The ERR Mini Commander Replacement Project

John, is this akin to the mini commander ACC/HC device?  Can this be used in an operating accessory such as a milk car?

Blake

That's the idea, but we're still working out the details.  I just want to kick around what we can do fairly easily to replace some of the functionality we had with the old ERR MC products.  Without adding a uP, I think stuff like the voltage control and timed activation that the MC had may be difficult.  It should be easy to do some simple stuff and accommodate some command control applications.  My sense is significant work went into the software of the MC-ACC, not sure I want to try to duplicate all of that at this juncture.  I'm trying to leverage the capability of the R2LC board and add some functionality so it can be used.

Here would be my wish list:

• 2 output for 2 couplers
• 1 output for action (dump/throw /etc)
• 2 outputs for lights (optional)

John Graser posted:

Here would be my wish list:

• 2 output for 2 couplers
• 1 output for action (dump/throw /etc)
• 2 outputs for lights (optional)

This is what I would like to see if possible.  

gunrunnerjohn posted:

That's the idea, but we're still working out the details.  I just want to kick around what we can do fairly easily to replace some of the functionality we had with the old ERR MC products.  Without adding a uP, I think stuff like the voltage control and timed activation that the MC had may be difficult.  It should be easy to do some simple stuff and accommodate some command control applications.  My sense is significant work went into the software of the MC-ACC, not sure I want to try to duplicate all of that at this juncture.  I'm trying to leverage the capability of the R2LC board and add some functionality so it can be used.

Sounds like a plan John!!

Blake Morris posted:

gunrunnerjohn posted:

That's the idea, but we're still working out the details.  I just want to kick around what we can do fairly easily to replace some of the functionality we had with the old ERR MC products.  Without adding a uP, I think stuff like the voltage control and timed activation that the MC had may be difficult.  It should be easy to do some simple stuff and accommodate some command control applications.  My sense is significant work went into the software of the MC-ACC, not sure I want to try to duplicate all of that at this juncture.  I'm trying to leverage the capability of the R2LC board and add some functionality so it can be used.

Sounds like a plan John!!

Just some simple remote control action.

John Graser posted:

Here would be my wish list:

• 2 output for 2 couplers
• 1 output for action (dump/throw /etc)
• 2 outputs for lights (optional)

I figure that all the R2LC outputs will be available, so those are all accommodated.  Any functions we tie to some of the R2LC outputs will be in parallel with their primary function.  For instance, the couplers might be driving a latching relay, but you'll also be able to use them for couplers.

The one tricky part is having a timed output like the MC, that requires we decode the serial data and have soft configuration.  All possible, but beyond the scope of what I plan on starting with. 

One trick is keeping the connections to the board compact enough to get all the stuff on and off the board!

Can you make it  work in a dummy engine for TMCC control, lights, couplers, sound and maybe smoke?

A F3B/F7B may only need smoke and sound?

What are the capabilities of an R2LC/R4LC?  Is there a datasheet or specification available?

Jan

CBS072 posted:

Can you make it  work in a dummy engine for TMCC control, lights, couplers, sound and maybe smoke?

A F3B/F7B may only need smoke and sound?

I’ll second this.  Question, you won’t be stepping on anyone’s patent with this?

CBS072 posted:

Can you make it  work in a dummy engine for TMCC control, lights, couplers, sound and maybe smoke?

A F3B/F7B may only need smoke and sound?

FWIW, this is the application I'd be most interested in. I've never used the coupler function on the Mini Commanders I have installed but the ability to use one of the HC outputs for smoke has been important. 

Of course sound capability is kind of the Holy Grail; I've had to use ERR's little dummy engine board for that. Pardon my ignorance GRJ but I don't know whether the components you are thinking of using allow for sound.

ERR's Softset programing was very convenient but I could live without that.

CBS072 posted:

Can you make it  work in a dummy engine for TMCC control, lights, couplers, sound and maybe smoke?

A F3B/F7B may only need smoke and sound?

Sure, it'll have all the capabilities of the R2(4)LC, which includes all of those things.

Jan posted:

What are the capabilities of an R2LC/R4LC?  Is there a datasheet or specification available?

None that I'm aware of, but the capabilities are pretty well known.

superwarp1 posted:

I’ll second this.  Question, you won’t be stepping on anyone’s patent with this?

Nope, we're using the Lionel TMCC receiver.

Hancock52 posted:

FWIW, this is the application I'd be most interested in. I've never used the coupler function on the Mini Commanders I have installed but the ability to use one of the HC outputs for smoke has been important. 

Of course sound capability is kind of the Holy Grail; I've had to use ERR's little dummy engine board for that. Pardon my ignorance GRJ but I don't know whether the components you are thinking of using allow for sound.

ERR's Softset programing was very convenient but I could live without that.

Sound as far as this module is concerned it simply having the capability of feeding a standard sound board, that just takes power and serial data.  If a standard TMCC locomotive could do it, we should be able to support it, the R2(4)LC is where all that happens.  What I'm visualizing is simply a motor driver (H-Bridge) chip, a latching circuit of some kind to leverage the many times unused coupler outputs, and perhaps a couple components to allow direct LED attachment for the light outputs.

What I'm really fishing for here is if there is some other good ideas of things we might add that I haven't thought of.  Obviously, one of the requirements is that they don't take a lot of parts to do as we're also trying to keep the package pretty compact.

I've prototyped out a replacement for the Mini-Commander ACC or HC, using an Arduino module and an HC-12 radio receiver.

It doesn't receive TMCC signals directly; a single HC-12 connected to the command base broadcasts the TMCC commands to all the others. So it's not a drop-in replacement for the MC.  But it ran about $12 in parts; less if I hadn't used a commercial power supply module.

Of course, in addition to driving triacs like the MC, it could be programmed to drive servos or any other circuitry you wanted.  And you could program it for as complex behavior as you like... just need to think of some applications!

Hope this is on topic for the mini commander. As far as operating cars are concerned this a nice way to control them. I always wondered if it could be actuated in some fashion with a Bell/horn button like the signalman in an operating caboose. 

http://www.jcstudiosinc.com/BlogShowThread?id=1277

I wish to put together a railsounds equipped boxcar and need tmcc interface.This sounds like the component

to do the job. I'm in for one or two.

It would be nice if this could drive small motorized units like the MC2. 

Could you add functions to control ground lights and board lights along with the forward and revers.   Would this also be compatible with ERR sound boards?

Professor Chaos posted:

I've prototyped out a replacement for the Mini-Commander ACC or HC, using an Arduino module and an HC-12 radio receiver.

It doesn't receive TMCC signals directly; a single HC-12 connected to the command base broadcasts the TMCC commands to all the others. So it's not a drop-in replacement for the MC.  But it ran about $12 in parts; less if I hadn't used a commercial power supply module.

Of course, in addition to driving triacs like the MC, it could be programmed to drive servos or any other circuitry you wanted.  And you could program it for as complex behavior as you like... just need to think of some applications!

This has possibilities, I'm not wedded to the R2LC approach, it just seemed to be a simple means to an end. 

I think one key item is to try to keep it compact.  I know you can buy the Arduino processors as a separate part, so perhaps building a board around the chip would keep it to a reasonable size.  For most of our applications, you wouldn't need all the extra stuff that comes on these boards.  Of course, making a sandwich with something like an Arduino Nano might be an option as well.

The one downside of this approach is it requires a lot of up-front work to get started, we would have to decode the serial data and sort out all the timing issues of the TMCC protocol.  I've done a bit of that, but there's a lot more to do for this to be useful.

John, I see that you want to keep this compact, hope it would be small enough to fit in S gauge locomotives such as the GPs

Ray

I commend John for the effort he's putting into developing this new board, and maybe I'm unaware of something significant here, but why does John need to do this? Why doesn't or won't 3rd Rail make a mini commander available just as ERR did when they were in business? Why should John have to, as the expression goes, "reinvent the wheel" on this? Also, with John doing this, will he need to jump though hoops with Lionel to get permission to sell this board to consumers once he develops it?

I think it's likely Lionel dragging their feet in licensing the MC products.  Since my project would be using an off-the-shelf R2LC, there should be no licensing issues.  Also, Scott at 3rd rail may not see enough profit in the MC line to make business sense, that would have to be a question for him.

not sure if this would effect the size of the board, but could this be a solderless board. or at least have the output wires already attached and color coded for ease of instalation for dummies. 

if this gets built I am all in. wish I would have gotten some from err when they still made them. just always thought they would be there. 

Well, the solderless aspect runs up the cost of the board, someone has to do the soldering.  Adding terminal strips increases the size as well.  If we use JST connectors like the ERR boards did, then you have to make the cable assemblies as well, all this increases the cost.

My concern is if this gets too fancy, the cost and effort to make it will result in it being too expensive to consider for many projects.  We already have to obtain an R2LC for it out of the gate.

I would like to have a single output that is turned on and off by AUX 2 that would have a half-wave positive output for forward and a half-wave negative output for reverse. This single output could be used for front headlights, rear headlights, dual-color marker lights, and cab lights. I have made several modules to do this
using relays (would be better if solid state). It only requires a single wire to be run from a tender to a locomotive or a dummy to perform all four functions.

You can program a cab light and the smoke output will toggle with direction, that would to the function you're looking for.  The great part is you can drive the headlights and directional markers from it.

Gents,

I have good news. Sunset Models / 3rd Rail has been approved to produce and sell the MiniCommander line of electronics. Of course we have to order these for production which can take several months to obtain. We will put them back up on our web site shortly. Those with current reservations for these will remain in our files for invoicing when the product becomes available.

Regards,

Scott Mann - ERR / Sunset Models / 3rd Rail

This is good news, John, takes one job off your shoulders

Ray

Very cool Scott, watch for in incoming order!

OOPS, I don't see a reservation link for those!

Mini Commander Reservations Now Being Accepted.

http://www.3rdrail.com/reservation.htm

If you don't see them at the top, hit the reload button on your browser.

Scott Mann

Scott, how do you specify the code version for the Mini Commander II?  There are three software loads, one with couplers, one with incandescent lights, and one with one incandescent light and a smoke control.  In the old ERR listings, they had three entries for the three different options.

I'm very happy to see you doing this.

I love great news. Thanks John for starting this topic, and thanks Scott for taking care of business to get these coming.

Yes, good news.

Great news, but still would like to have more of the Dummy Engine boards, even at a higher price.

John,

Learning... OK I will break out the 3 software options on the Mini II. 

Scott

No worries Scott, we're here to assist.

Will there be the Motor Driver option for the Mini Commander-1.

We used it in some American Models and other conversions where nothing else would fit.. 

Ken programed them on request.

Carl

I remember that thing I did use it once.  I believe they labeled them the Mini Commander ENG.