Three clanks of death = mth proto 1

1) Have it up-graded to DCS 2.0.

or

2) Have an Electric Rail Road licensed Lionel TMCC Cruise Commander installed kit installed. 

The 2 options from Hot Water will work. MTH sells a new Proto 3.0 Can forward and one of theem comes in a set.  My preference would be to upgrade the engine.

Wasn't there some means of correcting this short of full replacement?

Try the Proto 1 reset kit.   Includes a reset chip, chip puller, and battery.  Forget the battery....it may be too old to be of use.  Use the BCR....but you must wait about 60 seconds after applying 10 volts for it to fully charge.

Your info sez you're in Tampa.  Too bad....we (LHS-Michigan) provide the Proto 1.0 reset free of charge.  Maybe one of the shops in your area does the same???

Of course, dumping the PS1 for a PS2 system is a good idea, but not the least expensive at this point.  I'd try the reset chip first (and BCR).  THEN if that doesn't work, contact GGG here on the forum.....he did a F3 conversion for me.....EXCELLENT.

But there are several people on this forum who are also excellent in doing the conversions and in no way do I mean to minimize their expertise or service.

Don't give up yet.  Lots of help here....keep us posted!

KD

KD, that kit is what I was thinking of.  Sounds like your shop believes in customer service.

You should be able to get this serviced.  MTH had created a chip reset tool.

Well, of course....it's what we can/will do to help.  We only charge your undying gratitude....if it works.  And we only charge your undying gratitude, and understanding.....if it doesn't work.

But we want your trains to run, too, so we offer some $$ services in the event the 'obvious' doesn't work; PS1 to PSX is not one of them.....and that's why we've found people like GGG to help us put a smile on your face, and a working engine or your layout!!

KD

BTW...you didn't say...  Before the engine became a shelf queen, had it operated properly? 

If so, I think there's an excellent chance the reset kit would work.  Once a an original battery in a PS1 goes south....loses its charge....you're highly vulnerable the next time you apply voltage....especially exceeding 10 volts.  It is by now fairly well understood that with a PS1 system that has been dormant for an extensive (let's say >6 months?) amount of time, you should NOT apply any voltage to the engine without FIRST inserting a FULLY charged new battery, OR a BCR for which you would first allow a <10 volt charge be applied for the very first 60 seconds to charge the BCR.

How well does this work?  I have a Dealer Appreciation UP Big Boy (~1999) w/PS1 that sat in the box, unrun, untested until 2013.  I FIRST replaced the battery with a BCR, applied the <10 volt charge for a minute, then restarted the engine.  ABSOLUTELY PERFECT PERFORMANCE!!  It works.....yes...it...does!

Contact Ready to Roll Trains in Miami. In the past they have been big supporters of MTH. If they don't have the reset kit I'm sure some of the main dealers have it. Your chip is not damaged, only scrambled. After you reset the engine you reinstall your original chip. Once you do it the Proto 1 issues will all go away. The problem was not created by MTH, but by a company called QSI who made the sound and electronic reverse boards for MTH before Mike Wolf decided that he could do it all "in house." Only a few Premier engines had the problem. They include: the Shay, the J1e Hudson, the Santa Fe and L&N F3 units and the Big Boy. Change out all your Proto 1 engines to BCR and never look back. Simply charge the BCR for 60 seconds before you put the engine in forward. 

 There ya go!!!  Take the Tamiami Trail to happiness!!!

I have a friend with a lot of boxed PS1s, I sure hope he has a reset chip. I did mention it to him. I think he should get one while they are still around.

I have a reset kit that I can lend you if you'd like.  Send me an email to my email address (it's in my profile.)

Another thing to look at is the capacitors on the Proto board.  My dad still repairs computers at age 73 and found that a lot of late 90's early flat screen monitors had capacitors manufactured in China that failed due to faulty materials in the dielectric.  He started finding out that Proto boards have the same issue.  He's replaced several capacitors and has the locomotives run like new again. 

I'd still attempt the reset first, but just another thought. 

If reset does not work i have the proto one board out of the same cab forward as i installed a proto 2 upgrade kit in mine. Just let me know and I would be glad to sell it to you.

Dave

New battery and a reset chip will fix your choo choo up just fine. If you dont run DCS then dont spend the money to upgrade. Any MTH authorized service tech can reset your loco or you can buy the reset kit MTH  item number 50-1023

Look for any MTH Tech in your area as he will have one.  MTH issued the chips to everyone who went to and passed the school years before they made it a retail part.

Ready to roll is in Florida, but not sure where they are in relation to your home. Might be worth shipping to them. They sell a great deal of MTH products

JoeG

Joe...

That's why I suggested the Tamiami Trail.  AMF's personal info sez he's in Tampa.  R-T-R is in Miami.  The famous Tamiami Trail connects Tampa to Miami (Thus the name Tamiami).  Nice, famous, scenic road across southern Florida!

Straight E-W across the Everglades.  Not an interstate, but a very good road!

FWIW, always...

Lots of support for giving the reset chip first try. And Matt's recommendation is spot-on.  I run conventional.  I have more than a dozen PS1 engines....all with BCR's.  All run perfectly.  Hey, they're just like a breed of pets....they have their own quirks, care-and-feeding requirements,.....and loveable characteristics!!, among which is their secondary market price/value....especially if their only malady is the dreaded (but treatable) "THREE CLANKS OF DEATH"... 

But, that's just MHO, of course.

FWIW, do NOT try to remove the sound chip from the board without the PLCC removal tool.  Trying to pry it out will surely either damage the chip or crack the socket.  Then you need more than a reset.

The reset kit is still available, and every MTH tech has the reset chips to fix the boards.

While we are at, what is the proper voltage after charging a PS-1 9 volt battery?

I got my battery to read 10.01 volts on a digital volt meter.

Installed the battery in my PS-1 Crusader engine this morning and it works great.

Going to see if the old battery will charge up or not.

Lee Fritz

Why would you go with 4.10 when 4.30 is the current release?

I will check with them again and see what they say.

I mainly want to run a couple of PS-3 engines in addition to my PS-2 engines.

Lee Fritz

The only tester I have found for 8.4v NiCd/NiMH batteries is the ZTS Mini-9R, which costs around $50 with a soft case and a bit less without. I've been using one for several years. But be careful, I have seen some sellers offering that product number but showing a different unit that does not test 9v rechargeables. Here's a link to the ZTS website to see the correct product. 

ZTS

Hot Water is right.  I've got lots of MTH batteries that read perfect on a DMM, but under lead they don't do anything.  Don't chance it with MTH locomotives.  Replace that battery!

There is no reason to spend a lot of money on a battery tester.  If you use a 100-200MA 12V incandescent bulb and your voltmeter, you can do a fine job of testing the 9V batteries.  It's neat to have a dedicated battery tester, but it's certainly not a necessity to get a good test on a battery.

If you do not  need to test often, do as John stated.  If you see several trains that are questionable, make yourself something or buy a cheap device.

I've always found that the BEST place to git yer battery checked is at Wally's Service Station in Mayberry.  Ask for Guber!

I used the reset chip to fix an MTH trolley with PS1 for someone else (2 or 3 years ago) and it did the job. I bought the reset chip with chip puller and replacement battery online for under $30. The reset chip is reusable for other PS1 revivals.

I'm wary of the BCR's (especially for PS1)  because you have to remember to precharge them every time you want to run your loco. You're supposed to use so much throttle for so long, don't forget, and if some one else tries to run it without knowing ... ??   A good battery will last years.

As for testing batteries, yes you need to load the battery for a voltage reading to mean anything. Use a resistor for about a 50ma load on a 9v (the experts may have somewhat different numbers). A charged but worn-out battery can show good voltage that will quickly poop out under load.

SantaFeJim - it's "Goober", not "Guber". These things are important.

  Sorry.  

Actually, the only use for the reset chip is the three-clanks issue.  MTH techs have other chips to address other issues.

Thanks for the info on the battery testing, it makes sense as I used to test 12 volt car batteries. The standard for 12 volt car batteries is after being charged for 72 hours at a low charge rate of about 10 amps and the battery won't hold at least 12.2 volts after a recharge it is probably bad. A new car battery should have at least 12.5 volts.

To test a 12 volt car battery, when starting the voltage should not go below 9 volts.

Lee Fritz

You're right Lee, and the same principle applies to testing most any battery.  You need at least a light load to actually get a useful test of a battery.

The one thing you can determine without a load is that the battery is bad.  If you have a primary Alkaline cell with low voltage, you can be pretty sure it's dead.  By the same token, if you have a 1.2V NiCad or NiMh battery that after charging has less than 1.2 volts open circuit, it's most likely also bad.  It's determining it you have a good battery that requires the load.

Had a PS-1 Mallet that the chip scrambled, bought the kit, took about 10 minutes to correct the chip, has run great for at least 10 years since.

    Bill T.

Well, for the most part the 3 clanks are related to dead batteries on PS1 locos and since the engine has been shelve ridden for so long id say there is no need to test the battery. Put in a new battery and reset the board with the chip.

Just found out today that they upgraded it to 4.30 and it's ready to be picked up.

Lee Fritz

Interesting thread.

Can I assume that the information provided would also apply to an MTH 30-2186-1 Rail King Pioneer Zephyr set? Got it as a "gift" but really haven't had much time to play around with it. I did have it running several months ago, but last week when I gave it a go it just clanked when trying to start.

GRJ - have ordered the stuff you suggested in the email. Going to try it on the 2353 Lionel and Williams F unit. What do I have to lose.....right?