Track Screws on Layout Without Homasote

I used a number 6 countersink to flush the screws into my ross/gargraves track.  I used a number 4 screw.  This allows you to use it as a pin to hold the track into the place you want it, but not transmit the sound from the track into the nail and into the plywood.

@NJCJOE posted:

I know some people will remove the screws after the track is ballasted, but I don't think I would be comfortable with no screws holding flex track.

So, is it a big deal screwing into the plywood sub-roadbed or am I overthinking it?

Have you considered using adhesive to affix the track, perhaps with screws initially until the adhesive sets up? Ballasting at the end should make sure that your track (even flex track!) isn't going anywhere until you want it to (and maybe not then either!).

I did Steve. I seemed like a lot of extra work if it turns out it isn't necessary.

I gotta wonder how much transmitting of vibration would take place if you used drywall anchors in the plywood. It would be a lot of extra work.

I am using some Atlas track screws sparingly (about every 3 feet) and it doesn't seem to transmit the sound through the screws. As it turns out, big engines flying by makes a lot of noise on their own with all the metal moving. Some of my new engines I can actually hear the gear box whine (I greased it and it's quieter now).

Joe,

I am in the middle of construction. However, before I started, I had a nice sheet of AC multi-ply. I set it up inside the room I am using, and setup some temporary arrangements. Including rigid foam, Homasote, just plywood, etc.

I setup 8' lengths of Gargrave track.

To my ear running scale steam and diesels. The Homasote and roadbed made the biggest reduction in noise transmission.  Using no screws (adhesive), Minimal screws # 4 into ply every3', and lastly lots of #4 screws so track was very secure. Surprisingly, lots of #4 screws and very secure track was the quietest.

I only used my ear and did not record any data so not very scientific. I decided I would use Homasote over 3/4 ply Lots of 1"#4 screws holding Gargraves flex over cork roadbed, over 1/2 Homasote, over 3/4 Ply. I also attached benchwork to wall studs. I am very pleased.

Just one more opinion but the bottom line for me was those small #4 screws did not transmit more noise than they minimized by holding the track secure. I know this is contrary to popular opinion but works for me when bending a lot of flex.

kevin

Joe,

If you are using open grid benchwork, there will be no large plywood areas to vibrate and amplify noise. Go ahead and screw it down to the narrow plywood sub roadbed. Noise will not be a problem.

Jim

Joe, Didn’t seem to be a big deal, it’s more construction than modeling.

Question, you Gentlemen think the increase in noise will be noticeable depending on screws or fasteners used into plywood? There is so much other noise from running, crew talk, tower talk, horns,railsounds ect.

I have tubular / foam roadbed / outdoor carpet / foam / lastly plywood. I used #6 drywall screws black with #2 sq head and also if I remember #4 screws black #1 sq I don’t see a difference between the two. But that’s just me.

I’m impressed with layout’s using open bench work. Seems that would take a whole lot of preparation and planning

JM2C

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@NJCJOE posted:

I did Steve. I seemed like a lot of extra work if it turns out it isn't necessary.

Well, I guess that's in the eye of the beholder, but running a line of adhesive down the ROW and spreading it a bit with a putty knife before applying the track and weighing it down until it sets up doesn't seem like a lot of effort, and appears to anchor the track firmly without direct attachment to the 'sounding board'. I should note that I've not actually used this technique personally (I used small nails through the holes in O-27 track, through foam roadbed into half inch extruded foam board over half inch OSB), but all the commentary I've seen is highly complementary.

I keep trying endless suggestions to quiet down track noise and ended up running them slower to keep from going deaf.   That works on all of them.

John

If you're using cookie-cutter design with narrow elevated sections, I doubt it'll be nearly as noisy as a large slab of plywood.  The noise is function of not only the connection of the track to the base, but also the size of the sounding board.

Great information.

Thanks to all posters !!!

CB&Q Bill

I appreciate the input guys. Thank you.

Anybody ever use a finishing nail gun to lay track?

I didn't for one reason.  I may want to take the track up to move it or otherwise alter the plan.  It would be a PITA if I shot #18 brads into it!

Good point John. Didn't think of that.

Lately, I’ve been using Gargraves ½” and ¾” #4 screws (PN 807 and 808) for my Gargraves track.  I used to use much smaller brass screws.  I have rolled roofing (to simulate ballast) between the track and sheets of plywood/particle board.  Any noise from that method doesn’t bother me, but then, my wife says I don’t hear well.

I have been using pin nails. smaller than finishing nails and they are nearly invisible on gargraves/ross ties. They are very small, 23ga. The track can be carefully pulled up if you change track plans and the pins pull out of the ties AND the table pretty easily.

@woodsyT posted:

I have been using pin nails. smaller than finishing nails and they are nearly invisible on gargraves/ross ties. They are very small, 23ga. The track can be carefully pulled up if you change track plans and the pins pull out of the ties AND the table pretty easily.

That sounds like the nails I've been using. Since they're only about an inch long, and I was securing my tubular track through foam road bed into half inch extruded polystyrene over half-inch OSB, the nails really didn't penetrate to or into the OSB -- a gentle lifting is all that would be required to loosen them, but they did provide pretty good directional stability all by themselves. Of course, with the ballasting now complete, everything is definitely rock solid!

@Steve Tyler posted:

That sounds like the nails I've been using...

I was just kinda shooting from the hip when I grabbed my pin nailer. I remember all the drilling and careful screw twisting to avoid crushing the ties, etc... so I thought I would try it. so far, so good

@woodsyT posted:

I was just kinda shooting from the hip when I grabbed my pin nailer. I remember all the drilling and careful screw twisting to avoid crushing the ties, etc... so I thought I would try it. so far, so good

Ah, sorry, I misread your post -- my nails are purely manual, individually nailed (or more often, just pushed in with my thumb!).

@Steve Tyler posted:

Ah, sorry, I misread your post -- my nails are purely manual, individually nailed (or more often, just pushed in with my thumb!).

Pin Nailer

I've used these too Finish Nail Driver/pusher to push brads/small nails in for tracks too