Thinking of buying an MTH small locomotive

You can us a number of features in conventional control for PS/3, I refer you to the MTH 44-Ton User's Manual.  Start on page #8 for conventional control using a standard transformer.  Note that the transformer must have both bell and horn controls to use most of these features.

No battery, PS/3 uses built-in supercaps.

I don't believe you can manually trigger individual crew talk sequences, but you do have access to the PFA mode that goes through a pre-programmed sequence.  The PFA operation is described on page 10 of the manual above.

John:

Thanks so much for the speedy and informative reply!

One other question: Since I will be controlling the locomotive using my Legacy controller:

Power will be provided to the track using my PWC ZW with 135 Watt bricks attached and the track where the locomotive will run will have voltage manually controlled by the Cab 2, should I expect the horn and bell buttons on the Cab 2 to operate the horn and bell on the locomotive and also be able to activate the features as described on page 9 of the manual you referenced?

Thanks!

Best regards,

Stan

Yes, the ZW-Controller being operated in TMCC mode will simulate the whistle and bell buttons from the CAB2.

Thanks again!

Yes to bell and whistle, but typically the Lionel ZW and PM can't respond fast enought to operate the functions like coupler or PFA.  Too much of a delay inbetween strokes.  G

Might have to use the transformer handles for those functions.

@GGG posted:

Yes to bell and whistle, but typically the Lionel ZW and PM can't respond fast enought to operate the functions like coupler or PFA.  Too much of a delay inbetween strokes.  G

GGG,

The original PowerMasters had a delay issue.  All of the newer ones, i.e. TPC's marketed by Lionel and not IC Controls (unless Lou Kovach updated yours in the field), and Legacy PowerMasters, have what's called "Fast Horn" and "Fast Bell", and also several other PS2.0/3.0 Specific functions:

If I recall, the ZW-C's and ZW-L also have these features.

Mike

Still sounds promising! Thanks to all for your help.

Well, I feel like I just "crossed over" into new uncharted territory!

Over 71 years of exclusively Lionel locomotives now gives way to new horizons:

I ordered the MTH 20-20775-1 Amtrak 44 Ton Diesel w/ PS3 from Nicholas Smith today.

@stangtrain posted:

Well, I feel like I just "crossed over" into new uncharted territory!

Over 71 years of exclusively Lionel locomotives now gives way to new horizons:

I ordered the MTH 20-20775-1 Amtrak 44 Ton Diesel w/ PS3 from Nicholas Smith today.

Congratulations! From my experience with MTH 44-tonners, I expect you will like this locomotive. Hope you enjoy it. I started with Lionel 72 years ago...

MELGAR

Nice little engine. I have two New Haven.

@stangtrain posted:

Well, I feel like I just "crossed over" into new uncharted territory!

Over 71 years of exclusively Lionel locomotives now gives way to new horizons:

I ordered the MTH 20-20775-1 Amtrak 44 Ton Diesel w/ PS3 from Nicholas Smith today.

Congratulations! I hope you enjoy it. I’m glad you “crossed over”

@stangtrain posted:

Well, I feel like I just "crossed over" into new uncharted territory!

Over 71 years of exclusively Lionel locomotives now gives way to new horizons:

I ordered the MTH 20-20775-1 Amtrak 44 Ton Diesel w/ PS3 from Nicholas Smith today.

Enjoy your new engine.

Might I suggest adding a DCS commander to your layout? It gives you access to the basic DCS functions directly through a small remote control. I added one recently and it works great.

RSJB18: Thanks for the suggestion of the DCS Remote Commander.

I had looked into this but since I will be using my Legacy controller to raise and lower track voltage for conventional running and also be able to use the horn and bell functions, I did not think much would be added using controller. I will not be running any other locomotive on the same loop of track, so conventional seems okay so far. Of course I haven't received the locomotive yet, so it is good to know this is an option.

I was wondering though how to connect wires to and from the transmitter without using the connectors from noted MTH devices in the instructions. Are there adaptors to make wiring easier? Without having one in front of me, it is hard to tell what would be involved.

Thanks!

Stan

Stan- I was equally perplexed when I bought mine but they can be wired in "passive mode", which simply means take a pair of wires from the terminals to your track buss.

The RC will work like a charm.

They were designed for RTR sets so the power ran through the RC from a Z750 to the track.

They work just fine in passive and don't affect Legacy signal as far as I know.

I wired mine through a switch so I can turn it off when not needed.

One additional note, the remote uses an infrared signal direct line of sight between the remote and receiver is required.

Bob

They work in passive mode, but for maximum track signal strength, you need a 22uh inductor on the transformer feed to the track so it doesn't dilute the DCS signal.  Obviously, that choke has to be able to handle the current for the running train and cars.

Great info John. My small layout doesn't loose signal. I'm sure larger ones can have issues.

@RSJB18 posted:

Enjoy your new engine.

Might I suggest adding a DCS commander to your layout? It gives you access to the basic DCS functions directly through a small remote control. I added one recently and it works great.

Bob,

I am running my PS3 subway set with a KW transformer (and external bell/horn button) using the commands described in the manual for the PS3 functions.  Do you think a DCS Remote commander would make that easier using my KW?

If so, where did you get yours?

Thanks,

John

@Craftech posted:

Bob,

I am running my PS3 subway set with a KW transformer (and external bell/horn button) using the commands described in the manual for the PS3 functions.  Do you think a DCS Remote commander would make that easier using my KW?

If so, where did you get yours?

Thanks,

John

I run a KW. Works just fine. I bought mine from a forum member.

@RSJB18 posted:

I run a KW. Works just fine. I bought mine from a forum member.

Thanks Bob,

I'll keep my eye out for one.

John

Being very new to MTH and DCS I have no clue what "passive mode" means and how it relates to the DCS Remote Commander.

Please describe how to wire / connect this device to layout in "passive mode".

I currently have wires from three transformers protected by fast acting circuit breakers with TVSs, connected to terminal blocks then to tracks for each of three loops on my layout.

The new MTH locomotive will likely only run on one loop of track.

Thanks!!

Passive mode is a great idea if you have an existing layout.   Addition of the DCS signal to a layout without a complete rewire of track circuits.

I found my answer about connecting the DCS Remore Commander in passive mode here:

https://ogrforum.com/...nder-in-passive-mode

I just ordered a DCS Commander set from forum sponsor Mario's Trains. I suppose it will provide better control and functions than using my Cab2 in conventional. The locomotive should arrive Friday 10/15 and the Commander next week. I plan to use it in "passive mode" as described in Barry Broskowitz's  post referenced to above. If needed I will follow John's advice to install a 22uh inductor on the transformer feed to the track.

Thanks to all.

Pictures and maybe a video to come...

@stangtrain posted:

I just ordered a DCS [Remote] Commander set from forum sponsor Mario's Trains. I suppose it will provide better control and functions that using my Cab2 in conventional. The locomotive should arrive tomorrow and the Commander next week. If needed I will follow John's advice install a 22uh inductor on the transformer feed to the track.

Thanks to all.

Pictures and maybe a video to come...

I did the same yesterday.  Should arrive Friday.

John

Here it is and hard at work already!

The locomotive runs nicely in conventional. I expect the DCS Remote Commander to arrive in about a week or so.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

They work in passive mode, but for maximum track signal strength, you need a 22uh inductor on the transformer feed to the track so it doesn't dilute the DCS signal.  Obviously, that choke has to be able to handle the current for the running train and cars.

John:

Can you let me know what 22uh inductor to get for this application and where to order. Transformer to track is a Lionel 135 Watt brick (7.5 Amp) controlled by a Legacy Power Master.

Thanks!

Stan

Stan, I am pretty sure I have some extras Of ones i bought from GRJ but am out of town until Saturday. If you want a few, email me your address.

Follow-Up.

I can't get it to work.  Anyone from this thread able to help here:

https://ogrforum.com/...=lastReply#lastReply

Thanks,

John

@Craftech posted:

I can't get it to work.  Anyone from this thread able to help here:

https://ogrforum.com/...=lastReply#lastReply

I've told you several times in that thread what you have to do!  I'm not sure how I can be any clearer.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I've told you several times in that thread what you have to do!  I'm not sure how I can be any clearer.

If a DCS system reset is different than what they said in the manual forgive me.  You responded at a point where I couldn't even do a Conventional reset.  Once I was able to do that I thought perhaps the need for a DCS reset wasn't necessary.

Now that I know it is,  I will simply not mess with it until a point in time when the systems are more available for a reasonable cost.  The reason I and others bought this Remote Commander was because it was cheap.   I always appreciate your help John.

John

You just need to find someone with a full DCS system, once the engine is reset, it'll run fine on the DCS Remote Commander.

Now trying to get my DCS Remote Commander to work:

My MTH Amtrak 44 Ton 20-20775-1 Diesel w/ PS3  is new out of the box, so I assume it is set to "factory defaults" as described in the instructions.

I installed a 22uh inductor inline with the center rail power wire as suggested by GRJ. Transformer providing power to the track is a Lionel 135 Watt brick (7.5 Amp) controlled by a Legacy Power Master.

I connected the DCS Remote Commander in "passive mode" as described above.

When I power up the track that has power connections to the Remote Commander, the locomotive starts up in conventional mode and no responses from the DCS Remote Commander using the controller. The light does blink on the wired unit when buttons are pressed on the remote.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions!

I have a friend who has the full DCS system if for some reason the locomotive has to be reset.

The fact that it comes up in conventional mode with the DCS-RC connected suggests that you don't have a track signal, not that it needs resetting.  You do have the DCS-RC connected directly and it doesn't go through the choke, right?  Only the transformer should go through the choke.

Correct: The choke ONLY is inline with center rail power from the transformer to the track.

Wires from the controller are directly connected to the track where the locomotive in sitting.

Last question, is the red post connected to the center rail? Did you try on a bench with a short piece of track with ONLY the transformer and DCS-RC connected?  If not, try that.  If it still fails, I suspect the DCS-RC is broken.

John: I just set up a test track, connected transformer power with a choke in line with the center rail wire and connected red (center rail) and black wires from the track to the DCS-RC.

Same behavior - loco comes up in conventional and no response from DCS-RC commands, though the light on the unit blinks when signals sent.

From what you said above, it sounds like I need to send the unit back for replacement. I bought it new from a Forum Sponsor, unless you have another suggestion.

Thanks!!

The light just indicates that the remote commands are being sent to the DCS-RC, it doesn't say anything about the track signals.  It sure sounds like the DCS-RC is not working. However, it could be the locomotive as well, so I'd see if you can find someone with DCS to test the engine before you declare it to be the DCS-RC box.  Easy for me to determine, I have probably forty DCS engines, but only having one...

Great suggestion! I called my friend who runs MTH exclusively and made plans to go for a visit later this week and bring my new little 44 tonner for a run around his rather big layout.

I’ll report back after the test run takes place.