The New 0-4-0

Judging just from the Lionel catalog images it is without question the Lionel tooling being shown. It would be nice if they added some detail to this model to bring it up to snuff with the 0-6-0 B6sb and of course MTH's tooling of this model. I was hoping this would have been one of the tooling acquisitions Lionel made from MTH, but so far that doesn't appear to be the case unfortunately. Maybe this latest Lionel 0-4-0 was already in the works before the tooling acquisitions were made and that one is still to come. I would love to know.

Well apparently my own research stinks haha I didn't know Lionel had tooling. I have an old conventional 0-4-0 but I didn't think anything could even fit in it as far as boards.

I'm almost tempted to get it and then weather it as the old beater they keep around because it runs so good. When I look around where I live and work, there's always some super simple piece of equipment that is ugly as can be but is kept around because it works so darn good. My poor lawn mower comes to mind.

Do you know if the old Lionel version lost power on switches?

@BillYo414 posted:

The new 0-4-0 from the catalog would be perfect for the urban industrial siding I want to do but I wanted to get some experienced input on this engine. Searching around the interwebs has me doubting the quality.

1. Is this tooling lacking some real detailing?
2. Can I expect this engine to creep along because it's Legacy?
3. Is that wireless drawbar going to cause trouble through switches?

I've been trying to do my own research online and I'm getting confused on whether this is MTH tooling or K-Line tooling. It sounds to me like this is very old K-Line tooling and the MTH A5 was a nicer locomotive with more added details. Anybody know what tooling we're looking at and whether it might make a nice locomotive?

I suspect this is the K-Line tooling.  FWIW, I don't think the K-Line tooling is all that bad, my biggest issue is I believe they're a bit oversized.   This model doesn't have the wireless drawbar, they common the rollers for better performance through the switches.

It should have good low speed performance with Legacy.  Gosh, even my little TMCC model with the Cruise Commander M has good low speed performance, see below.  I'm sure the Legacy model will be at least equal and most likely better.

I wish they would update it slightly with some more separately applied details so it's more consistent with the rest of Lionel's scale offerings. I really want one, but the MTH version is much more detailed. I was thinking it originated from K-Line but wasn't sure.

Agreed with John, I just wish there was some different road names, oh well.

they’ve done this in the LC line and I’ve been tempted by it but hate to have another remote other than the cab-2. If you check some sources Ryan stated this was originally going to be LC 2.0 but last minute decided to make it Legacy. And they are going to add more details to the tooling to make it just that much better.

I have finally seen a LC version at the club someone got and I was actually quite impressed so this should be a home run

So, they are going to add detail to this model for this release?

@Randy_B posted:

So, they are going to add detail to this model for this release?

Its getting complete valve gear. The K-Line version was missing most of the valve gear. I doubt the cast on detail will get replaced with separately applied detail.

Look at an MTH A5 and Lionchief A5 and see the difference in the valve gear.

Pete

Given that they probably are going to use the K-Line tooling, it's not clear exactly what extra added detail they could use.  However, I think I still want one, my two K-Line models still have the puffer, and I'd really like fan driven smoke.  I mean to try to stuff a fan smoke unit into one of the K-Line models, but I can't see any way to fit the electronics in to manage it properly...

I was curious if this model will have a wire or not. There seems to be conflicting messaging.

It says Command Control on one page and Legacy on the other also.

@SuperChief posted:

I was curious if this model will have a wire or not. There seems to be conflicting messaging.

Some engines have both. The wired tether just has connections from the tender pickups and chassis. Some of us do that to other wireless tether engines that stall on switches.

Pete

@SuperChief posted:

I was curious if this model will have a wire or not. There seems to be conflicting messaging.

The miracle of copy & paste, I'll bet money and give you odds that they won't try to use the wireless drawbar in this one.  With the roller spacing, it would stop on ever switch!

Here's the differences in the valve gear, MTH vs K-Line, there are several missing parts in the K-Line models.  Hmm...  I wonder if you could retrofit the MTH valve gear to the K-Line locomotives...

MTH A-5 Valve Gear

K-Line A-5 Valve Gear

The LC version is a good puller...

@Norton posted:

Some engines have both. The wired tether just has connections from the tender pickups and chassis. Some of us do that to other wireless tether engines that stall on switches.

True, but not from the factory.   Since the already delivered B-6 models all had wired tethers for the same reason, I can't imagine why they'd try to use the IR wireless in an even smaller locomotive!  Both of my Lionel Atlantic's got an extra wire for reliability, neither could make one full lap without stopping somewhere.  I've used the extra wire even on much larger locomotives that only have two rollers for the same reason.

I would imagine they would do the same as they have done on the B6sb.

The conflicting info confused me so I decided to just ask plainly as if I knew nothing haha I also thought that the b6's had the wire for electrical pickup so surely this smaller engine would need it as well. It's been a confusing time in my life

@gunrunnerjohn's and @taycotrains videos makes me want one. It would be perfect for a tight siding off the mainline and the B&O had lines through the area my layout is based in. I think I'm going to go for it.

I would like to get one, either the B&O or PRR. I will wait and see what they do with them. Maybe Ryan and Dave will show their work on this one in one of their videos soon.

@taycotrains posted:

The LC version is a good puller...

Just curious, where did you get the Arkema tank cars?

This engine is receiving additional detailing compared to it's LC+ version we did a few years ago. It'll be much more on the level of Legacy detail. I'll share pictures when we get the updated design done.

@Dave Olson posted:

This engine is receiving additional detailing compared to it's LC+ version we did a few years ago. It'll be much more on the level of Legacy detail. I'll share pictures when we get the updated design done.

That's great Dave, now I know I want one!

This will have a wired drawbar. Looks like a catalog error with the wireless drawbar callout.

This is too small of an engine to not have a wired drawbar. Would stall in a lot of switches!

Thanks so much for the info, Dave! I think it will be a nice addition to the lineup with some attention.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

The miracle of copy & paste, I'll bet money and give you odds that they won't try to use the wireless drawbar in this one.  With the roller spacing, it would stop on ever switch!

Here's the differences in the valve gear, MTH vs K-Line, there are several missing parts in the K-Line models.  Hmm...  I wonder if you could retrofit the MTH valve gear to the K-Line locomotives...

MTH A-5 Valve Gear

K-Line A-5 Valve Gear

The primary missing item is the eccentric crank and rod. Likely one from any small engine might work.

Pete

Well darn it @Dave Olson now I have to buy one haha

That does tip the scale for me though. I'm in.

Same here! I think it's a smart investment to update it since it's something everyone could use on any layout.

Yeah! It would be a cool stand-in on an 0-36 circle under the Christmas tree even. @RandyB

Here is the current standard for detail in the 0-4-0 range:

Make it happen!

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Just curious, where did you get the Arkema tank cars?

Those are yours...I took that video when the previous owner still owned them.

@BillYo414 posted:

Well darn it @Dave Olson now I have to buy one haha

That does tip the scale for me though. I'm in.

Bill, I was thinking the same thing.  I had no intention on buying one, but like you the B&O is screaming to be bought.

Dave Olson, thank you so much for the clarifications!!!!

@BillYo414 posted:

Yeah! It would be a cool stand-in on an 0-36 circle under the Christmas tree even. @RandyB

I have the conventional North Pole Express 0-4-0 from 2012, I believe.  We ran it all day at the Zelienople ‘Miracle on Main’ Christmas layout.  This engine would be great running Legacy.

@taycotrains posted:

Those are yours...I took that video when the previous owner still owned them.

I wondered, I didn't think many of those were around!   I was shocked to see that big bunch in one place.

@RandyB Is that the MTH version? I would be very happy with that. I like the grab iron over the front top of the boiler and the details under the cab below the number and window. An opening roof hatch would be awesome.

@Mark Boyce right? It would fit very well into what we're working on with our layouts.

Based on my space limitations, I really like these smaller steamers. The Lion Chief Plus 0-6-0 has been a work horse for me over the past year.

I can see a B&O 0-4-0 landing on my pre-order list.

Yep, that is the MTH Premier version from 2015 I believe. I hadn't paid much attention to MTH models before knowing I probably wouldn't purchase them over Lionel. But now that Lionel has acquired some of their stuff I circled back and took a closer look. I was blinded by brand loyalty a bit because they made some really nice stuff! I may look for a few items from them at some point.

Wow, I to want the B&O model of this steamer, I hope Dave Olson will chime in and share the details about this 0-4-0 model. I would like to know if it has a backwards can motor?, and if it’s going to have more detailing? Sometimes the catalog pictures are deceiving, the actual product is much better looking and has more details. Great thread. Happy Railroading Everyone