The End Of Our Hobby

Chris, just watched your YouTube video on this subject!  This has been talked about for years and it appears that the hobby is growing. I started this crazy addiction back in 1978 as a 12 yr old. Still collecting & buying wayyyyyyy more than I need. I think what a lot of people see is the brick & mortar stores closing and assume the hobby is dying. I have seen so many great advances in my years of collecting in this hobby. I really like to see you and your friends doing the YouTube videos, I call you guys the "Young guns" I would love to share my collection but have no idea how to do a You Tube video, so I will just have to watch you guys!!! Keep up the great work, and I agree that the younger crowd does in fact get drawn to the fantasy paint schemes. Of course, I have a few of them myself, boy how times change!!! Feel free to reach out on your next trip to Michigan as I am probably near your travel route!! NE, Ohio near the turnpike

Jeff

@Cmontagna posted:

It's been happening more and more and I think it's time to call it out for what it is, the end of model railroading.

  .........Boy Chris.......you sure know how to scare a fella.

You start out with that post and then you standing there looking like a person in the Twilight Zone with those little people frozen in time ...

Nice production on the video Chris.     Keeping " youngsters " like you having a fun time with this hobby should certainly keep this three dimensional art form from falling into oblivion.

God speed sir .

Definitely a sign of trouble. Now pardon me while I work on painting this GG1 into Ann Arbor colours…

I used to see them all the time loading the car ferries up here in Elberta. 😊😊😊

Jeff C

Great video, Chris!

Peter

Chris, really great topic, love the video along with your special effects.  For my collection, I alway try to purchase fantasy schemes over the true to life engines.  The more colorful the engine, the better I like it.  Guess that's why I'm not into wseathering..

Chris, you have a great point. People have been talking about this topic for a good while now, and I think another reason is probably because of the heyday of what their model railroading days doesn't compare to what is going on now. The explosion of how the hobby has changed over the years always is like everything else, it changes. If you were to get that old yardstick out of the timeline of model railroading, you would see how things went from big, bigger, down a bit, down even further, back up, etc., etc.

Just a few years ago when Mike Wolf said he was retiring(or going to retire), people including myself said how much he had changed the hobby for the better. The traditional sized models went to the lower end of the spectrum to make way for scale sized. Without that move, we would all be having prototypical traditional layouts(?). The hobby is always going to change, and yes, there is always going to be that doubt cast upon what is going on.

That being said, I am not a person that goes for the flashy fantasy schemes, but that doesn't mean I do not have fantasy engines in fantasy schemes. As you have pointed out, yeah, if something was never made for that particular railroad, of that particular engine, it is a fantasy scheme. I have a few that are indeed black locomotives, but the railroad in question did not have that style of engine, or not that variation of it. I believe one such model was the custom run New York Central Pacific done by Mr. Muffin's. Yes the Central had Pacific's, but not that particular one. I also have the USRA Mallet for the New York Central. They did not have that type, but it looks like a mini beast which was why I went for it. I do believe I may have a few diesels that also fit into this category, though I prefer steam, there are a few diesels(within the steam era) that I tend to pick up.

In closing, yeah, I think the hobby is still in a great place, and things will change as they always do. It is just a question of we railroaders, changing with the times, accepting what is going on, or working on ways to improve them. I do think that all of you Youtuber's, are indeed making the hobby a much better place in this world. Keep up the great work, and keep those trains(steamer's) running.

I abhor fantasy engines.

OK, maybe not...

Love it !!

Is that a traditional Weinermobile or the new Frank Frankmobile?   I think the new-named one might come with a case of Bud Light.

Used to see the real ones in the 50's with Little Oscar.  I recently saw one of the renamed ones on the highway - not only a silly name but they even changed the shape.  Is nothing sacred?

Nice...but incomplete. You need a couple flat cars behind it.....one for the bun, one for mustard and one for fluorescent green relish! 🤣

"The end of the hobby" has been discussed as long as there has been a hobby.

I used to think "Collecting" would be the death of the hobby since it took equipment out of the pool available for operating. It wasn't.

They used to say slot cars killed toy trains and model railroading. They didn't. I just wish they had more 1:43 slot car equipment so I could integrated it with a train layout.

They used to say that, because most in model railroading are between 50 and 300 years old that it would die out. While that's true to some extent, the kids that see the hobby come into it later revive it.

They say the cost is going to kill the hobby. Well, considering that a $50 locomotive was a week's salary back in the 1940's, I  think (opinion) that modern equipment's cost is actually lower.

They say that spouses/significant others will pull people out of the hobby. Not true. You're at home or at the club or at a train show instead of a sports bar.

Just a few thoughts.

@cbq9911a posted:

"The end of the hobby" has been discussed as long as there has been a hobby.

I can't agree.  I never heard anyone mention that they thought the hobby was shrinking or threatened, whether a little or alarmingly, until 1970.  Since the hobby is about 120 years old, give or take, that would mean 70 good long years, or most of its lifetime, without fear.

When did the first real naysayers pop up?  When the old Lionel Corporation handed the keys to MPC/Fundimensions and the business moved out of NYC/Jersey.

We're now 50 some years past that point though and it's still not dead.  So, it's not going anywhere.

There's no need to worry about when to turn out the lights, and there won't be anytime soon.

Good video Chris.  Thanks for putting it together.

Mike

@Junior posted:

Nice...but incomplete. You need a couple flat cars behind it.....one for the bun, one for mustard and one for fluorescent green relish! 🤣

That's in my plans.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I abhor fantasy engines.

OK, maybe not...

As I’m sure you know, John, that is not a fantasy scheme - it really exists. It is, however, a clear example of a really bad driver who ended up on the RR tracks - I’m sure his (or her) excuse will be “my GPS told me to turn there”

(innocent look)

Mitch

Dave,

Nice video and you have made some good observations.  However, I would respectfully say that I must disagree, and that you have perhaps painted with too narrow a brush.

Your title is :"The End of Our Hobby?

I guess the question is:  What do you mean by "Our Hobby?

If by Hobby you mean the hobby of constructing and running totally realistic, intricately detailed, historically correct locomotives and cars, then I think you are right.    But, that is only a subset of the hobby of O Gauge or HO Gauge trains.  The vast majority of folks who have an O Gauge or other layout don't give a hoot about any of that.   (I certainly don't.)   Why?

Well, because the large majority of folks who love O and HO fell in love with it as kids, when they got a totally unrealistic starter set, with basic locomotives and cars, and played with them for several years, and then built on the hobby from there.   Many of them still have their original sets!    I got started in O Gauge just three years ago, only because I had a big HO layout I built when I was a kid,  and wanted to do something for the grandkids with bigger size locos and cars.   

Two of my grandsons love my layout, and they for sure don't care what fine print in on the sides of the cars and engines, or whether they are realistic or not.

I think that the fantasy theme that has been growing for years has greatly expanded the number of young and old people who have gotten into O Gauge railroading, and this may have been kicked off by the Polar Express movie.     In other words, the hobby has expanded to be more centered on pure fun, and not strict realism.     For me, "Our Hobby" means O Gauge railroading, . . . not hand- painting eyeballs on uniform correct conductor figures, counting bolts, worrying about realistic decals, or fussing over the shape of the cow-catcher and the number of steps in the side ladders.   All of that gives me a migraine.

Like it or not, the Fantasy themes have kept the Hobby alive, expanded its size, and given manufacturers the income they have needed to stay in business, including the incorporation of the great advances in technology and computer chips.

In short, the definition of "Our Hobby" has grown much broader than period correct and realistic products. 

Thanks,

Mannyrock

Hobbyists who are concerned about "the end of our hobby" because the current prices of top of the line trains are pricey (that is, too pricey for them) may be encouraged by the offers of relatively low cost yet functional, unsophisticated, and reliable trains offered by Menards.

The company found a need and filled it -- all to the good of hobby for those who seek a way to enjoy the world's greatest hobby with affordable trains.  Once started, they may "move up" to higher cost trains that capture their interest, imagination, and checkbook.

Mike M.

"Oh, I wish I were an Oscar Meyer Frank" just doesn't sing well.  Do they pass our Frankie whistles?  This must be a sign of the end of something! Oh, the humanity!

Here is one in G gauge.

@Mannyrock posted:

Dave,

Nice video and you have made some good observations.  However, I would respectfully say that I must disagree, and that you have perhaps painted with too narrow a brush.

Your title is :"The End of Our Hobby?

I guess the question is:  What do you mean by "Our Hobby?

If by Hobby you mean the hobby of constructing and running totally realistic, intricately detailed, historically correct locomotives and cars, then I think you are right.    But, that is only a subset of the hobby of O Gauge or HO Gauge trains.  The vast majority of folks who have an O Gauge or other layout don't give a hoot about any of that.   (I certainly don't.)   Why?

Well, because the large majority of folks who love O and HO fell in love with it as kids, when they got a totally unrealistic starter set, with basic locomotives and cars, and played with them for several years, and then built on the hobby from there.   Many of them still have their original sets!    I got started in O Gauge just three years ago, only because I had a big HO layout I built when I was a kid,  and wanted to do something for the grandkids with bigger size locos and cars.   

Two of my grandsons love my layout, and they for sure don't care what fine print in on the sides of the cars and engines, or whether they are realistic or not.

I think that the fantasy theme that has been growing for years has greatly expanded the number of young and old people who have gotten into O Gauge railroading, and this may have been kicked off by the Polar Express movie.     In other words, the hobby has expanded to be more centered on pure fun, and not strict realism.     For me, "Our Hobby" means O Gauge railroading, . . . not hand- painting eyeballs on uniform correct conductor figures, counting bolts, worrying about realistic decals, or fussing over the shape of the cow-catcher and the number of steps in the side ladders.   All of that gives me a migraine.

Like it or not, the Fantasy themes have kept the Hobby alive, expanded its size, and given manufacturers the income they have needed to stay in business, including the incorporation of the great advances in technology and computer chips.

In short, the definition of "Our Hobby" has grown much broader than period correct and realistic products.

Thanks,

Mannyrock

It’s satirical. 🤣

Staying on track, fantasy engines started when the first kid painted out Lionel Lines and added a decal of their favorite road.  Raise your hand if you are that kid.  One of my favorite engines  is my Weaver painted Erie Lackawanna Alco C630.   I added Electric RR to this 30 year old machine a couple of years ago.     

Fantasy schemes running on railroad track with 3-rails.  That seems to make perfect sense.  Really entertaining video! Thanks Chris!

@Former Member posted:

Fantasy schemes running on railroad track with 3-rails.  That seems to make perfect sense.  Really entertaining video! Thanks Chris!

Bolded just in case anyone missed the humor.

@Cmontagna posted:

It’s satirical. 🤣

Bigger question Chris, why did he call you Dave?

Chris,

Loved the video and your commentary on a curious topic. Love the terrific cinematography too!

I read every post here but never saw mention of the fantasy electronics many have or many aspire to have. If, when I was 12, my post-war set (which I still have) could have been run from my fantasy Dick Tracy watch, I would have head over heels.

Fast forward to contemporary times. I have been fortunate enough to afford modern locomotives and the attendant TeeWees and WeeWees . Those are things my 11-year-old twin boys can relate to. They come here and run straight for the iPad or the CAB1 controller. OK, to be sure, they are on the cusp of ditching the grandparents for girls, friends, social pressures of these time, but I'd hazard that when they have settled down and feel the need to return to an authentically enjoyable hobby recalled from their childhood. A hobby which has become totally immersed in devices and apps......well, let's hope they have that moment!! I certainly did.

My Dad's hobby was fixing pipe organs. Now there's a non-starter!!

Great video! Your comedic timing is very good.

@Cmontagna posted:

It's been happening more and more and I think it's time to call it out for what it is, the end of model railroading.

PS - Be sure to watch until the end.

As always - Enjoy!

Chris, I thought about this and truthfully the hobby is doing fine. Yes the big crowds and the trains store everywhere is gone. But the secondary market is thriving and stores that only sell used or never run are popping up everywhere; an example of this was I discovered a small store in Largo that sells every gauge at decent prices. I also had a conversation about two years back with the publisher of this forum/magazine. After I spoke to him I realized while the hobby has changed and gotten smaller it still chugs along with a healthy heartbeat.

Terrific video, as usual, Chris.  And excellent points, made with humor and insight.

I have always thought that the case could be made that almost all of model railroading is fantasy.  It is quite uncommon for the focus to be on absolutely accurate reproductions of a loco/rolling stock,  or a railroad specific location and time.  A classic example from 50 years ago is John Allen's Gorre and Daphetid. From the name to the implementation, it's all a fantasy.  Beautiful and admirable, but a fantasy.  And considered an iconic moment in model railroading history.

  Unless you are creating museum quality replicas of railroad equipment,  and/or times and places in railroading history, you are engaging in a fantasy activity of some sort.  Not that there's anything wrong with that .

@Former Member posted:

Fantasy schemes running on railroad track with 3-rails.  That seems to make perfect sense.  Really entertaining video! Thanks Chris!

EXACTLY! Thanks for watching!

@ThatGuy posted:

Chris, I thought about this and truthfully the hobby is doing fine. Yes the big crowds and the trains store everywhere is gone. But the secondary market is thriving and stores that only sell used or never run are popping up everywhere; an example of this was I discovered a small store in Largo that sells every gauge at decent prices. I also had a conversation about two years back with the publisher of this forum/magazine. After I spoke to him I realized while the hobby has changed and gotten smaller it still chugs along with a healthy heartbeat.

I completely agree!

@Landsteiner posted:

Terrific video, as usual, Chris.  And excellent points, made with humor and insight.

I have always thought that the case could be made that almost all of model railroading is fantasy.  It is quite uncommon for the focus to be on absolutely accurate reproductions of a loco/rolling stock,  or a railroad specific location and time.  A classic example from 50 years ago is John Allen's Gorre and Daphetid. From the name to the implementation, it's all a fantasy.  Beautiful and admirable, but a fantasy.  And considered an iconic moment in model railroading history.

  Unless you are creating museum quality replicas of railroad equipment,  and/or times and places in railroading history, you are engaging in a fantasy activity of some sort.  Not that there's anything wrong with that .

Great points! It's the modeler's vision that creates the scene, by definition I think that makes it all fantasy. It's about having fun and enjoying this hobby! I'm glad you enjoyed this one.

Fantasy schemes sell so someone likes them. It's the nitpickers that hurt the hobby.

@Jim 1939 posted:

Fantasy schemes sell so someone likes them. It's the nitpickers that hurt the hobby.

Amen to that, when Lionel came out with the bilevel cars in New York Central, Pennsylvania, railroad as fantasy paints schemes, some peoples heads exploded. I purchased the New York central cars along with the engine that I just picked up. These are not only pretty but gorgeous. But they never happened. People seem to forget these are toys.

@Jim 1939 posted:

Fantasy schemes sell so someone likes them. It's the nitpickers that hurt the hobby.

Well here’s where I will vary…. If an item is sold as a prototypical then the manufacturer should produce an item as close to the real thing to the best of their ability. There is a time and place for “nitpicking “. Fantasy schemes aren’t one of them but accuracy on a prototype is.

"Dave" ?  "Chris" ?    They're pretty interchangeable aren't they?

Mannyrock

That "diverse" collection at the end was pretty funny.

One good thing with those NS engines is that the manufacturers almost aways get the colors right. 

I hate fantasy schemes.    In all seriousness, I plan on repainting a Silver G into the Amtrak scheme.

Chris' video was so strongly tongue in cheek that my mouth hurts!

Another FAN-tastic video, Chris.

Thank you!