The Elusive "Perfect" 3R Track - Would there be any "Takers"

No, because no matter what you do to 3-rail track, it will still be 3-rail track--even with N or HO scale center rail or a blade for center rail.  I struggled with this issue for several years before deciding to go to 2-rail for appearance reasons, but 2-rail has its own set of issues (larger required curves, lack of availability of equipment, time involved to convert equipment, etc.).

I was close to going with MTH ScaleTrax, but I could not get past the fact that the ties are not correctly spaced.  Other 3-rail track systems are also a compromise:  Ross and Gargraves have rail and ties that are too big; Atlas has rail that is too big; other 3-rail track systems (K-Line, Lionel T-rail, Lionel Super O) are harder to find and are also too big; stud rail, if I recall, has issues with switches since the studs have to increase in height to get the slider over the outside rail.

If there was a new 3-rail track system, I think these attributes would be necessary:  1. Code 172 solid rail (big, but not Atlas/Ross/Gargraves code 215 big, yet big enough for most 3-rail flanges); 2. correctly sized and spaced ties; 3. less obtrusive center rail (blade or smaller rail); 4. reliable switches offered in many sizes; and 5. durable.

No.

3-rail is 3-rail, and 2-rail is 2-rail, and never the twain shall meet. My O gauge and Std. Gauge worlds have always been 3-rail, and always will be given my advanced age. My Z, N, HO, On30, and Large Scale (G) worlds have always been 2-rail, aside from my Marklin HO, which has a stud center rail.

I have a 2-rail layout built with MicroEngineering code 148 track and switches from Signature Switch Company. Operation is absolutely reliable, and I have never had a derailment that wasn't my own fault in some way. I know this discussion is focused on improving 3-rail track, but in my humble opinion the best way to improve 3-rail track is to drop the center rail and go to 2-rail!   There is actually a lot of equipment available for 2-rail O-gauge (I'm not talking about Proto 48), from Big Boys and Alleghenys that demand a large-radius down to F-3s/7s that operate nicely on smaller curves. I am only bringing this up in an attempt to gently push some current 3-rail modelers into 2 rail. Also, as the Baby-Boomers like me die off, there will be a lot of 2-rail equipment coming up for sale at good prices. Just saying ...

In theory:  Yes

In Reality:  Probably not.  A new track system would have to be head and shoulders above what I already have.  A mere marginal improvement would not be enough. 

This post takes me back to my youth. Always debating Lionel and American Flyer. If you really hate 3 rail then run American Flyer. Except for a few years in HO & N I've been using 3 rail. Tubular, Super O, Gargraves, Atlas ect. I'm so used to it that when I see real RR Tracks they don't look prototypical LOL.

@B Smith posted:

I have a 2-rail layout built with MicroEngineering code 148 track and switches from Signature Switch Company.  I know this discussion is focused on improving 3-rail track, but in my humble opinion the best way to improve 3-rail track is to drop the center rail and go to 2-rail!  

I think you have hit the spike ...er, the nail on the head here sir!  I longed for better 3R track for several years when my ScaleTrax layout had to come down due to a move and I agonized over the decision to continue in 3R or not. I have a good supply of Atlas 3R on hand but my future availability of a place to rebuild is uncertain at this point and I'm in my 80th year. 

Thanks c. sam -- I'm 78, so I don't envision building another layout at this point. I am very happy with my 2-rail system and the availability of ready-to-use track and switches is actually better than when I first got started in O-scale back in 1973, when I bought some CLW AlCo kits.  Good track, Athearn trucks, Intermountain wheel sets, KDs, and high-quality plastic cars and diesels -- Pittman remotored Atlas F-3s in my case, which perform dual duty on the California Zephyr and some freight trains-- have yielded a trouble-free model railroad.

@Dave_C posted:

This was an add in the early 90’s run in OGR. Many options for rail choices. Different rail heights. I saw this displayed at the Amherst show. The designer had a background in manufacturing and had  developed many plastic kits over the years. He was taking orders. Probably ahead of it’s time and really not sure what became of it.

I believe that was Rod Guthrie.  I think he also tooled the OGR buildings.

Lou N

@Pat Shediack posted:

Regarding "reliable operation" and avoiding derailments, my last layout (2007 - 2019) used Ross sectional track and switches and a few long Gargraves straight and uncoupling/unloading tracks.  All those items were embedded in Ross Roadbed which provides for countersinking about half the tie's height.

Regarding looking "scale", by painting the roadbed gray before installing the track and ballasting later, I achieved what I wanted--a 90% solution.  (A 100% solution would have been no center rail at all, but then that would meant abandoning 3R and my legacy locomotives and rolling stock.)

I hope this info is helpful.

Thank you Pat this is indeed helpful.  I was not aware of Ross Roadbed.  To me it definitely improves the appearance.

Does it also help to quiet the track?  Please let me know.  Thanks!

Lou, that’s correct. I have a NH Buzzards Bay tower he produced under the  Railway Design brand. Cast in heavy resin.  I think when Myron Biggar ended up with the Korber line. He started Buildings Unlimited. I’m pretty sure some of the plastic kits offered were designed by Rod Guthrie. I believe one was the Flagstop Station and there was a store that was done in stone.

One good thing of being a Digital Subscriber. You can go back through time searching out products and adds in the older issues. You sort of remember things. But it’s nice you can confirm it.

@MainLine Steam posted:

Thanks for posting.  This is a really neat concept.  Wondering what others think of this Track?

BTW Curtis has been mentioned a few times in this topic (including in this ad).  How did their track compare to Gargraves?  Was it very similar or what made it unique?  Thanks.

Back in 2005 when I started Panhandle 1, I had 15 of Frank Curtis' switches, including a double cross-over.  They were gorgeous, trouble-free, and a bit less expensive than the comparable Ross offerings at the time.  It was my impression that Curtis HiRail was a 1-man show.  Eventually, Frank retired and Curtis HiRail ceased operations in 2007 or 2008.

I believe I still have a few of them which I will eventually put up on the For Sale sub-forum.

George

I would be all over some track with a Super O type center rail. My biggest gripe with 3 rail is the huge center rail versus something thinner.

@Surefire posted:

I would be all over some track with a Super O type center rail. My biggest gripe with 3 rail is the huge center rail versus something thinner.

Thanks, I feel the same way, part of the reason I started this topic.  Although due to consensus of comments, I have decided this is NOT a venture I am going to pursue.

Lots of great info here!  Thanks to all.

@Pup posted:

This post takes me back to my youth. Always debating Lionel and American Flyer. If you really hate 3 rail then run American Flyer. Except for a few years in HO & N I've been using 3 rail. Tubular, Super O, Gargraves, Atlas ect. I'm so used to it that when I see real RR Tracks they don't look prototypical LOL.

Probably a lot of us have thought that same thing, especially when looking at 3 rail layouts like Norm's, Dave's etc.

O (1/48) is really the only size/scale where this even comes into play, so I guess my response here would be: maybe there is no "Perfect" 3R track...the closest might be the "original" outside 3rd rail used back in the day...(?)

Mark in Oregon

@Strummer posted:

Probably a lot of us have thought that same thing, especially when looking at 3 rail layouts like Norm's, Dave's etc.

O (1/48) is really the only size/scale where this even comes into play, so I guess my response here would be: maybe there is no "Perfect" 3R track...the closest might be the "original" outside 3rd rail used back in the day...(?)

Mark in Oregon

Living near NY City, can definitely say, outside 3rd rail is Prototypical.  Not just on Light Rail, it is used on the "Hudson Line" (former NYC).

Looking back, the reason I replaced the old Lionel track with Gargraves was the incredible variety of Ross Switch designs. I know I am not alone in this.

To switch again, would take a lot more than a nicer straight or curved track design.  So maybe having battery-powered trains would do that, but a mere track-upgrade would not!

@MainLine Steam posted:

Living near NY City, can definitely say, outside 3rd rail is Prototypical.  Not just on Light Rail, it is used on the "Hudson Line" (former NYC).

Of course it is...I was referring to model track, as per this ongoing discussion...

Mark (originally from Connecticut) in Oregon