Tin Plate and 27" curves - compatible?

Most O gauge tinplate should run on 27" curves. Are you buying prewar or modern tinplate? The modern stuff should have a curve listed.

 

The main concern I would have is that most Marx has gears on the drive wheels which goes all the way to the end of the flange. This can cause issues at switches.

Are there any tinplate trains in particular you are thinking about?

Depends on the motive power you intend to buy.  Much of the newer O tinplate will operate on O31, but I don't really know how well it might perform on O27.  I operate several contemporary O (MTH/LCT) models on O31 FasTrack, but mostly operate on O36 FasTrack curves.

When that Tinplate BUG Bites you, You can't get enough of it. I know.

To answer:

 

I am going to get all modern stuff with electronics by MTH, whether that means PS2 or PS3 I don't care (I'm only set up to PS2 standards and won't be upgrading).

 

I can't go by what manufacturers list because they typically just list their own track diameters as the minimum - I KNOW this for a fact since I have 6 MTH PS2 engines listed at 31" min that can easily handle my 27" curves. 

 

When I was buying my regular MTH 3-rail stuff for the first time I asked the same question and got replies by people that actually ran an engine on 27", so I was obviously very confident in buying pieces.  Sometimes though I took some 27" curves to the hobby store, or York, and actually tried it.

 

I don't want to sell my stuff if I can't replace it with tin-plate that can handle 27" curves.  Since I won't care about road names or model type, all that I need to know is "Do any modern made tin-plate engines exist that handle 27" curves?".

 

thanks - walt

I guess I should have mentioned that I want 'O' gauge stuff, not the standard gauge.  My track is O27 profile.

 

I asked a few months back if tin-plate can run on O27 profile track and got my "YES SIR" replies.  Now for the curvature question.

 

thanks - walt

For the modern stuff, I would think that the major limiting factor would be the tether. I run original items, and I know my 252 and my 265e run on O-27, and I would bet money that my 262E would also.

Walt,

i can't wait to see your 2013 layout with the new tinplate.

Brad

Brad: you and me both!!!  I hope I can find someone saying that, "Yes, I run tin-plate on 27" curves" because otherwise there won't be any tin-plate in my future, sadly.

 

thanks Brad - walt

Walt,

 

Michael gave you your answer a while back in his two posts. Any engine with drivers that have the gear extending all the way to the edge of the flange will have problems on your switches. Here is a Marx engine with such a gear.

 

 

 

I have run this modern Lionel Prewar Celebration series Red Comet on 027 (my Reading Central door layout) with no problem. Again, it won't be the radius that will be the problem, but the switches....and you can verify that just by looking at the gears on the drivers. I don't know of any modern remakes with the problem gears, but just look to make sure before buying.

 

 

The only O gauge engine I know of that might be too big physically for 027 is the huge Lionel 256. But, that one is a real exception as far as size is concerned.

 

 

Jim

Thanks Jim, but I'm a bit not sure of your answer.  I'm asking about 27" curves specifically, not O27 profile track in general.  A few months ago when I first toyed with this idea, I asked if tin-plate would run on O27 profile and got many 'YES' answers.

 

Now the question is 27" curves.

 

I will pay attention to the gearing.  Thanks for the warning.  I will not be buying anything except the very newest stuff, no Marx or older stuff.

 

- walt

Walt,

 

As I said in my post - "it won't be the radius that will be a problem".

 

I too was speaking of the curve radius/diameter not just the profile.

 

Only that big 256 or maybe an Ives 1694 electric might have a problem, but even those might work. The tinplate era was one of trains clattering around tight curves, way before the current trend toward wide radius curves.

 

When you narrow down your hunt to a specific set or engine, check here again and we will try again to give you some specific info.

 

Jim

Almost all trains will run on O-27 profile track. The question is the curves. Jim said that his Red Comet runs on his O-27 layout, and considering his wording, that includes the curves. I can verify this with my prewar 265E (is there really a lot of difference between the two, besides modern motors and electronics?).

 

Do you have a list of engines which you are considering? This would probably help a lot for people to try it with their engines.

Hi Michael.  Thanks for trying to help me out.

 

No, I have no road names or engine types in mind, but have ruled out engines that I think are called "electrics".  All that I know is that I want the newly made stuff with PS2 or PS3.

 

I went thru 6 MTH catalogues last night and none of them mention min curvature track for any engine.  Nada.

 

thanks - walt

Walt,

Are you going to sell all of your Pittsburgh cars:  Iron city,Isley's,Kennywood,etc.?

Norm

Walt:

 

In the contemporary O gauge tinplate line (MTH/LCT), virtually all motive power is designed for O31 minimum diameter.  There may be one or two exceptions to this, but I can't think of any off hand.  If minimum curve is not listed in the catalog pages, just enter the product number in the MTH Product Locator and then click on the icon that looks like an open book.  That will take you to the item's owner's manual, and you'll find the curvature listed.

 

You will NOT find any listed for O27 curves, so don't waste your time looking.  However, rest assured that a good many of the O gauge tinplate trains will handle O27 curves (possibly a majority of them).  Another "however" is that O27 switches may be another matter altogether, with some perhaps being problematic.  The only sure way to learn how one of these trains will handle Lionel or other O27 switches is to ask someone who already owns the item you are interested in AND who is operating on O27 track and switches.  Those folks will probably be relatively hard to find.

Walt,

 

I have several of the new Lionel Corporation Tinplate items.  I have a 255E, 261E, and a 254E and all have PS2 or PS3.  I have also run all of these on O27 track but not through O27 switches.  On my Christmas layout I ran all of these through an MTH Realtrax O31 switch without any issue at 15-25 smph. 

 

Here is Lionel's version of the 261E that is listed for O27 in the catalog. http://www.lionel.com/Products...neID=&CatalogId=

 

-Ryan

Walt

Marx made 034 track in the 027 profile. It's a very handy size. I have used it on my modules and connected it to the early Marx 027 all metal switches. Takes a little fiddling and trimming, but it works and most any type driver will pass through the Marx switches. Not sure if you have room for the 034, but it adds to the possibilities.

 

Steve

Watch out for deep flanges. Some of the new MTH has deep flanges and on Fast Track the tinplate runs on the flanges and not the tread. Measure the rail height of O27 vs the flange depth of the MTH and see if they are compatible.

The old pre war Lionel cars will handle the 027 curves but possibly not the 027 style switches. The 249e steam engine will run on 027 track without switches. Most of my pre war Lionel will handle 027 track, even the passenger cars # 2640 & 2641.

 

Sometimes too is a problem with Lionel post war style 027 switches that have the big housing mounted on them for the solenoid to fit into, the housing won't let some train cars go through because they hit the switch.

Two ways to solve this problem, go to either a K-Line 027 low profile or a Gargraves switch, both have the solenoids out of the way of the track path, although Gargraves looks more realistic.

 

Lee Fritz

I have some 30 MTH and LCT tinplate locomotives and have never had a problem running any of them on FasTrack and through FasTrack O36 switches (which is what I use on my tinplate layout).  In terms of flange depth, O27 should not be a problem at all since the rail height of O27 is, I believe, as great or even greater than the rail height of FasTrack.

 

As I and others noted earlier, conventional O27 switches may or may not perform as well as, for example, the FasTrack switches with O gauge tinplate.  That's something I have no experience with.

 

If I can dig out one of my boxes of O27 track this weekend, I'll measure the two just to confirm.

I Have Older MTH conventional 260E that the tender runs on the ties on Fast Track. Real deep flanges on the tender. I also have some RichArt 256 passenger cars that run on the ties of Fast Track and the equivalent MTH track.

I do not even try my new MTH or original tinplate on the Fast Track at the club because it is just easier to use another loop of track.

 

What a great series of replies!  Thank you!  But now I'm getting nervous!

 

I need to stress: I will NOT be buying Marx, Ives, or any older stuff.  I understand the comment made above about older trains being designed to run on smaller curves given the times.

 

I don't know if it matters, but ALL of my switches are O27 profile K-Line low-profile (newer style) switches.  I no longer own any Lionel switches because the motor housing issue was one I couldn't live with.

 

I was at the local hobby store Wednesday and the owner was kind enough to allow me to try an engine and tender combo (new one since it had the newer MTH drawbar) on 27" curves and 1 switch that I took there.  I didn't actually run the train, I slightly lifted it to take the weight off so as to not damage the traction tire, and manually moved it around the track and thru the switch.  It handled it.

 

But after reading above about the flange issue now I'm wondering if the flanges would have been an issue had I not slightly, and I mean slightly, lifted the drive wheels off the track.  But the tender handled it and I didn't lift that.

 

Boy, this is confusing.

 

Jim, I like your suggestion about coming back once I have a model in mind and possibly someone here will own that model and be willing to try.  I plan on buying 2 trains at this October York so I probably won't know until then unfortunately.

 

Alan, I would still appreciate it if you could try.  I agreed to commit today to the fellow buying my stuff but I'll ask for a weekend reprieve.  I'm sure he'll understand.

 

thanks - walt

Jim P: I apologize for not somehow noticing your reply from July 2, 2013 12:50 PM above.  I thanked Michael and not you because I didn't see yours for whatever reason.  I feel horrible about that.

 

- walt

Norm, Yes, I am seeing everything that I own, train-wise, not track, power, etc.

 

I've had piece-meal offers but all of them left me with the less desirable pieces.  The fellow that I'm working with is willing to buy everything in one swoop.

 

Just for giggles (and more seriously in case something falls thru) are you interested by any chance?  My email is in my profile.

 

- walt

Walt. If your going to get them at York we can get together there and look at the options. E-mail sent.

Got your email Chris.  Thank you very much for trying things on actual 27" tubular curves.  Much, much appreciated and VERY timely.

 

I agreed, after reading you email, to meet with my buyer Sunday at my house.  I will then be 100% trainless until October York   But given that I only set up at Christmas, I guess I'll survive!  But just knowing that my house is completely void of trains is not a real comfortable feeling.

 

At York I will, on Thursday, write down some of the sets that I'm interested in and bring that info to TGIF's, since I know that you and Jim P. and others knowledgeable about tin-plate will be there.  Thanks for the offer.

 

thanks again - walt

Walt, I have a small 5' X 6' O27 layout as you can see in the picture, you shouldn't have any problems running modern O gauge tinplate on O27 curves. I have run my PS2 MTH Railking 0-6-0 on this layout with no trouble at all, and as you can see in the pic I'm running a set of post war Alcos. I also run my pre war 262 (not pictured) with no issues. 

thanks for encouragement jvega2!!!!  I need all I can muster up!!!!!!!

 

- walt

I have been  working on redoing my tin plate layout.  I have put it around my operator pit.  As most of my track is rather old (O27) I purchased a loop of Lionel O27 but O42 curve.  Has not given me any trouble in my operations.  By the way, my loop is 46 inches across using 6 o-42 curves and 2 6 inch straights.  The straigt sides are 3 long sections (about 36 Inches) and 2 straights on each side.  May be you can use info in some way.

Al

Thanks AL CLAIR.  All positive comments are helpful to this nervous Nellie!!!

 

I have a fair amount of O27 42", 54", and 72" but I have an amount of 27" probably equal to all 3 of the bigger curves put together.

 

- walt