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I just ran four trains on my temporary tinplate carpet layout, including my new-to-me Unique Art 2000 AA set, a Lionel 262E, Marx 62 AA set, and a Lionel #60 trolley. This is exactly the kind of thing I thought I'd never want three years ago when I picked up trains again: the utter madness of unrealistic toys speeding around circles to nowhere. But now I love it. The previous night it was a disaster, with uncooperative trains stalling, derailing and breaking their coupler, refusing to go the right direction. Tonight, they ran perfectly while shooting this video - all working together like a precision timepiece. It was beautiful 100% pure toy goodness.

Last edited by John's Trains

@John's Trains - What a super video!!  Great trains and lots of action.  John, I will admit that I am a "2 wires from my ZW to the track" sort of guy and I sometimes just love to watch them go 'round.  Luckily there is room for all sorts of different perspectives in this hobby and on this forum so your video fits right in.  Now you need to add some clockwork to be complete.

Best Wishes

Don

@William 1    "Totally awesome!  I love the 2nd level on the floor layout.  That green train looks like a honey."

Thank you @William 1! Yes, I'm no expert, but those green prewar cars are pretty nice. I found them at a local hobby shop where I assured my wife that I didn't expect to find anything and wouldn't spend much. Yet there they were, hiding way down inside an old box full of stuff. It wasn't my fault.

@Don McErlean   "What a super video!! Great trains and lots of action. John, I will admit that I am a "2 wires from my ZW to the track" sort of guy and I sometimes just love to watch them go 'round. Luckily there is room for all sorts of different perspectives in this hobby and on this forum so your video fits right in. Now you need to add some clockwork to be complete."

Thank you @Don McErlean!   My other Hi-rail wannabe layout has nice scenery but just one small loop to watch the train go round, so this is an entirely new level of excitement. As far as clockwork, you sound like an enabler, much like some other guys on this forum.  But I do admit that I'm looking for clockwork. "Mr & Mrs Storekeeper, may I have one of each kind of train, please? Yes, that keywound Marx train. Oh, and that Hafner one up on the shelf, too."

John

Last edited by John's Trains

John - I am a floor layout guy, was anyway...  my railroad is in hiatus now, too many problems with mgmt etc., wasn’t a well run outfit so we tore up the tracks, I had to lay all the guys off, wasn't many guys actually, me myself & I but it still hurt.  And in the end I got my dance floor back, which is nice I guess, if you have a dance partner…  Have a cool layout planned, off the floor upward and onward.  Onwards towards the fog is a saying from back in the day, I'll stick with that for now.

All I have now is a few short videos of my prewar Std gauge trains I’ll share to keep you going.  They are sleeping now snug in boxes.  Love your layout & trains, have fun!

Cheers,       W

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Last edited by William 1
@William 1 posted:

John - I am a floor layout guy, was anyway...  my railroad is in hiatus now, too many problems with mgmt etc., wasn’t a well run outfit so we tore up the tracks, I had to lay all the guys off, wasn't many guys actually, me myself & I but it still hurt.  And in the end I got my dance floor back, which is nice I guess, if you have a dance partner…  Have a cool layout planned, off the floor upward and onward.  Onwards towards the fog is a saying from back in the day, I'll stick with that for now.

All I have now is a few short videos of my prewar Std gauge trains I’ll share to keep you going.  They are sleeping now snug in boxes.  Love your layout & trains, have fun!

Cheers,       W

Thank you for sharing those. The hardwood floor is a beautiful setting for those trains! I love that lonely,  mournful whistle. And I've somehow managed to make it into my 60s without remembering hearing "Onwards towards the fog." But now I read that it's a well-known phrase attributed at least to Winston Churchill. I like it. I hope you see your layout come into being.

John

Last edited by John's Trains

John - That is interesting that is a Winston Churchill quote, what I remember is it was the tag line for a company that sold bongs   haha.

I am going to build a cool layout, I am a strictly a prewar standard gauge guy.  And I really have all I need as far as a collection.  So Don, that is a 513 variation that I was coveting for some time.  The maroon & cream.  I think I have a really nice car in all the basic color variations of the 500 freights which satisfies my need to collect.  There are a couple 515 oddball tankers that I’ve seen which are tempting but I’m being a cheapskate for now. Don’t need a $170  yellow Shell tank car do I…Enjoy what you have, build a layout and make it real.  That last was a note to myself   haha

You guys are amazing- keep going - onwards towards whatever makes you happy and wherever that leads.  Great hobby and so fun to see the passion you all have for preserving the past.

Last edited by William 1

Since I’m on a roll so to speak, this is one of my honeys.  Baby baby give me a ride on a seat on one of those Blue Baby states. This engine is so smooth she could….
Slip by a cop goin 60 in a 40 mile zone.      
Take your ten dollars and leave you five cents change - and you like it.                                       

Take a ride in the back seem like a ride in the front.                                                    T

Take you anywhere, just get me outta here!

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Last edited by William 1

UPDATE ON THE "SAD" 301 BUCO LOCO:

I finally figured out why the "Buco" E-unit would not work!!  I put the multi-meter on the windings of the stator coil, and found there was no continuity on the top fine wire winding.

The field coil has two windings on it...a coarse wire to create the field magnet for the armature to spin around, and a finer secondary winding on top of the coarse winding to activate the E-unit.

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                                                              Buco's special E-unit

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I have several replacement stator coils in my spare parts bin, so I just replaced the faulty stator, and this got the motor running and changing directions again.

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I had to change out the original "press fit" axles, as the drive wheels would not grip the knurling on the little axles anymore.

I replaced the axles with thicker threaded axles from the later production Buco's, but this required the brass bushes in the chassis frame to be drilled out to 3.5mm, and then hand reemed for a perfect fit.

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Added three new buffer stops, new pantographs, new side windows, and the missing pick-up spoon and drop-link coupler, and we were back in business.

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It now runs and changes direction perfectly (as the manufacturer intended) with the interruption of power from the transformer, every time.

I just love it.....and I can't bring myself to re-painting it in any "fantasy" color scheme at this stage. It will join its other brothers ands sisters on the roster to pull Buco freight and passenger trains around the layout.

Another happy ending!!!!

Peter....Buco Australia.

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Well I got the dance floor back, Love Shack that's where it’s at - still no dance partner yet, all these cute bartenders in town don’t seem to understand what a nice guy I am alas… All the guys have all been in the pub for all summer, every time I say to Jimmy, beautiful day huh, what are you doing today, he says, perfect day to be in bar all afternoon with the door open,,,  You can't change these guys, they will do what they do.

Meanwhile I’m scheming on building this standard gauge layout or we will all go to ruin.  I love the plan, simple and could be fun, maybe have a 2 track yard on the LH side.  Keep at it guys, always checking in,

Cheers,       W1

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Last edited by William 1

Excellent job there Peter @Buco she looks a real sweetie now and I don't blame you for not giving her a repaint at all ! They are only original once !

Some excellent running on the thread by the floorway railroaders ! Thanks for keeping this old thread alive

Broke my self imposed drought yet again ( lol ) Couldn't walk past a little early Bing Tinplate turnstile railway platform that was going at a very nice price ...

I haven't done due diligence on her yet but she must be c1910-20?  got the old diamond GBN logo tucked in under the roof ... all in all a nice little thing

@Buco- Peter, what a great job!  She sure looks great.  I must admit I am sort of with Fatman on the new paint job, I like to keep mine original if I can but to each his own.  Super find for sure.

@Fatman- Great little turnstile / building.  No rust or corrosion and lithography seems perfect.  If indeed it is 1910-1920 its well over a century old and in remarkable condition for that age.

@William 1 - Hey that layout looks really neat.  I wish I had 56+ sq ft to devote to my Standard Gauge.  I am thinking of a temporary single loop at Christmas this year at least some of it will run again.

Well my tinplate acquisitions have slowed down a bit like Fatman's...however I do have a Hornby passenger set coming my way and it should arrive in early August.  Will picture it when it arrives.

Best Wishes

Don

@Buco posted:

UPDATE ON THE "SAD" 301 BUCO LOCO:

I finally figured out why the "Buco" E-unit would not work!!  I put the multi-meter on the windings of the stator coil, and found there was no continuity on the top fine wire winding.

The field coil has two windings on it...a coarse wire to create the field magnet for the armature to spin around, and a finer secondary winding on top of the coarse winding to activate the E-unit.

DSC03531

                                                              Buco's special E-unit

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I have several replacement stator coils in my spare parts bin, so I just replaced the faulty stator, and this got the motor running and changing directions again.

DSC03535

I had to change out the original "press fit" axles, as the drive wheels would not grip the knurling on the little axles anymore.

I replaced the axles with thicker threaded axles from the later production Buco's, but this required the brass bushes in the chassis frame to be drilled out to 3.5mm, and then hand reemed for a perfect fit.

DSC03537

Added three new buffer stops, new pantographs, new side windows, and the missing pick-up spoon and drop-link coupler, and we were back in business.

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It now runs and changes direction perfectly (as the manufacturer intended) with the interruption of power from the transformer, every time.

I just love it.....and I can't bring myself to re-painting it in any "fantasy" color scheme at this stage. It will join its other brothers ands sisters on the roster to pull Buco freight and passenger trains around the layout.

Another happy ending!!!!

Peter....Buco Australia.

Glad it was something you could fix.  And it looks like the body cleaned up nicely.  Did you polish it, or just clean it?

Well tinplate fans I have some new "stuff" to post over the next few days.  First, is a little building, like Fatman I like tinplate buildings  but this one is not nearly as old or interesting as his, but it has been on my "radar" for some time.  Why?  Mostly because of its size I think, its only 6 7/8" X 5 3/8" on the base (5 1/2" X 3 3/4" for the shed) which makes it very usable on my very small and space limited layout.  I honestly think size is what makes this little gal so popular and due to her popularity,  I have had a devil of a time finding one both in the condition I want at a price I want to pay.  The Hornby "Plate layer's Shed" suffers from the same set of circumstances and also remains on my "hit list".  They tend to be expensive - too much for me.  However for some reason the seller was only asking $30 for this one and it looked in reasonable condition so I grabbed it.

It is an American Flyer, postwar "Tool Shed".  A simple white/red enameled small shed with a sliding door and a peaked Bakelite roof (in darker red).  It was offered by Gilbert American Flyer from 1946-1952, so represents the Flyer line from just after the war as production re-emerged from wartime restrictions for metal toys.

Anyway, here is my Gilbert, early postwar, American Flyer tinplate enameled "Tool Shed".   A few nicks in the white paint on the front and a bit of wear on the base but otherwise in  very good condition for 78 or so years old.  The Bakelite roof is without cracks or chips so I consider that a plus.  It was never illuminated hence has no windows, however there is a factory hole through the base into the interior which could accommodate a light if someone wished to put one in.

American Flyer Tool Shed -front view
American Flyer Tool Shed - quarter view

Well that's it for me today.  I also just received a Hornby passenger set (actually its a loco. tender and 2 cars and I have not confirmed it is really a "set") but I have yet to unpack and examine it, so that will likely post in the next few days.

Best wishes to all

Don

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@Buco- Thanks Peter...yes the door fully slides open, when I take a still photo of any opening door my habit is to show it 1/2 open to illustrate that its not "fixed" (like some of Lionel's 0-27 boxcars).  However the door fully slides open and this one works perfectly.  My shape, Peter, is a modest Pear shape as you know.  However, if you and your lovely wife come back to the USA or I ever get back to Australia I will be most anxious to meet you both again and improve it with more food and more beer .

@PRR8976-Thanks Tom . I don't think they are rare in terms of availability but I took quite awhile to find one primarily because they all seemed to be advertised for a price way too high for what you got.  My speculation is that this was because it is such a convenient size, especially for small layouts like mine, hence the "demand" was high enough to support a high price.  I finally found this one for $30 and jumped on it , but I had been looking for about 2 years.

Best Wishes everyone, KEEP HUNTING- like they say on the "X-files" ...you know they're out there!

Don

Last edited by Don McErlean

Well I finally unpacked and researched (a bit) my "new" Hornby "set" .  It was advertised as a "passenger set" however, my research shows things to be a little more complicated than that.  The locomotive, as pictured below, is a Type 50 tender type in a black enameled livery.  Hence this might be more a "goods livery" than passenger, my Hornby reference shows this loco , cab number 60199 as being made in "British Rail (BR) black" so it is correct. However for the No 51 passenger set they also made a Type 51 locomotive, nearly identical except for color and cab number.   Both the type 50 and 51 were first made in 1954 and were available new until 1961 - although available stock was sold until expended.  OBTW she came with an "official"  Mecanno labeled winding key, a Mecanno label on the firebox wall directly stating her Type number,  and after some brief testing I can state that she operates well.

Hornby Type 50 loco

Now the somewhat complex part.  In 1954 Hornby listed the No 50 Goods and No 51 Passenger set,  the No 50 Goods set using the Type 50 locomotive (black)  and the Passenger set  using  the No 51 locomotive (green) and the #51 coaches.  The difference between the 50 and 51 locomotive is nearly nothing except the color and cab number.    However, in this year, IAW the reference material I have, a large amount of No 1 stock was left over and the No 1 coaches (show below) which should have been replaced by the #51 coach in 1954 were still available and in fact stayed in the Mecanno price lists until 1958!  So lets look at the group as I received it.  Note that the No 1 coaches that came with the group can be dated to some extent.  They have the "new" tin printing from 1932 and which continued almost without change after the war.  From 1948 onward these coaches were available for separate sale and the most evident change was that the axle supports were no longer pierced between the axle journal and the leaf spring ( this is the case with these) so these must date from post 1948.  Things stayed pretty constant from that point on until 1957 when the base was changed from matte black (like these)  to glossy black.  Thus dating these No 1 coaches from 1948-1957.  More importantly to the question of whether this "set" should have come with No 1 coaches or No. 51 coaches is the fact that the No1 coaches were CHEAPER and still available to order from the price list.  So, it is conceivable that a price conscious parent upon buying a set for a birthday or Christmas gift may have specified the less expensive No 1 coaches over the No 51.  It is also more than possible that a buyer may have preferred a black engine (which was far less common in the Hornby line) to a green one and thus picked the 50 over the 51.

Hornby Type 50 Passenger Train

So I have a beautiful 1950's Hornby passenger "set" (maybe) which IAW TCA rules I cannot call a "set" without the set box which I do not have and I cannot confirm the contents.  This grouping has time appropriate locomotive and passenger cars (both available from Mecanno as new from 1954-1957) but it is possible that it should have a green (51) loco instead of a black (50) and which might be 1) an official set or 2) a set made up by a dealer or 3) a set made up by a price conscious buyer or 4) just a group of trains that were assembled together at some unknown point in time or 5) something else !!  Any and all opinions from the forum are welcome, data on Hornby is not exactly extensive here in the US.  Whatever the answer is however, I LOVE IT!

Best Wishes

Don

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@Don McErlean  Hey Don, that Hornby set bought back some fond memories for me.

As a kid I had my one and only Buco train set....1 loco and 2 passenger carriages. Because we couldn't get any more Buco (at the time), my father bought me some Hornby carriages. They were the only other "O" gauge trains available here in Australia in the 1950's and early 1960's.

He bought me some freight wagons, and another passenger carriage and a guards (brake) van (just liker the ones in your set) so I had two consists to play with, and I still have them to this day. Had to go hunting for them in the storage bin under the layout, after seeing your post, as I don't run them all that much.

They are still in their original boxes, with the price of each one written in lead pencil on the box flap. It was the old pounds, shillings, and pence way back then, before we went to dollars and cents. I think I got these wagons in late 1959 or early 1960, if my memory serves me well.

Here they are:

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This lumber wagon is missing the "brake rod", but that is the way it came from the factory in the box......must have been a "Monday" production!!!

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Price (in pencil) is nine shillings (9/-) which is about 90 cents when converted. Can't buy a brand new tinplate freight wagon for 90c these days!!!

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                       Note the "brake rod" fitted to the side of the wagon

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This was a more expensive model (12/6 pence = $1.25) I just loved it cause the body would tip from one side to the other, to empty its load.

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     Had no idea who the company was (McALPINE) that was advertised on the side of this wagon

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Don, I think it is the same version as the one you have in your set. Cost my dad 15 shillings ($1.50) back in 1959???

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Don't know what the "LF" sticker meant on the box flap, but it was there right from the beginning

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The lithograph is wearing off the body extension from being a tight fit in its cardboard box. And the coup-de- gra is, I still have the rear lantern that came in a little paper envelope, and slotted onto a tab on the rear of the carriage.

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See Don, I keep telling you we must be twins, cause we have exactly the same trains!!!

Peter.....Buco Australia.

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Peter - Wow those are really great!  It turns out, in my research, I learned that the "Type 50" wagons, with the brake lever, were a surprising and interesting development in the Hornby line in 1957.  It was, it turns out, the "last gasp" of Hornby in the 0 gauge line and the wagons, such as yours, were completely different than the prior No 1 wagons.  It was a complete re-design and how they intended to make money on such a high investment given the declining sales of 0 gauge is a mystery even today.  Nonetheless, most of those type 50 wagons were sold until 1969 when 0 gauge production stopped.  The No 50 Goods set with the black No 50 tender loco and type 50 wagons was initiated in 1957.  The Number 41 coaches and passenger brake van you have were initiated in 1954 and were pulled by the No 40 Tank locomotive (also in black).  Your type 41 coaches  and brake van would date from 1954 and be available until the end in 1969.  The ones you pictured are finished like my No 1's in what my reference calls the "suburban style".  At the same time the No 51 (green ) loco came with the No 51 coaches that looked completely different.  They were more squared off and finished in the crimson and cream (blood and custard) livery.  Candidly I don't think they look as good as the type 41's you have.   In the type 50 wagons, I have a Shell tank, a SAXA salt covered hopper, and a Brake Van.  I also have a tipping wagon but mine is yellow (same company name) vice green.

Peter those are really great cars and you have a clear family connection to them.  Your Dad obviously went to quite a bit of trouble to get you those, in the 1950's they would have been first line products and not cheap by any means.  In 1957 I got the Lionel Santa Fe F-3 and its aluminum passenger cars for Christmas...It was a very memorable Christmas for me but it was not until I got really involved in the hobby that I found out the financial sacrifice my parents made to buy that set!  Thanks for posting your Hornby, really enjoyed the pictures and finding out some more about Hornby in that time period.

your friend,

Don

Last edited by Don McErlean

Thanks for the very interesting back story on these Hornby wagons Don.

As a kid (6 or 7 years old) I didn't know too much about Hornby's financial status, all I knew is that I could get brand new "O" gauge trains from a department store (McDonald & East) in Brisbane, where I was born and raised.

And you are right....it must have cost my father considerable money to get me those wagons way back in 1959.

Thanks again Don for the info on my Hornby "collection".

Peter.....Buco Australia.

O Dear .... I did a "Thing "

Well two things really ...

First up I found a 1950's Australian Robilt locomotive , and gasp shock horror .. its the ELECTRIC version ! This is the first of its kind for me, although I do have a spare Davis Electra motor that I bought ages ago , anticipating this day ( just in case )

Spare Electra unit .. this one is from a Maurlyn train of the same period hence the different piston rod set up , but they both used the same motor

Second "Thing" .. a Marx Mercury streamline rake ... I know Marx is super popular and common over in the USofA but pretty thin on the ground here in good ol "Straya!

Any dating info or indeed any info in general on the Mercury would be appreciated !

Dont know why but I always wanted one lol ... its a bit more Art Deco than the Vanderbilt I think?

Your set is what Marx referred to as the M10005 streamlined set.  They used the Mercury locomotive which was fitted into the articulated consist with the tender you showed in your pictures.  The entire set was very well done and the cars / loco/ tender were all very closely coupled.  They emerged first in 1936  and reappeared after the war in 1948 (although after the war they mostly were made in UP livery).   The type 658 "Detroit" observation in grey/white seems to have been available from 1938-1940.  I can't read the names on the Pullman cars but my reference says they also were made 1938-1940 and there were three variations with names: Toledo, Cleveland, and Chicago.

The Mercury locomotive was the second steam locomotive Marx produced and it was made from 1938 -1940 in grey as yours is pictured.  It also came in black, red, and blue plus a red NYC and a black / copper NYC articulated M10005 set,  and with black, silver, and copper boiler fronts.  One of its "most famous" applications was as a wind up locomotive in a blue color with blue tender for the Marx "Blue Set" using the blue 6" type passenger cars and observation (referred to as "every man's blue comet").

Well that's about all the data I have at the moment.  Marx trains are a devil to date because they did not produce a regular catalog and many items were available as single sale, sitting in a open box shelf, in a 5 and dime store!

Great Set!  Best Wishes

Don

Last edited by Don McErlean

Hey Fatman:

Great to hear from you again, and that is one sad looking little Robilt loco. As Tom asked...is it running, or do you need to swap out the motor with the spare Electra motor to get it going???

And you're right....any Marx Mercury streamlined set is as rare as hen's teeth here in Australia, and looks like it is in pretty good condition. Not knowing too much about Marx trains.....is it clockwork (your forte) or is it electric???

Don (Don McErlean):

Thank you again for an interesting history lesson on Fatman's new Marx train set. Your knowledge about Marx is always interesting to read, and I continue to learn from you all the time. Thank you Don!!!

Peter....Buco Australia.

 

Thank you @Don McErlean  I had a cheeky suspicion it was of that era and not post war but I havent studied up on them too much, excellent summation and very grateful .. the other carriages are indeed Cleveland , but the one just after the tender in that rake is a Mail/Baggage carriage !

And @Buco   She is ....... ELECTRIC ....( I know, .... what am I doing !!!!! Volts n Amps n stuff !!! )

@PRR8976  I haven't tried powering the Robilt up as yet ... only got it in hand yesterday , but it does feel smooth to turn over but relatively tight at the same time , so I think its in for a good bath and lubrication before we put the Volts to it ... I do know the spare runs well, so I am covered either way, but I just think it is many years of sitting and grunge hardening to break free of before she runs well .

Fingers crossed!

@Buco - Hey friend, you are more than welcome.  I will admit to being a "bit" of a history nerd and I do enjoy when I can contribute to someone else's knowledge of trains.  You may not have realized but you and I have "traded" knowledge.  You to me on Buco trains, which like Marx in your country are rather "thin on the ground" here in the USA and thus I humbly trade you my Marx knowledge...Great fun Peter!

@Fatman - Hey you are right I forgot the baggage / mail .  It was also numbered 657 like the Pullman coaches and made during the same period, 1938-1940.  Now you have to hunt for those other coaches , Chicago and Toledo!   Just to confuse the issue, as Marx is always wont to do, after the war the M10005 was made as a UP train.  Colors (there were three trains) were white with green roof ,silver with red roof and yellow with brown roof (this train was also available in the pre-war period 1938-1940).  All made between 1948 and 1950.    Typical of Marx to continue to use whatever worked, he later adopted the M10005 power car and its articulated tender to power several both windup and electric freights as late as 1954.  I also read that an unpowered A version was made to create a AA power unit late in the game. One more thing, Marx sold the M10005 in the consist configuration you have but also with various numbers of coaches.  So you could get a 3,4,or 5 unit train...the power car was always the same.

One more bit of conversation.  The 4 wheel power unit you have in your Mercury locomotive is incredibly robust.  More interesting it was used with a bewildering array of Marx locomotives.  Just by chance, it happens to fit nearly perfectly in the Hornby clockwork tank locomotives and I was told by a friend in the UK that they often came to York (huge train show in Pennsylvania) and bought (usually cheap) Marx locomotives so they could remove the power unit and make electric engines out of their clockwork Hornby tank engines.  I actually have 3 of those and they are great fun and run like MAD!!

OK I have taken up enough of everyone's time.

Best wishes...Great Set Fatman, personally I have yet to come across one I can afford so it is still on my wish list.

Don

Last edited by Don McErlean

Hi Don .. thanks again for the great synopsis ... I was very well aware of the UK people doing mad conversions with Marx motors , also explains why there are sooooo many Hornby Mechs out there looking for a home lol

UK modellers are pretty frugal I reckon and when electricity came to villages more reliably there was a great cottage industry of them removing clockworks and trading out with power units , and 100% Marx was the go to as they were so reliable and cheap at the time.

I am not unfamiliar with Marx Motors as I have a few electric Marx in the collection , an earlier CP rake as well as several British Marx units in clockwork and electric , as well as a British Marx Silver Link ...

Marx made a big mistake with these units , by making them almost Bullet Proof!   I have yet to come across one that didn't at least TRY to run when you put power to it , often after decades of just sitting ... Many manufacturers would like to be able to claim that ability I think ?

The British Marx graveyard ... and yes ALL of them will still run LOL

@Fatman- share your view about the Marx motors. A few years ago my β€œvery expensive β€œ locomotive failed on Christmas Eve … no life , no run .  Desperate I went to my storage closet and dug out an old Marx plastic 400 that I know I bought at a local train show for 5$.  A drop of oil on the gears and despite having not run for likely 10 years off she went and saved Christmas.

Best wishes,

Don

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