Time to update.. maybe

Check the 2-Rail/3-Rail (if present) and DCS/DCC switches.

I did on dcs and 3 rail 

Pennywise11788 posted:

ok got my dcs fixed and runs. Loaded up all my trains except 1. So this morning I’m loading my chessie up and can’t be found, I start to worry then I looked at boxes. All my engines that loaded fine were proto sound 2 whereas my chessie is 3. Not knowing which dcs tui I have , will updating let my train be recognized 

will updating let my train be recognized  ..... Probably not.

You can find out what software is loaded in the tiu with...

Menu/ Sysyem/  Tiu set up/ Tiu version.

Have you tried  adding the chessie using a programming track?? or equivalent.... find a good spot  on the layout  with a good dcs signal and remove all other engines from the layout or park them on dead tracks.

What message did you get? Did it say engine error? or no engine to add? or???

Have you tried running this engine in conventional mode without the signal?

No engine found. Not conventional yet. Kind of scared to mess with it. I just got everything set up after a long time and finally works. Lol am scared to touch anything 

You don't switch anything on the engine to run in conventional. You just try it directly with a transformer.

I do understand believe me. I just went thru some stuff myself.

One more thing incase you're not aware, PS3 engines need a full minute to power up on powered track to charge their caps.

Ok, I will run convental. Ok ok charge up. Do I just put on powered  track and leave it setting. That might be it, as it has sit in box 2 years in my bed room

Pennywise11788 posted:

No engine found. Not conventional yet. Kind of scared to mess with it. I just got everything set up after a long time and finally works. Lol am scared to touch anything 

 Dies that mean you tried a programming track   or equivalent?  ...

Thanks it needed charged lol 

Though it keeps saying engine isn’t j. Track. This being a fickle girl.  It when twice around. I started hooking up passenger cars and every since. It says it ain’t on track 

If your passenger cars have caps inside, they may mess up the signal. When you have control of an engine, run a signal test to see. Add the cars and do the signal test again.

 Some older cars draw around an amp of power each. Just a few of them can tax the power of smaller transformers.

Thank you. Sorry for hardly legible post above. I was angerly typing 

If the lighted passenger cars cause the issue, tell us more about the cars.  It's possible to fix them with an added component if they're killing the DCS signal.

I will check, I’m not going back to The room tonite.  I will tomorrow. The passengers car are lighted Lionel cars.  I wonder if it is ps3 thing, cause my crescent and GN are running with lighted cars and are fine.

Huh?   Were you able to get the engine added? and then get the engine not on track messages?

Not all lighted passenger cars affect the DCS signal, but it's widely known that certain cars with a capacitor internally across the rails will kill the signal.  If you have an observation car with LED's, that could be the culprit.

Lol that is my last car on my train. I will check when I can thanks. If That is culprit, do I just not run it 

Gregg posted:

Huh?   Were you able to get the engine added? and then get the engine not on track messages?

Yes.  After last info of it might be observation car, I want to test but I will have to wife comes home cause I don’t wanna leave kid alone asleep 

Ok update... about to throw it through room. So I deleted it. Re uploaded. It ran fine. Added cars and ran fine. Got to inner circle, stopped and automatically turned off. I go to turn on, engine not on track. Signal is fine. I swear idk if it is  my eyes playing trick but looks like back running wheels are off. But all my other trains back wheels look like that when turning a curve.  I’m out of ideals.

What type of engine is your  Chessie?? Is it a 2/3 rail steamer? Sounds to me like a track issue on the inner loop. Either a poor dcs signal or  poor outside rail pick up dues to engine  type or poor connections to the outside rails. Are both outside rails tied together?

Pennywise11788 posted:

Ok update... about to throw it through room. So I deleted it. Re uploaded. It ran fine. Added cars and ran fine. Got to inner circle, stopped and automatically turned off. I go to turn on, engine not on track. Signal is fine. I swear idk if it is  my eyes playing trick but looks like back running wheels are off. But all my other trains back wheels look like that when turning a curve.  I’m out of ideals.

Unfortunately, I have been there,.... many, many times too many.

I usually end up blaming the wrong thing for causing the issue and that takes longer to find the problem. You have to look at things clearly and openly which is hard to do like this.

Yea it is the 2/3. I’ll check my connections again but my queen crescent ran fine on it . Thanks Joe for your words. This site and these people have pushed me forward so much.  If wasn’t for the help here my stuff would be sittIng boxes becoming hoarder status 

Ok re visiting. So I put chessie on the 84 track, ran fine.  So I kept the chessie on out track and put the queen crescent on the inner. Both ran flawless. Soon as I switched track, no  engine on track for chessie.  Both handles up to 18 volts. Then I played around with one at 20 and other at 18. Any ideals. 

Without knowing  how your loops are set up it's very difficult to come with a solution.

So... Are you using the same tiu  channel for each loop or does each loop have it's own tiu  channel.

Are the loops separated by a center rail insulating pin?

Red tiu output always to center rail with proto-2 ( Apparently proto-3 doesn't care)

Does each loop have it's own power supply (maybe they're out of phase)

Have you tried doing a track signal test on each loop...?   .

I think you're  close to  fixing things  (keep at it)

 Both loops are seperate of each other. Power by same tiu. Both  powered by z4000. Track signal test is 10. Not sure what you mean out of phase. I’m just confused as all my trains work on inner loop except chessie and it is my only proto 3. I can also run 2 trains together with no problems, just chessie 

Never mind the out of phase part... I have no idea why the "chessie only runs on the outer loop ? and not the inner loop. Did you add any feeders to the outside rails? or jumper them.

I’m super stumped as well. My friend helped with wiring. Said it was a bus, I believe. Large wires around main track with shoots out to inner loop

OK, so you have to be methodical here in testing. What is different between these 2 loops? There has to be something because the engine has no way to tell what it's on. It should not care if it's on the outer or inner, yet it does. That means there's something different with the inner loop.

 The only long shot here is if the inner has just tight enough curves to twist the trucks more, that might be the difference?

If you can't find anything else different between the loops, try running the engine on it's side with wires clipped on, twist the trucks and see if it stalls. Test both trucks like this separately. Maybe there's a broken wire? Do you see much sparking (if the room lights are off) underneath?

The inner is O 60. Fastrack and it says O54 on box for engine. Actually not any spark when says suddenly becomes stalled or not on track. Never tried running on side. Are you saying hook both wires up to wheels and try to run. also idk if matters but inner loop has to wired tracks were outer has 4

We don't know all of your setup. Your description helps a lot. There maybe a dead spot on the inner loop that engines will pass over but this one has a problem with.

Do you have any test leads with alligator clips?

 Try putting the engine on it's side. Connect the black wire from a transformer to the sideframes of a truck. Connect the red wire to the three rail roller of that same truck. See if the engine runs. Try twisting the trucks while running.

 Now also try the other truck. If one does not work that maybe the whole problem.

If you don't have leads you could park the engine on a taped section of track to test each truck for power pick-up.

Do you have a meter to test the track? If not your passenger cars with lights could work by lifting up one end and seeing if there's any dead track right where the engine stalls with the other end.

No alligator clips but I’ll buy if needed. 

Try parking the engine with a section of track taped off big enough so that only one truck doesn't get power. See if it will start, then reverse the engine.

 Also have you tried to test that exact spot on the track where this engine stalls?

I didn't mean to interrupt any suggestions by others.

Ok. More info. Put chessie on outer loop. Start up works. Pu the crescent on inner loop. Chessie sound stays on but tender light and coal box go out. I wanted to line them up so I pull crescent to match chessie which is the way they are parked under the inner loops wired track. I did this and sparks started flying under the powered inner track when crescent pulled up, all of a sudden they powered down and red bulb started blinking on 4000. SO this went from both working fine till nothing, all started when I introduced chessie .  I need help. I almost put a for sale post up. Man I am almost done with this bs

Pennywise, I read all the posts here.  Your last one to me points to a phasing issue.  But if you are using the same z4000, not really possible unless you accidentally flipped red for black on either the in or out of 1 the TIU connections.

Is it possible for you to post a photo clearly showing how you are wired?

Another thing to try is have the Queen Crescent pull the Chessie passenger cars and see what happens.  

Tony

I’ll snap some pics. The gentleman who helped me did wire dcs. In fixed one but out variables.  It shows that way online but I’ve hesrd y’all do it in fixed and out fixed.

ill send pics in a sec. I was in train room again and even without chessie on track at all now my crescent on inner loop won’t go and says engine not on track, give me a few to clear my head. And I’ll go back out.  Do you want pics of how it is all wired or just dcs 

Pennywise11788 posted:

I’ll snap some pics. The gentleman who helped me did wire dcs. In fixed one but out variables.  It shows that way online but I’ve hesrd y’all do it in fixed and out fixed.

ill send pics in a sec. I was in train room again and even without chessie on track at all now my crescent on inner loop won’t go and says engine not on track, give me a few to clear my head. And I’ll go back out.  Do you want pics of how it is all wired or just dcs 

The better the pics, the better the chances of one of us spotting an issue.  I would say how it is all wired.  

The way I tried make wire free might mess pics up. Also out of pic of how they layout goes under tabe to terminals. Also they are fixed out not variable I forgot he changed it

It appears from pic 3 that you have the outputs both connected to fixed.  Unfortunately, we also need to see the input side wired.  Without the wires, it looks like everyones TIU.

From what I can see, it appears red and black stay constant.  For the track connections, red is the center rail and black is the outer, correct?

Last, when you run, are both of the handles of the z4000 at full max?  They should be unless you have Lionel equipment on the layout.

On the transformer I thought I only had to both turn them up to 18 V