Train room color temperature lighting

I'd buy one or two to experiment.  

See if you can get 4000k.  Like you found 5000 and above can be too garish. 3000 may be too warm(yellow).

We have  4000 kelvin dimmable R-40's in our kitchen.  I know it is not a train room, however when the lights are dimmed the color rendering  stays very true, just not as bright.  We have 5000 K in our bed room and if it were me I would   try the 4000 as suggested above.

RRMan,

Lutron makes a nice dimmer specifically for LED dimmable bulbs.

I have the 5000k Par 30, 65w. I find them harsh at full brightness. I do like them at less than full brightness. Still good detail (oops will show), but not like a clear summer day.

I believe a mix of the temperatures will provide the result that you want. I do prefer the daylight over the warm white for the layout lighting.

I had done most of my layout high-lighting with the smaller spot/flood lights 30/40/50 watt. Incandescent.  The whole world changing rapidly, I acquired spares some time ago.  At the time low voltage lights (12 VAC) could do a better job of spot lighting, but the basic delivery system would be different/ more expensive. .  

Track lights with a couple of different heads, and a few small recessed  cans.

Slide show.   Click to access.

Camera walk-around.

We had done a thread some time ago.   An interesting light system,  where the flood/spots had the three primary colors. Red/Blue/Green.  You could control color and intensity of the lighting with a remote control. 

Previous Lighting Thread.   Click to access.

Keep in mind that for accurate color in photography you need a consistent color temperature.

Will LED's cause fading in the paints of the trains, live some of the conventional lighting projects do now?

Dominic Mazoch posted:

Will LED's cause fading in the paints of the trains, live some of the conventional lighting projects do now?

No, Leds do not emit UV or IR radiation. Read the following excerpt from the Northeast Document Conservation Center

• Light Emitting Diodes (LEDs) are semiconductor devices (materials with electrical conductivity) that can emit a specific spectrum (color temperature) of light depending on the semiconductor material used. LEDs do not emit UV or IR radiation and the light does not generate heat (although the conductor box does). They can supply light for a lower energy cost and have a longer lifespan than other light sources. There is a wide variance in color temperature and CRI and the intensity of the light can diminish over time. 

Dominic Mazoch posted:

Will LED's cause fading in the paints of the trains, live some of the conventional lighting projects do now?

Dominic,

The LEDs I am ordering says no emitted UV or IR radiation so assume that paint and the like will remain the colors they were (or have faded to).

Showing color temperature ignorance, the bulbs I am looking at come as either 3000* or 6000*K, so if I were to alternate bulbs would the blended light in effect hit somewhere around 4500-5000*K, or would there be noticeable yellowish and bluish spots on layout?  I know incandescents radiate other color temperatures around the designed one, while LED are monochromatic with no other radiated temperatures.

I run 4100K LED bulbs (48)  in the high hats in my train room.  5000k was too 'blue' and 2700k was too warm.  I use a Lutron dimming system which works well.  I will say that when you dim the bulbs to a certain point you get a noticeable flicker which can be annoying but nevertheless there is still plenty of acceptable dimming range.  The bulbs are 12 watt bulbs which are comparable to 85 incandescent.  They give off no heat.

dick

I would suggest you look at this document if you are interested in LED safety, specifically the part about Blue Light Hazard.

http://www.lightingeurope.org/...les/CELMA_ELC_LED_WG(SM)011_ELC_CELMA_position_paper_optical_safety_LED_lighting_Final_1st_Edition_July2011.pdf

Blue light hazard is a known problem with LED lighting.  It is a topic that you can Google.  Note that medically it is the evolution of a physiological experience called Purkinje Shift.

Regards,

Lou N

Heres an old post by David Minarik regarding some trainroom lighting. I was impressed with the results and whenever I stop running trains long enough to upgrade my trainroom lighting, this is what I will go with:

https://ogrforum.com/t...he-train-room?page=1

rrman posted:

Showing color temperature ignorance, the bulbs I am looking at come as either 3000* or 6000*K, so if I were to alternate bulbs would the blended light in effect hit somewhere around 4500-5000*K, or would there be noticeable yellowish and bluish spots on layout?  I know incandescents radiate other color temperatures around the designed one, while LED are monochromatic with no other radiated temperatures.

Although it may look good to your eye, unless it's a homogeneous color blend, your camera will not be able to reproduce accurate colors. Many modelers have used a combination of incandescent and fluorescent lights because they like the look. However, when doing photography you shouldn't mix color temperatures. If you set the white balance for one color temperature, the areas that are being lit by the other temperature will be off. If you put your white balance between the 2 then all colors will be off.

rrman posted:

Showing color temperature ignorance, the bulbs I am looking at come as either 3000* or 6000*K, so if I were to alternate bulbs would the blended light in effect hit somewhere around 4500-5000*K, or would there be noticeable yellowish and bluish spots on layout?  I know incandescents radiate other color temperatures around the designed one, while LED are monochromatic with no other radiated temperatures.

RR,

I think you will notice the difference.  Not sure it would look as good as all the same color temperature.

We're relighting at our club layout and we're going to try a few of each then decide on one!  Good new is that we're finally getting rid of those lousy looking CFL screw-in bulbs..... hate 'em!

Ed

Thank you all for your replies. Never too old to learn something new here!

I just had my basement finished and we used Cree TW Series 65W Equivalent 2700K recessed LEDs.  They are spaced in a 4 foot grid over the layout area.  2700K matches the tone of incandescent lights.  The bottom line with color temperature is to pick one that is pleasing to your eye.  All modern cameras will allow auto or manual adjustment of white balance, but as Dennis pointed out, this will only work if you don't mix lights of different color temperatures.

Another important factor to consider is quality of LED bulbs.  Lower quality bulbs can have an annoying buzz, flickering, or inconsistent color (measured by the Color Rendering Index CRI).  Also, the heavier the bulb, the better.  Heavy bulbs have a larger heat sink, which will prevent premature failure.

Cree bulbs have had consistently high ratings and I am very happy with the TW Series.  They are also available as regular screw-in bulbs.  You will also need a dimmer that is designed for LED use.

Here are the bulbs I used.  Funny thing, they are $25 at HomeDepot.com, but around $16-17 in the store.

Bob

I've used Cree bulbs since Jan 2013...haven't had a bad one yet. They come in the bright and yellow cast lighting with 40W, 60W. A new 100W has come out and I use it in the garage and laundry room. All are dimmable. They are heavier and more robust plus the finish on the bulb itself is not slippery, making a bulb easy to drop.

George (G3)

The Home Depot  Picture make sense now about wiring up of the fixture.

So, please this regard my massage about the wiring up of the fixtures. 

Good luck, John

Light color choices:  Daylight, similar to  sunlight, should contain most all colors. IMO, tends to be a harsh white light.    Warm,(or soft white), common choice for indoor lighting. Heavy on the red end of the spectrum.   As bulbs burn-out, it has become difficult to match existing colors, lamp profiles, wattage.  IMO, Mike CT. 

Link to a very good thread, on color.    Click on the underlined phrase. 

My setup includes puck lights in a set of 6 with a controller. You peel of the sticky

covering and mount them on the underside of your shelf, facing down to the

shelf below……..use controller to turn to red green blue white.

cheap easy

This is a six year old thread but the info is still valid!

I found that 3000K lighting was best for the magazine photography I did.

Like Dennis B said back then - don't mix bulbs of different color temperatures in the same area. Your camera will know and produce mixed results. Still true!

Jim

I have found i like the higher k lights overall.  My fish tanks use high temp white with a mix of blue.  I am looking for a blue led to add to the 5000k led lighting to see if there is a difference.   To my eye the lower k lighting seems to be on the yellow side and not as natural as i prefer.

I recently was as an Engineer working for a company that makes commercial lighting.  We offer our light fixtures with a range of color temperatures from 2700K to 6000K.  It all depends what you are trying to light and the ambience you are trying to achieve.  To summarize Higher numbers more blue/whiter, Lower numbers more yellow/orange.  For more accurate "color rendering" you generally want higher numbers.  But your eye can be fooled by how colors are they are lit.

One definite no-no is mixing color temperatures, unless you are trying to achieve different effects.  For instance have seen large layouts that depict different seasons.  Winter/use high K (white),  Fall use low K (orange).  The different lights can be used to accentuate the colors, on the layout, similar to the way filters were placed over the camera lens back in the day for lets say, sunset photography.

Also the screw-in LED bulbs have made Huge strides in the last few years.  Keep in mind that there will be color shift as they age, but incandescent bulbs also did that.

Lastly dimming LED bulbs does NOT cause color shift, although your eye may not see it that way.  Dimming Incandescent definitely did cause color shift (as they were dimmed the filament color actually changed).  Don't to stare at one to see!  Or at LEDs.  I don't want to be sued for causing anyone to go blind.  LOL - Jim

Both the layout room and the workshop have 4100K LEDs on dimmers.  It's a nice, natural light.

George

2700 -  3200K is a good range. Simulates incandescent very closely. H

For my layout photography, I use professional 3200K fresnel lights. Studio and location "hot" lights, as they are called, are  3200K.  These lights are typically used in stage lighting for theatrical productions and interior movie sets. Additionally, I now use 3200K LED panel lights. LED lights are rapidly replacing "hot" lights for studio use. They're light and they don't get hot. They also come in bi-color, variable from 3200 to 5600.

However, you don't need to use professional 3200K lights for your layout photography. As I've previously said, the key is using a consistent color temperature whether it be 3000 K, 4100 K (most flourescent shop lights), or 5000K. You may prefer warm (3000K) or cool (5000K) but your camera doesn't care, as long as they're all the same color temperature.

For those who might be considering options for layout lighting you may want to consider LED flat panel lighting. You can select color temp between 3000K-4000K-5000k with the flick of a switch. they come with remote controls and are dimmable. sizes are varied but 1x4, 2x2, 4x2 are pretty common. They can fit in drop ceilings or surface mount. they can also be chain drop suspended.

They are only 1-1.5" deep and so good in a low ceiling room. They also have great beam angle as opposed to some fixtures that are spots. Not long ago I installed several for a customer and they were thrilled with the finished product. A wide selection available on Amazon with multiple unit packs at a good discount.

Kevin

I have 3000k LED lights in my basement and love them.

Great topic !!!

Thank you to all posters !!!

CB&Q Bill