 Jersey Central FM Trainmaster that has never been run, then you need to either take it out of the box, run it and enjoy it, or give it to a toy train museum.  Just keeping it in the box doesn't make since to me, but I'm sure there are many collectors who will disagree.

Ron

Everything I buy is to run, and I run everything I own.  The locomotive in question would be no different if I had one.  It's a toy, toys are meant to be played with, so I play with my toys.

I run some of my older stuff every so often so the stuff does not freeze up.

If it's sealed in the original shipping carton save it. Otherwise, run it like 'ya stole it!

Gilly

Translated = diminish and lessen the $$$$

I always wanted a 2341, especially since I grew up in CNJ / NY&LB RR territory.  I bought a Williams.  And run it.

I used to have more of a collector mindset, but I guess I grew smarter with age. Sitting in a box might be nice, but if you can't even see in the box, what joy does it bring?  I bought a mint 1990 scale Hudson a few months ago. Got it home and ran it (well, until I ran out of curves that could handle it!).  I now take it to our club layout. LIfe is too short to not enjoy those things that put a smile on our faces.

quote:

Translated = diminish and lessen the $$$$

If that is what my comment means to you, then that's fine.

That is not what it means to a real collector. The $$$$ are secondary, because the item will not be sold.

quote:

what joy does it bring?

The pleasure of ownership. The activities surrounding its acquisition.
An individual is either a collector or they are not.
I can appreciate why people like to play with toy trains.

A lot of people do not seem to be able to appreciate why people collect various things.

A matchbook collector doesn't burn all his matches.

Coin and stamp collectors don't use their coins/stamps (the ones that are in their collection).

Any speculators who have been accumulating trains as an investment is not going to fare well. Collecting of any kind is loosing popularity, which should result in falling prices for most items.

As I wrote earlier, what you do with your stuff is your business.

I could not agree more.  I have some locos that are arguably "rare" - and "expensive" - if not just in dollars in the cost to reproduce them, and I run them a lot.  That is why I bought them.  

If you can't afford to loose it you shouldn't play with it and if you can't play with it, why the heck did you buy it?

If you find a #2341 that has not been run, sell it and buy a Corvette.

Are you planning to drive the Corvette?  I had a 69 Corvette a long time ago.  I drove it across country.  Did you know there weren't any speed limits in Montana back in the day and gas was 25 cents a gallon?.  It was fun but it did diminish the value.

Joe

The 2341 simply doesn't grab me the way the other FMs do. This is because it's so rare and so non-prototypical.   I would never fork over the long green for a real one today, although many moons ago I thought I had just such a chooch. It turned out to be an early fake!  I'm happy with the idea of a repro of one type or another. The new ones run soooo much better and offer oodles more features.

There is more than one version of the 2341. I forget which one is rare. But I think the rarest FM is the blue/yellow  2331 Virginian on the gray shell. There are fewer 2341 FMs than there are 2331 FMs but susposedly there are very few 2331s on the gray shell.

The 2341s with a glossy finish are the rarer ones.  I think there were only two variations; that one and the flat finish version.

Nowhere near a distant second though.  And collectors buy and sell all the time.

No i do not own one but had opportunity to see and buy one many years ago but at 1700 i could not afford it.

They are beautiful looking in my humble opinion so when i saw a Williams from 1980 i bought it at 100.00 has the old large pittman dual motors and runs like a top.

Liked it so much i bought several others same motors different road names.

Years ago when kids were born i picked up a beat up pair of SF. AA 2343 lionel's  and re- sprayed the roof added new front decals and hand painted our kids namse on them, they still look like crap but the kids loved watching them run with there names on them.

Fast forward now in college they could care less about them as they lost interest good while back, one day i said to them you know

all these trains will be yours one day and their reply was "dad we will probably just sell them ".

Joe that was priceless !!!

Now before it's too late take the VIA Canadian across Canada

Priceless

The 2341 is rare in Lionel post war production. Remember they were sold as toys in sets and alone. They were not produce to be shelf queens under glass. IMHO you are making to much of the word rare. They were easy to find and cheap until 1972. A lot of post war soared in price in the early 1970s. Saw one for $90 used in winter 1972 in Weitz TV and Hobbies in Chicago. Next time I saw one 18 months latter at a private sale in like new condition it was $200. Off to the races they went after that.

Get a PWC 2341. Two versions of that exist. The single sale and the set version.

If you want a post war 2341 new in the box, be careful. That engine is the most often counterfitted post war engine. Reason, the blue shells were everywhere for $10 in the 1970s. Reproduction boxes exist today. I am not sure abot Ray O Vac D cell batteries though that came with engines. There is a lot to learn and know about collecting post war Lionel

Hello clem k

I sure like to have a '69 corvette with 427 tri-power (435 H.P.)/ TH400 tranny. I saw one for sale at a car dealer for 65,000 restored, I made a quick "U" turn out the door in heartbeat.

The woman who loves the S.F.5011,2678,2003,200

Tiffany

John, John, John...it's all about the money with you...you must come to grips with the notion that Burfle and Blume are TRUE COLLECTORS, and have a legitimate place on this Forum.  Ya don't have to like us, just RESPECT that we have a place here!!!  When I bid on a 392E or a set of Girard cars this Saturday, I will make sure I have enough funds to cover, but if I win, no more thoughts of money.  Try being less argumentative, and try not to decide why we COLLECT!!!

If it's not all about money Ron, then pray tell me why do mint-in-box, "rare" and highly sought items tend to command high prices compared to those that aren't?

Car folks are more rational.

NO one keeps their Corvettes in the box.

your right but my son keeps asking to swap cars with me so he doesn't put miles on his 07 vette

quote:

If it's not all about money Ron, then pray tell me why do mint-in-box, "rare" and highly sought items tend to command high prices compared to those that aren't?

Because price is determined by supply and demand - or haven't you heard that old saw?

REREAD MY POST...Burfle and I collect because we love collecting.  YOU LUMP EVERYONE IN ONE SLOT...you don't like collectors, you don't like people who can "outtrain" you, and you don't like all of TCA.  There, I feel better.  Thanks for indulging me.  You never did anything to me...you are probably a cool guy...you live in a neat place...you got a lot going for you.  I just don't like you telling us how to think.  I wish I was rich, and money makes the world go round.  I dig it, but I don't let it consume me.  I work **** hard for a 63 year-old...I would be retired if I did not collect all these trains.  Stupid me!  Respectfully, Ron B.

Yep, and hence, my original reply to your post about diminishing and lessening the value of the 2341 if it's taken out of it's sealed mint-in-box and ran, which was closer to the mark than you give credit for.

LOL Ron, never said I dislike collectors.  What I dislike is the "collector driven market" that Lionel and others are riding the coattails on.  The prices of virtually all non-starter set items they sell have that squarely in mind.

Hello guys and gals.............

then the best thing to do is to take the shell off and REPAINTED it to different road name and this will be the end of it.

the woman who loves the S.F.5011,2678,2003,200

Tiffany

The value of that engine is bast on the road name. I believe that the FM Trainmaster is the best pulling engine Lionel has ever made. Unless you mess with the paint it will hold its value. There is one problem that showed up later on in it's life and that would be the trucks crack.The material used was poor grade.

quote:

LOL Ron, never said I dislike collectors.  What I dislike is the "collector driven market" that Lionel and others are riding the coattails on.  The prices of virtually all non-starter set items they sell have that squarely in mind.

Then aim your venom at Lionel and those other companies that milk the instant collectable market.

Venom?  A little hyper-sensitive are we?

Aiming the blame at Lionel is just deflecting.  It's the collector market mentality that drives it, not the other way around.

The funny thing about this whole thread?  The 2341 is not that scarce.  I can buy you one in great condition every month.  They are desirable and expensive and made only in 1956...not rare!!!  Now a 385E all original is rare!

This is true. I can also think of many other harder to find pieces Lionel made in other eras, from the kit form 700K scale Hudson to the 1994 Carail T-1's.