Train table construction: Proper lumber and sheathing

In my opinion, it is best to use light pine lumber for frame construction. All the legs for our layout were 1X4" pine glued together at 90 degrees, using TightBond Professional Wood Glue (the screws were removed after the glue set, in order to assemble more legs). Framing for the top was all 1X4" with a 1X2" glued on top to for an "L girder" for strength. Since we wanted the layout to be strong enough to support at least 3 or 4 adults on top during track & roadbed laying and buildings & scenery installation, we used 3/4" roofing plywood. The whole layout was free-standing, i.e. NOT attached to any walls or floor, yet it was extremely strong and ridged.

I suspect that many people, including perhaps the author of the book, subscribe to the theory that it is better to overbuild than underbuild.

My medium sized layout (essentially free-standing) was constructed with 2 X 4 legs and 1 x 4 framing and 1 X 4 cross members installed 16" O.C. It was then sheathed with 19/32" plywood with one good side and topped with 3/4 rigid foam board. Everything was glued with construction adhesive and screwed with drywall screws of various lengths.

All I can say is that in "real-life", as opposed to theory, that was more than sufficient to comfortably bear the weight of my 190 lb. frame to crawl on top of it with no sag and it is now in it's 5th year of existence.

IMHO, the key is the frequency of the cross-membering, more than the dimensional size of the lumber used - just ask a beaver.

I used 1/2" birch plywood on top of birch plywood framing secured with pocket screws. In 5 years, I haven't seen any sagging. I don't intend to walk on my layout. IMO 100% plywood construction will be more stable and I strongly recommend birch over pine.

Additional legs were added to the curved corners after this picture was taken.

I would use Mianne (forum sponsor) for a table of that size. Saves all the headaches of doing it yourself. Your time and material would probably equate to what it would cost to buy it in a box. I'm working on a 6x9 track plan and am going to use Mianne.

Yup, L Girder. 1X2 flange and in my case 1X3 web ( plenty strong because a 12'6" X 20" narrow shelf layout). Glued, of course and I leave the screws in because lazy but they aren't needed. Lots of 1X2 joists on top of the L Girders and ¼" Luan decking (because I knew I'd be experimenting with track-plans and changing the decking). 

I highly recommend this book. I have a 16 X 20 U-shaped layout with only 12 legs and could have done it with 10. Made it so much easier crawling underneath. It also supports me on top whenever I have a reach I can’t make. I used 2X4s for the legs because I had them already. All the rest is 1X. Top is 5/8 plywood with 2” foam and ceiling tile, making it easy to contour for streams and roads. The ceiling tile also makes for quiet Fastrack. 

1 x4 clear pine is sufficient for these types of tables, if properly spaced.  The one's that are shown above are properly spaced.

But, here's the thing.   Clear 1x4 pine is sometimes 3 times the cost per foot of a clear pine 2x4 stud!  So, why not use the 2x4, which is three times as strong?     Weight you say?    Ever held a  piece of clear white pine 2x4 after it has dried for 2 or 3 years.  It weighs practically nothing.  In fact, it is amazingly light.

Single 2x2's for legs?  They are flimsy, really flimsy.  Notice that in the picture on Wescott's book that not only did he have to put two crossed depth supports on each set of legs, but he also had to custom cut, glue and nail triangular gussets to the bottoms of the faces of the leg supports on the faces of the legs on both sides of the layout.    

As an experienced and well paid carpenter, I can tell you that all of that is a complete and utter waste of time, just for the privilege of using flimsy legs.  A set of 2x4s, with short 2x3 diagonal supports from legs to underside of table, and you would be done, and 5 times stronger than the flimsy table on the face of his book.  I think Mike Ashley, who wrote the Classic Toy Trains book, would laugh at that table.

Guys, let me point out something here.   People say, "Well yea my structure  lumber is really thin and small, but my table can hold 250 pounds on top."    Yet as any architect will tell you, being able to hold vertical downward weight means nothing.  In fact, the four sides of a cardboard box, if perfectly aligned, would probably support 200 pounds before it collapsed.

No, it is the horizontal and diagonal external stresses on the sides of the structures that cause them to fail.   That is what causes tall buildings to collapse, not having too much weight on the roof.

Have a 150  pound man routinely lean his weight diagonally against the outer edges of the Westcott table, and I can guarantee you that you're gonna hear wood break. 

Omar, you definitely know your lumber and know how to use the 1x4s in a very well engineered design.  I totally agree about the use of birch over pine. But, birch is tough to find in some places.   Where I am, you have to go into a huge lumber only place and hope they have some.  No big box stores carry it.

But Omar, I would just have to put horizontal or diagonal supports on the face side of those leg sections.  I fear that one really errant lateral blow from a heavy vacuum cleaner, or one collision by a big dog chasing a ball, could split the tops of the legs where they screw into the underside of the top frame.  But then again, maybe your household is more sedate than mine.  :-)

Mannyrock

For clarity, I NEVER said anything about using "clear pine" 1X4" nor 1X2" lumber! Why waste the money? We used that 1X4" with the 1X2" glued to to top, in order to have "L girder construction", which overall was a LOT stronger than 2X4"s and did not warp. We had all the 1X4" and 1X2" pine boards deliver from a lumber yard in our area that mainly dealt with large building contractors, and the Superintendent I knew from a big contractor ordered it all, including the 3/4" roofing plywood, on his account. I then just reimbursed him with cash. Out of the whole batch, we had only 3 1X2"s that warped into hockey sticks, prior to use.  

@John H posted:

 

I highly recommend this book. I have a 16 X 20 U-shaped layout with only 12 legs and could have done it with 10. Made it so much easier crawling underneath. It also supports me on top whenever I have a reach I can’t make. I used 2X4s for the legs because I had them already. All the rest is 1X. Top is 5/8 plywood with 2” foam and ceiling tile, making it easy to contour for streams and roads. The ceiling tile also makes for quiet Fastrack. 

+1 on the Wescott book and L-girder construction approach.

I used 1/2" Baltic Birch multi-ply, it has better stability than most 3/4" standard plywood.  The guy that recommended it to me has professionally built many layouts, and I trust his judgment.  I started with the Mianne benchwork, and by the time all benchwork was complete, lateral stability is not any kind of an issue.  Yes, I can walk on it and I would challenge you to move it laterally without some friends to help.

Nothing wrong with making it super strong, but there's also nothing wrong with making it more than sufficient, but not sufficient to support an armored truck.

New Train Room Finally Getting A Layout!

Two thumbs up for the Westcott book. I built three separate sections, two 5 X 20 and one 6 X 20 (this one secured to a wall) that are all tie together. For the legs I purchased a 2 X 12 lam beam and ripped it to 2 X 2's for the legs. Those three sections all have four legs each. I questioned this whole process but have to say I'm amazed on how strong it turned out. I have 1 X 4's on top of this frame work 16" on center with 1/2" OSB  and homasote for the deck. I'm 205lb and never thought twice about getting on top of it while building the second level. Put this up five years ago and haven't notice a bit of sage anywhere.

Mannyrock,

Train tables do not need to be built to the same standards as, say, a structure with floor loads, roof loads, wind loads, live loads, dead loads, etc., etc.  Or a work table to overhaul the transmission out of your M4A3 Sherman tank.  Building light but strong is far better in my book than building heavy and strong.  Especially if you end up having to move some of the benchwork sometime down the road.  For gosh sakes, it's just a train table!

Here are a few pic's of the 6' x 16' table I built a year ago.  In reality, it's two independent 6' x 8' tables bolted together.  1 x 4 pine framing @2'-0" on center, 1-5/16" (actual) square deck rail spindles for legs, 1/2" Sch. 40 PVC pipe diagonal braces for the legs, with swivel casters to roll the table around.  Not shown are the 4 sheets, 4' x 6', of 1/2" plywood sheeting for the table top.

The table suits my purposes just fine.  I had no plans of walking on it, or overhauling any army tank motors or transmissions on it.  There is a tiny amount of sag of the plywood between the joists, as I figured there would be, but it doesn't hurt anything.  As I figured it wouldn't.

To be blunt, years of experience building train tables trumps zero experience and perceived notions of train table construction any day of the week.  You can build light and strong, or you can build a train table that doubles as stage for a dancing troupe when you're not running trains, whichever you desire.  As long as you're happy with it, that's the main thing.  

I have 2" x 4" ( 1.5" x 3.5" ) built basically into 4' x 4' with 23/32 plywood. I have jumped on it and walk across it constantly, I'm 260 LBS and I do not have any sagging at all.  I use 4" star tip screws to hold it together. then 2" star tip screws to hold the plywood down to the cross members about every 6 - 8 inches. My friend and I have both been up there with no problem which would be about 450 LBs total. My legs are 2" x 4"s 

I do use for legs, 2x4's attached to one another at right angles.  I use 2x4's since for lateral strength I let in my 1x4 and 1x3 stretchers.  I use six sets of legs on each table.  This makes a very stable base.  I then, on 16" centers, attach 1x3's across the table.  I then use the infamous OSB but as thick as I can find it.  Usually this is 5/8's thick (but usually measured in 32's).  I use very few drywall screws to attach the OSB to the base.  And even fewer drywall screws to attach a sheet of Homasote on the top.  This makes a very stable platform as i regularly climb all over it laying track and soldering my drops.  Yes, Birch ply is very stable but is it worth the extra cost when a sheet of OSB is around $25 and Birch ply is $55.  I like freight cars more than a plywood sheet you will never see.

Bill and Jim, You're my kind of guys!

Mixed Freight ole buddy, to be blunt:  You used clear, number 1 grade, pine 1x4s, which I said would be good as long as properly spaced, and you did.  :-)   The legs?  (Hmm).  Now, tell me, what happens why one or two 60 pound five year old boys decide to "pull themselves up" on the end of your table that has zero legs or other vertical support under it?  Crack!  And really, come on, you have to resort to talking about Sherman Tank transmissions?  As the Greek philosophers said, "Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit." 

RickO,

Good question about roofing.  A little background explanation is in order.

Yes, I do lots of carpentry, roof repair, and breezeway building.  But I am not a hack general contractor, who uses the cheapest possible building materials  that will satisfy the local code and charges an arm and leg for it. .  I do custom work only, for upscale people, and I only use the best materials that money can buy.  When I repair or construct a roof, I only use 3/4 inch, APA  Grade Exterior Plywood, with an A side and a B side.   I don't use 1/2 inch, cheap, CDX, with a C side and a D side.  The 3/4 inch exterior plywood can take a lot of water from a leak, for as long as six months, and though it will turn dark gray, it is still very structurally strong.   CDX separates into thin layers and then falls apart,  in short order.

 And no, I don't use OSB.  Why?   Because OSB is not waterproof or water resistant.   It turns to mush if water leaks on or through it.  Got a house with a bad roof leak?  Go up in the eaves, find the leak, and put your fingers in it.  The OSB will pull down in gobs like day old oatmeal.  Even a small leak will ruin it.    A month ago, I went to a nice house, with a leak, and was able to push my fist up through the OSB roof.  That is how lousy that product is.  An no, thickness for thickness, OSB is not nearly  as strong as plywood.

You are indeed correct than nobody is going to fall through a roof made of the cheap CDX or the lousy OSB.  But that's not the point.  The question is, will  they leak or sag after 7 or 8 years, and the answer is definitely yes.  Roofs are made to keep water out of a house, and not rot at the slightest problem.  They are not made so that hacks, with nail guns and circular saws, who call themselves "carpenters" can walk around on top of them 

I would invite you to go to the older neighborhoods of Fairfax County, Virginia, and look at the really nice houses that were built in the 1950s, when 3/4 inch exterior grade plywood was absolutely standard.  Those houses are now almost 70 years old.  And those roofs still look great, no sags, no rot, and straight as the day they were nailed.

Then go to one of your upscale, spec, housing subdivisions, where mini-mansions were built 8 to 10 years ago.  You can see the roofs sagging in the middle of the truss rafters, from the top of the roof  down to the gutters.  You can also see the stripe of dark mold running  down the line, due to the rain constantly running down the sag  channel.  That's what you get when you use a  spec house contractor and cheap materials.

Why don't contractors use the 3/4 inch exterior plywood?  Because it costs $42 a sheet, instead of $12 a sheet.  :-)

I give an absolute, no questions asked, 10 year warranty on all of my work.  What does your general contractor give you when you buy a spec house?  A 1 year warranty!  (There's a good reason for that.)

Well, thanks for showing me your tables. I particularly like some of the unique diagonal supports.

Mannyrock.

Good luck getting good lumber, at least in my area. It all twists warps and bows. Tried using plywood. Got 1 8x8 table built that i might be able to use. Started ripping some more 3/4 plywood. After ripping it bowed like it has a spring in it. Bought some oak lumber. Left it sit for a year. It hasn't twisted but it has bowed.

Nobody in my area will even order any No. 1 lumber for me. Say's it's not available. My hobby building has a dehumidifier in it. Humidity is at 42%. Lumber still does tricks. I'm almost ready to give up.

Feet,

You are absolutely right that almost nobody carries number 1 lumber.

But here's how I get it.  It is EASY.

Almost ever large lumber supplier that I go to lets you go out into the "yard" and has their stacks (huge bricks) of very fresh lumber under roofs.   Because the lumber is fresh (they order it every week), most of it is still in bricks and hasn't had time to dry or warp.

Ask specifically for the places where the Number 2 lumber is kept.  They are glad to let you go out and pick our your own lumber.  They don't have the time to poop around with small buyers, since they are trying to assemble large shipments to send to jobsites.    In every load of Number 2 lumber, of virtually any make or wood (spf, yellow pine, treated lumber) at least 10% of it is absolutely clear Number 1 grade, without a single knot!    These pieces are generally in the middle of the stack, where the center of the tree was cut.   They tend to have lots of grain, since they are from the close in center of the tree, but they are absolutely number 1.    Find your pieces, take them out, and then NEATLY stack all of the lumber you handled back into the load, tight and looking just like you found it.  Nobody will complain.

No mill in the country sells grade 1 yellow pine 2x4s.  And yet, it is easy to find them in the center of the stacks.

When you get your lumber back to your workshop, do not lay it on the floor to dry.  The downside will stay wet, and the upside will dry rapidly, and in 24 hours it will warp.   Lay down screeds of 2x4s, every 3 feet, and lay the fresh lumber across it, so that it will dry evenly.  Keep it absolutely out of any sunlight.   90% of it will dry totally straight, in about 5 days. The other, you can cut into short 2 or 3 foot sections, and use those for less critical work.

Fresh true plywood must remain bundled in a tight heavy stack, out of the sun, until the actual day you are going to use it.   If you lay it out before then, then you need to make sure it can get dry air underneath, out of the sun, and you must weigh down each end.  Doing this, it won't warp, and it will dry true and straight in about  5 days.

Hope this helps.

Mannyrock

Mannyrock,

I am not sure what the point of your post is.  

it seems you are proud of your building experience, and the fact you only use the best materials. It sounds as if you are good at what you do.  

You go on to imply all you see is under built benchwork on many layouts.  Several people share their experience, and you again down play their material and construction choices.

I am sure your benchwork will live up to your standards and support your layout well.  It just seems disappointing that someone who apparently has not built model train bench work feels compelled to lecture people who share their experiences in such a condescending manner.  

My layout used L girder approach similar to the Wescott book, with2x4 Legs.  I use 1/2 osb covered with 1/2 homasote on top for sound deadening.  Unlike your experience my osb has remained intact and sag free despite being in place over 10 years.

@Rich883 posted:

Mannyrock,

I am not sure what the point of your post is.  

it seems you are proud of your building experience, and the fact you only use the best materials. It sounds as if you are good at what you do.  

You go on to imply all you see is under built benchwork on many layouts.  Several people share their experience, and you again down play their material and construction choices.

I am sure your benchwork will live up to your standards and support your layout well.  It just seems disappointing that someone who apparently has not built model train bench work feels compelled to lecture people who share their experiences in such a condescending manner.  

My layout used L girder approach similar to the Wescott book, with2x4 Legs.  I use 1/2 osb covered with 1/2 homasote on top for sound deadening.  Unlike your experience my osb has remained intact and sag free despite being in place over 10 years.

Ditto

And now for something completely different.  Not wanting to reinvent the wheel, a layout showed up as follows: "Table is 9'9" x 6'2" custom built out of 1" x 5" furniture grade red oak. Table  top is 3/4" furniture grade red oak ply wood. Table is assembled with wood screws. Table legs can not be removed. 225lbs.   All track wiring is with heavy gauge copper, every 5' to eliminate dead track spots. Approximately 100' of Lionel Fast Track with six electric switches. Layout has three turn-outs." - $995 plus buildings, plus two lionel blue tooth locomotives and cars, plus plus.  Had $4k invested.

I now know how homer simpson feels about donut's now.

But.  my pickup is 6 foot 5 inches x 4 foot.   So have to rent a uhaul truck, plus handyman movers, for a 900 mile trip, each way.   Overnights,,, wifey says "NO" in the time of Communicable disease.

Call a mover: well several, all wanted the equivalent of moving a studio apartment to move this one table.   having completed a move where some of my stuff was put in one of these less than truckload vans;  it isn't pretty when the goods arrive, having been loaded/unloaded several times for all those partial load delivery's, especially something the mover can use as a table top to try to crush with more goods put on top.  Plus would have the 4k in it for purchase and moving expense.

I had recently bought my wife a Cosco 6 ft x 30 in resin top table.  light bulb goes on  (Table on sale now until nov 1 at lowes for $44 free shipping)  4 tables = 12 ft x 5ft.  resin top, steel frame and folding legs.  Some 4" clamps at harbor freight for $.99/clamp to keep them from shuffling.

For the short term, gonna try this.  Just making final preps for the area in my basement.  Cost of benchwork and table top:  $176, plus $8 for clamps.  If it don't work, i FOLD up 8 legs and it was never there.

But for the traditionalist, when designing your forever foundation for your layout, try to envision the day you have to move your masterpiece.  For the one i lusted for above, the owner needed the third garage space for a new car.  And every realtor listing your house for sale crinkles their nose when they see an immovable train layout, whether indoors or in the garden. 

Nothing lasts forever.  But if you plan and module-late your creation to pickup truck-sized modules,  it is going to move faster (read sell for for real money) than the creation that custom fit every inch of space you had to build, but needs a circular saw to disassemble.

@Mannyrock posted:

Mixed Freight ole buddy, to be blunt:  You used clear, number 1 grade, pine 1x4s, which I said would be good as long as properly spaced, and you did.  :-)   The legs?  (Hmm).  Now, tell me, what happens why one or two 60 pound five year old boys decide to "pull themselves up" on the end of your table that has zero legs or other vertical support under it?  Crack!

One or two 60 pound five year old boys will not be "pulling themselves up" on the end of my table any sooner than they will be pulling themselves up on the roof rafters of the next house you are framing.  You DO keep kids out of the roof rafters, don't you?

@Mannyrock posted:

And really, come on, you have to resort to talking about Sherman Tank transmissions?  As the Greek philosophers said, "Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit."  

Interesting.  After all these years, I finally looked up the definition of "philosophy".  Apparently Greek philosophers were not really engineering or technical types.  And as such, they had nothing to combat cold, hard facts and logic with.  Except maybe low-brow accusations.

Although I feel that this particular topic of yours is slightly condescending towards a large number of active members on this board, I still wish you the best of luck on your O-gauge model railroading endeavors.  I will also bow out of offering any more of my experience/knowledge/ideas to any of your queries in the future. 

@Mannyrock posted:

Feet,

You are absolutely right that almost nobody carries number 1 lumber.

But here's how I get it.  It is EASY.

Almost ever large lumber supplier that I go to lets you go out into the "yard" and has their stacks (huge bricks) of very fresh lumber under roofs.   Because the lumber is fresh (they order it every week), most of it is still in bricks and hasn't had time to dry or warp.

Ask specifically for the places where the Number 2 lumber is kept.  They are glad to let you go out and pick our your own lumber.  They don't have the time to poop around with small buyers, since they are trying to assemble large shipments to send to jobsites.    In every load of Number 2 lumber, of virtually any make or wood (spf, yellow pine, treated lumber) at least 10% of it is absolutely clear Number 1 grade, without a single knot!    These pieces are generally in the middle of the stack, where the center of the tree was cut.   They tend to have lots of grain, since they are from the close in center of the tree, but they are absolutely number 1.    Find your pieces, take them out, and then NEATLY stack all of the lumber you handled back into the load, tight and looking just like you found it.  Nobody will complain.

No mill in the country sells grade 1 yellow pine 2x4s.  And yet, it is easy to find them in the center of the stacks.

When you get your lumber back to your workshop, do not lay it on the floor to dry.  The downside will stay wet, and the upside will dry rapidly, and in 24 hours it will warp.   Lay down screeds of 2x4s, every 3 feet, and lay the fresh lumber across it, so that it will dry evenly.  Keep it absolutely out of any sunlight.   90% of it will dry totally straight, in about 5 days. The other, you can cut into short 2 or 3 foot sections, and use those for less critical work.

Fresh true plywood must remain bundled in a tight heavy stack, out of the sun, until the actual day you are going to use it.   If you lay it out before then, then you need to make sure it can get dry air underneath, out of the sun, and you must weigh down each end.  Doing this, it won't warp, and it will dry true and straight in about  5 days.

Hope this helps.

Mannyrock

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you. 

Well I for one found this thread both informative and interesting . Thanks for posting guys 

In the mid-Atlantic area, poplar wood (aka "tulip" poplar because the leaves are tulip shaped) is relatively cheap and better than common softwoods.  Poplar is often used as a secondary wood in furniture.  It paints well but does not take other finishes.  Lowe's often carries it, Home Depot almost never has it.  You can usually find it in lumber yards that cater to furniture makers.

Here is my old train table support system that worked great !  My train table has 6 legs  that are only 3 feet in length, I used scrap lumber from a job  I was doing .  I too am in the carpentry trade and have the good fortune of acquiring usable scrap lumber .  Attached to the legs one can see I used 1/2 inch plywood for gussets , the other framing  is pre primed regular pine 1x4s screwed together  that was bought at a local Big Box store , cheaper and ready for my paint .  As one can see it is very simple in design  and limited materials .  The leg support system is comprised of two  4'x5' sections =  4'x10'.  Now on top of that I placed  three  4'x6' OSB 1/2 sheets on 1x4 frames , 16" OC .  This design left an overhang around the perimeter , think of it as a large toe kick area .  The three 4x6 sections were then bolted together , 6 bolts total, and then secured to the framing in 12 areas .  This layout was up for quite a while with Zero sagging .  I did test its strength by climbing on to it and walking around as I built it  , all good .   That layout is no longer around but all the framing is in my unheated shop/barn .   Out of curiosity not long ago , I reassembled it to see if anything was damaged or unusable , in hopes of one day having the room to set it up again , this time with standard gauge .  Happy to report all pieces and parts are in awesome shape  with no warping or flaking of the OSB board . Just a quick repaint job and I will be back in business .  I for one don't have kids to be watched and I can imagine that most of these layouts on this thread are not assessable to unsupervised kids . With that being said ,you may have to design a system that fits your needs and one that wont make you worry . Nothing wrong with using 2x material  and 3/4 sheets of plywood if that is what you want .  

John,

Gussets, when properly used like you did in connection with 2x4 lumber, are incredibly strong.

Up until about 40 years ago, when the "industry" started using a cheap 10 inch x 7 inch pressed metal plate to hold roof truss lumber together, all roof trusses were built with gussets.  Go up into the old houses, and you will see them, sound as iron.

Rich and MixedFreight

What?  I don't know anything about building train tables?  What? I have zero experience in building train tables?

Guys, I built my first train tables (three of them)  51years ago, when I had a huge HO layout.

Sumgai,

Great points about having to move a big train table.  An eventual certainty for all of us.  Sounds like you made a good analysis and I hope it works out.

I'm just going to build my layout table in two halves, each 5ft x 4 ft, supported by a double stud down the middle, and the table top cut right down through the middle.  The two halves will be held together by running  six bolts through the double studs, to hold both halves tight.

Then, if all goes well, (but who knows?), when I move, I can unbolt the two halves, unbolt the legs, and move the two 5 ft x 4 ft halfs separately.

Thanks

Mannyrock

Mannyrock,

I stand corrected on your experience building train tables.

I standby my earlier point- your posts come off as condescending and demeaning of others responses. Given you are so knowledgable and experienced, then I can only conclude your post was only to give you a platform to be critical of others approaches and highlight you extensive knowledge of building materials and techniques.

you win, you are officially the smartest guy in the room.

Time to check out of this thread.  There's nothing that we can possibly offer you since you know everything.

Congratulations Manny. You have shown that whatever you do is done and done well.

I built my table with 1x3 and 1/2 plywood. 1x3 frame with 1x3 every 16". Then put 1/2 plywood on top with 1/2 foam glued on that. Trimmed with 1x4 going around outside except where it mates another table or wall. I weigh 250 and my wife is close to 220. We both have been on top next to each other with NO PROBLEMS. Table has been up for over 6 years and still no sag and we both still get up on it to do scenery.

My question to you is this: "Why did you post here?"

The point of posting is to ask for help, offer help or show off how you did something that you are proud of. It seems you wanted help only if it agrees with you.

I can only say good luck. Enjoy the table that you build and most important enjoy the trains.

BUT remember this: When I or other people see your name we most likely will not respond knowing now that it is Your way or no way!

Curtis Homan

Proud of everyone who has helped me many times when I thought I was right and shown lovely that I was wrong. I love this forum and the people in it! All of them!

Yeah, this thread certainly deviated into a "how to build a strong house" concept.

The original post talked about a 5 foot by 9 foot train table.

I'd ask "Why on earth would you ever need to be able to stand on a 5 foot by 9 foot train table?".  I get it for people building 20 foot by 30 foot platforms with  no realistic other way to reach the middle.

Unless you are building it right up against a wall perhaps.  If it's accessible from all sides, it would seem a 2 1/2 foot reach would cover reaching every point on the layout.

I'll certainly think twice before replying to the next "why is there air?" type of question I see.

Here is my Layout Table Top, Benchwork in my Living Room.   1x4 Framing with 1x6 for the Legs.  1/2 plywood top.  On top of the plywood I added 1/2 Celotex.   Only 24" high, I wanted it to be below the window sills.   I can crawl on top with no problem.  It is 11 years old now, holding up just fine.

Steve

@Mixed Freight posted:

Mannyrock,

Train tables do not need to be built to the same standards as, say, a structure with floor loads, roof loads, wind loads, live loads, dead loads, etc., etc.  Or a work table to overhaul the transmission out of your M4A3 Sherman tank.  Building light but strong is far better in my book than building heavy and strong.  Especially if you end up having to move some of the benchwork sometime down the road.  For gosh sakes, it's just a train table!

Here are a few pic's of the 6' x 16' table I built a year ago.  In reality, it's two independent 6' x 8' tables bolted together.  1 x 4 pine framing @2'-0" on center, 1-5/16" (actual) square deck rail spindles for legs, 1/2" Sch. 40 PVC pipe diagonal braces for the legs, with swivel casters to roll the table around.  Not shown are the 4 sheets, 4' x 6', of 1/2" plywood sheeting for the table top.

The table suits my purposes just fine.  I had no plans of walking on it, or overhauling any army tank motors or transmissions on it.  There is a tiny amount of sag of the plywood between the joists, as I figured there would be, but it doesn't hurt anything.  As I figured it wouldn't.

To be blunt, years of experience building train tables trumps zero experience and perceived notions of train table construction any day of the week.  You can build light and strong, or you can build a train table that doubles as stage for a dancing troupe when you're not running trains, whichever you desire.  As long as you're happy with it, that's the main thing.  

How did you make those braces ? 

This reminds me of a music teacher trying to tell Willie Nelson what he's doing wrong.

Interesting topic and responses.  

I second (or third - whichever) the use of Mianne benchwork. 

Strong.  Easy.  Configurable.  Usable.

Hardly any more to ask of benchwork.

Thanks for all comments.

I do appreciate them, except maybe two of them :-),   and as previously noted, I am impressed with several of the unique diagonal supports.

Gunrunner, next time lets discuss firearms.  I have 50 years of continuous uninterrupted experience with those.

Mannyrock

As a modular club railroader with an aging back, I adhere to an axiom from my boatbuilding days: make it lighter and stronger.  The materials used to frame and sheath a house are not in my materials list for module building.   Birch ply and carefully selected #2 pine have proven to be stiff and light.

@Mannyrock posted:

Gunrunner, next time lets discuss firearms.  I have 50 years of continuous uninterrupted experience with those.

Mannyrock

Just how is THAT relevant??????  I assume you are an "expert" in that field also? Did you do any Military service?

@Mannyrock posted:

Gunrunner, next time lets discuss firearms.  I have 50 years of continuous uninterrupted experience with those.

Mannyrock

No surprise there!!! Lol!!!!!