TIU not providing power

If you have power at the input and nothing at the output, you probably did blow the fuse. There are TVS components that can clamp but you'd see a dead short.

In the future, install a single car type blade 10 amp fuse inline with the hot input between the transformer and each TIU's channel input. When it blows, it's simple to see and change out.

thanks Joe

Just got back from a trip so this is my first opportunity.

I'm not seeing the fuses.  Hopefully I'm just missing something.

I see 4 yellow 20 20amp maybe ?

I hope that's it.   I just thought they would like more like this:

Yes, the four 20 amp blade fuses are the ones in question.  Doubtless you'll find one of them is open.

Hey guys,

Been out of town so this is the first chance I've had to look at this and since I'm famous for breaking stuff I wanted to be sure I'm doing it right.

So do you  just grab one of these little yellow guys and yank or are they clipped down somehow and what am I looking for to tell if the fuse is blown?

I'll be honest I haven't messed with fuses since my 77 deville.

They should pull right up out of their slots, then just looking at the fuse, it should be apparent as to which one(s) is(are) blown.  In the close-up photo, you can see the upside-down U shaped conductor, it won't be in one piece in the blown fuse:

So get  this.  The fuses are fine.  I ran the TIU  with an mth power supply on my o layout and its fine so I'm stuck looking at the dc power supply as bad I guess.

What exactly was the DC power supply?

I run large Bridgewerks DC packs (25 and 30amp) so I have a 10 amp auto blade fuses in each of the TIU's red line ins.

I'll have to grab it and do a screenshot.  I know its an 18v DC.   Bought it from a reputable guy (rayselectrictrains)

One other question. For the inline fuse do you need two one for each line or just one for both lines?

I put one in the hot line in only. I put one in each channel. Using DC power, you can only use the 2 fixed channels. So I have 2 fuses per TIU.

I'll take a look at Ray's site for the DC power.

Engineer-Joe posted:

I put one in the hot line in only. I put one in each channel. Using DC power, you can only use the 2 fixed channels. So I have 2 fuses per TIU.

I'll take a look at Ray's site for the DC power.

Ok this is what I came up with.  Both with 10 fuses.  Will this work ok?

Sure. You only need a fuse in one of the lines (to each channel). The other just gets a wire connection. You now have 2 fuses in each channel. Won't hurt anything. Use ten amp fuses if you're wiring thru the TIU.

Your power supply is only one amp! I would suggest either a larger one, or you could use smaller fuses to protect it better.

I stated ten amps because that's the max the TIU should see. I'm not sure what that power supply is capable of in a dead short? Rated at one amp.

That 1A supply is barely enough to power the TIU, and I doubt you need to put a fuse in it.  I'd just power the aux power supply port with it.  If you add any AIU's, you'll have to consider a larger power supply.

Would you gentlemen have a power supply to recommend?   

The HO layout is only 2 trains about 6x9 separate tracks

I'm out! You're asking the wrong guy here from my standpoint. Talking to me will cost you extra! I like extra power.

I have Bridgewerks DC packs powering my G scale. I have 25 and 30 amp supplies outside for the 2 mainlines. I have a smaller one inside for G scale that's maybe 20 amps?

My O scale 2 rail runs with 4 Lionel PH180 bricks AC and a MTH Z4000 AC on the upper 3 rail loop.

I don't run HO scale. If I did, the way I like to run big, long consists, I'd have extra power. I'd figure at least 2 trains with five engines each. I'd have to figure out what each engine with smoke on draws and multiply by 12 for spare power. At that point I'd be using at least 2 channels so each pack would have around 8 amps? ( rough guesswork here)

Buy a Z-500 brick to power the TIU, it'll also power any AIU's you add later.

I believe you're stretching the use of that small pack. It can power a single engine. If you're powering the track thru the TIU, you could/should get more power. Most everyone on this forum runs AC packs with their 3 rail trains in O scale. I believe the HO side of this forum will continue to grow. 

If you got the small MTH DC wall wort from Ray's site, here's a description of it's designed use:

The ZDC24 is a small wall outlet DC power supply designed to plug into the M.T.H. DCS Remote Commander for users looking to utilize the DCS Remote Commander on HO DC model railroads or into the M.T.H. TIU auxiliary power port for those looking to power up the TIU electronics.

The CSA-approved power supply plugs into any standard AC wall outlet. The barrel jack connector snuggly plugs into the DCS Remote Commander receiver and outputs 16 constant voltage DC volts to the track.

Goodness yes Joe, I was just suggesting the Z500 to power the TIU from the aux port, the track power would come from something considerably larger!

I wasn't talking to you...…..  GRJ. 

I thought that's the original power supply he had. I wouldn't use it to power the trains. My TIU aux power alone, is larger than that one.

Here's what he posted:

Would this work?

https://www.hobbylinc.com/nce-...pply-transformer-238

That certainly has enough power (13.8V DC x 5 Amps = 70 Watts) but for $55, it is somewhat spendy at about 75 cents per Watt. 

Here's a 90 Watt DC adapter with selectable output voltage for about $10 of eBay (free shipping from US seller).  If you don't do eBay, these universal laptop charger replacements are widely available.  For these widget I expect to pay about 10 cents per Watt.

Obviously, if you have a spare Z-500 (50 Watts) or the like sitting in the garage gathering dust then by all means use that as GRJ suggests.  But if you are buying a new power source for TIU AUX, I suggest a DC-output adapter.  Here's a photo from an earlier thread.   As i recall, the AC-output brick will also set you back ~75 cents per Watt. 

It was advised to run MTH HO trains on DC power. If that is correct, we need to recommend DC packs.

The first release of MTH HO engines, were DC only. So maybe that's where the recommendation stays?

DCC would be a different animal.

“HO Trains That Do More,” including sound-equipped locomotives compatible with all HO operating systems: analog DC, NMRA- standard DCC, and M.T.H.’s Digital Command System (DCS). M.T.H.'s HO items are identified with item numbers that begin with "80" "81" or "85".  Learn More.

yeah I've got the z1000 for my O gauge setup.   This one is just easier to set up around the indoor pond and it keeps the warden from complaining as much.

And MTH HO is DC only that's correct.

You could use a large amp full bridge rectifier to convert the Z1000 to DC. I'm not sure if that's the best thing to do here? You'd have to protect it with a fuse I bet.

If I pick up the one off ebay I can use the z1000 pin adapter.   I'm assuming the TIU is smart enough to deliver the correct amount of power?  Just being cautious since this thing says its for laptops with a wide voltage range.   Appreciate the advice.

I'd  rather have the DC run the TIU and trains because the warden doesn't like a lot of cords around the pond.

I had to go back to the beginning.  I was thinking your problem was how to power the TIU itself via the AUX PWR jack.  Now I see this is an HO DC application.  OK - now I'm onboard!

Being the consummate cheap-skate I cringe at the cost of the MTH pin adapter!    For less than $1 you can get a coax plug to screw-terminal adapter...albeit you'd have to wait for Asia shipping.  So it would be something like this:

In this example, the DC-output laptop adapter is shown set to 18V DC.  The TIU itself will steal about 5-10 Watts of power to do its thing (unless you provide external TIU power via the AUX PWR jack).  That leaves ~80 Watts of motive power which is generous for most HO layouts even driving multiple engines.

Note that Joe mentions G-gauge power.  This really is a case of apples-oranges.  The Bridgewerks supplies are DC beasts (in the positive sense of the word) but overkill for your application.

As for the TIU being "smart enough" to deliver the correct amount of power, it's actually the engines that only draw as much power as they need.  Think of it like your house wall outlets.  You can plug in a 1 Watt nite-lite or a 1000 Watt hair-dryer.  Hope that makes sense.

It does.  Thanks Stan. 

And I already had the MTH pin adapter being the sucker that I am

C'mon Stan, you're hurting my feelin's….. NA. Just kidding. I only mentioned large G scale packs to emphasize bigger power and the need to protect the TIU fuses.

You paint a better picture than I could here. I was just surprised that he had such a small power pack at first and wished to protect it.

Engineer-Joe posted:

...I was just surprised that he had such a small power pack at first and wished to protect it.

I'll bet anyone that this HO power pack design, sold under many labels/brands, and delivering a whopping 6 V.A. (i.e., 6 Watts) is the most common train transformer in the world!