Trains and being on the Autism Spectrum

Mike:

I recognize that it takes a lot to discuss issues that effect you so deeply on a Forum such as this. I applaud you for this outreach. Trains are very therapeutic for many reasons and I am glad that you have found and outlet that brings you joy and interest. An expert in autism, I am not.

I do however work with a wonderful client who serves both adolescents and adults diagnosed with autism. The work they do to enrich the lives of their people served is most impressive. We in the course of our work interface with many of these good folks and can experience the progress that is being made. 

Hopefully, you can find a good train friend that can share your concerns and experiences. They are out there, you just need to find one.

My daughter is a special education facilitator for West Virginia. She attended Marshall U. in Huntington WV. Every Thanksgiving there is a large train show near campus. She would attend the show with me. She noticed how many people brought their children she had seen in the clinic to the train show. This was 10 plus years ago. She did find some studying had been done on the connection between autism and real and model trains.

From her experiences she found the noise, movement and sense of control had a lot to do with the autism / trains connection. So it is an established fact there is a connection. I told her she should do her masters thesis on the subject.....I could be  train expert to interview!!!!

We have discussed this topic before....but thanks for bringing it up again and sharing with us. You may be able to search the archived posts to find more info. Thanks  

Yep; guilty. In addition to my train nut-ism, I am our family's walking phone-book and used to (not so much anymore) identify friends and neighbors' cars by the licence plate number. My kids don't call me "Rainman" for nothing. 

Speaking for myself, I often wonder about the connection between my very strong attraction to models and trains and my occasional "obtuse" behavior patterns over the years. I could go on about this at length but won't. I WILL say that having something complex (layout design and building, track, wiring, features) under my complete control is a big deal. Also the sound and sight of model cars and engines that I find very similar to the real thing is something I find to be a powerful source of stress relief. To be sure, you could definitely call my commitment to the hobby a borderline obsession. Normal or not.

Yes, I too am diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome and may contribute my deep obsession for trains that has never really died down after all these years. I am still dealing with the harsh reality of life and growing up, in that trains have to take a back seat eventually to setting yourself for life on your own.

Interestingly enough, I've read numerous articles where Thomas the Tank Engine appears as the poster child of pop culture characters for Asperger's, because children who have it identified with Thomas more than almost every other children's television show out there. That may explain a lot for me growing up...

I've noticed that modeling hobbies in general seem to attract a lot of people who show autism spectrum symptoms. It appears to me to be a good fit in that modeling requires an eye for detail and can be pursued mostly in private, which plays to the strong points (focus) and de-emphasizes the weak points (communication) of a person with an autism spectrum issue. The ability of someone with autism to micro-focus is somewhat parallel to ADD, but the ADD person (me) will focus for a while, then lose interest and move on to something else. 

We have several members in our Museum organization who seem to have autism spectrum issues. They make valuable contributions, although not everyone can communicate with them. I have difficulty communicating with people with autism, mainly because my career brought me in contact almost exclusively with people having high communication skills. I've found that courtesy and patience are important - as is the case everywhere.

Dodger: Congratulations for starting this thread. I hope it is useful to you and anyone else facing the same difficulties. 

Yes, I've noticed in both of my hobbies--railroads and opera-- examples of individuals with Asperger's Syndrome.  In both hobbies these individuals often possess encyclopedic knowledge e.g. railroad locomotive numbers by individual railroad, or specific opera performances and performers.  They often have difficulty handlng social situations. But they typically respond quite positively one on one when they discover others with their same interests.

lewrail

Well its not just OCD here, but the official verdict is still out.

 And that's all you obsess about is trains? ....

  Trains are just coincidence mostly. But...they are noisy! Plus, Horns!? Whistles!??? That would make no sense for most when away from a layout. So maybe there is something universally binding that is happening

Autism runs in the family on both sides.

I'd be number 4 with Asperger's.

 My nephew "out shines" me by far.

E.g.  A few years ago at 4 or 5 he memorized historical building books as fast as he could read them. He knows hundreds of them. Architects name, style, rooms/name/number, elevator?, build date, cost, is it standing, date demolished, present owner, or new building.

But daily life had to be extremely simplified, and ritualized, to keep him focused and grounded. 

 He likes Thomas, and has naturally learned a thing or two about trains

I think he ready for a upgrade to a "prototypical model".

  Rumor has it, he has denied owning Thomas, but has set up the track and cars outside to show to a young neighbor girl that likes Thomas stuff.(she asked)

  We just haven't figured out if its him protecting Thomas (this share as is, is a huge step) or if its "pre-teen toy shame". I can fix one issue for him    

Be strong enough to revel in your uniqueness ...with a big smile 

Trains are not my only obsession or special interest.  I also enjoy restoring old garden tractors/lawn mowers and incorperate that special interest into my employment as a master technician for a local lawn mower dealership.  I have an eye for detail, just those eyes are aging so the smaller scale trains like N and HO scale are mostly out now. G scale is perfect, I just am unable to afford very much of it. My Lionel set up is all early postwar. I concentrate on trains from 1946 thru 1950.  My very first set was a Marx 3 rail set that used a 6vt lantern battery in the "transformer".  Then my parents got me 2 Tyco HO sets for Christmas 1978, both were broke before that day was over.  We were at my grandparents and after they both broke and they had an upset kid on thier hands, grandpa went to the garage and brought up the 4x6 sheet of plywood with the track for my dad's 1423w postwar set on it.  I ran that set every year at Christmas when at my grandparents and once my grandfather thought I was old enough to care for it properly, I received it for Christmas.  I was 12 when that happened.  For my Birthday in March of '79, those 2 HO sets disappeared and a pair of MPC era Lionel sets appeared. They did ok, but by the Christmas of 1985 I was down to just a Western Pacific Alco FA I got from a hobby shop in Indianapolis.  Both my steamers were down. So that might have helped prompt me getting my dad's set that year.  I still have that set, it will never leave my side. The engine has gotten its mechanism replaced as the studs that hold the reduction gears were worn almost in half.  I also upgraded it to roller pickups from a 1656 switcher so it wouldnt snag my O-22 turnouts.  The deep interest in trains, both real and toy has never gone away. My parents could never figure where it came from. I wasnt diagnosed with Aspergers till I was almost 41 and going thru marriage counciling.  She referred me for testing and I am, without a doubt an Aspie. I only wish I knew sooner, would have helped me learn to cope in a much healthier way.  But post diagnosis, I have learned to better cope with my AS.  And I still love trains!!    Mike

I attended the Big E show 18 months ago with two college professors, one of whom was a Professor of Psychology.  Unbeknownst to me, his academic specialty is all things related to Asperger's Syndrome.  I made a short post about his comments on another forum a few years ago.  His comments are also quite relevant to this thread.

Here is my repeat post (apologies if you've seen it elsewhere):

I had the good fortune to attend the Springfield, Mass show with my great girlfriend (whose fine modeling skills kick mine squarely in the behind), my roommate from college (who's a professor of Chemistry at our alma mater), and his colleague on the faculty who is a professor of Psychology.

The psychology prof. has a condition that causes him to fatigue easily, so he spent a fair amount of time with his Kindle sitting on the sidelines reading.  His condition doesn't diminish the fact that he's a scholar and a challenging thinker and a first-rate train guy.  He's also pretty funny, which is always a good thing.

After we picked him up at one point to join us, he made the remark that the two most common traits he observed among the male participants at the show were that 1) they are all very homely, and 2) they are completely oblivious to their homeliness.

This was a joke of course and we laughed and noted that "well, shoot, all of *US* blend right in", but it led to a good and interesting discussion about the makeup of train guys. I made the comment that, homeliness aside, one thing I like about our hobby is that looking at trains seems to be absolutely race blind. What I meant by this is that if a given race or ethnicity constitutes N% of the general population, then, looking around a big show like Springfield, you can plainly see that the same N% of the train show attendees are of that race. For me, it's a great thing insofar as we're all train guys first and everything else second. In my personal case, it's a pleasure to look out across a big gathering like that and not have it be like looking in one big lily-white mirror.

The psychology prof. thought about my comments for a moment and said: "That's interesting. I had always thought that the reason for what you just said was that all train guys had Asperger Syndrome, and that Asperger's itself is race blind.  Asperger's manifests itself consistently across all humans which is one of the unique things about it.  The incidence of Asperger's in Japan is roughly the same as in the US and the same as in any country in Africa.  Oh, and 9 out of 10 people with Asperger's are men."

He continued: "People with Asperger's tend to be passionate about a very restricted set of interests.  They take great comfort in predictable patterns, ordered sets, and things that require great attention to detail." Then he said, "Anyone who's seen a 106-car ore train go by on a layout, and who took the time to verify that each car had a different road number knows how completely engrossing it is."  He ended by saying, "Mostly, I think it's just a question of whether everyone at this show is high-functioning or low-functioning Asperger's."

We then joked for a while about who among us was high-functioning and who was low-functioning.  When I was caught critiquing whether a modeler's arrangement of 1:48 cow patties on a 1:48 pasture was faithful to a prototypical arrangement that would be created by 1:1 cows, everyone's pretty much screamed, "Low Functioning!!!".   It was a great day.

Steven "barely functioning and pretty darned homely" Serenska

I truly resent this train of thought. I like trains and do not have a hint of autism.

Now if you'll excuse me, I've have to get these 7 dinner plates to spin on the kitchen floor in synchronization by dinner time. I only have 5 hours to accomplish the task.

If my wife catches me, well, you know how it is, she just doesn't get it.

I'm truly surprised that he didn't also observe that:

 1) they are all lacking basic social skills and hygeiene, and 2) they are completely oblivious to either.

Someone needs to get that Prof to a comic book store, he'll see a lot of the same thing. The difference is that model (and real) train fans don't think they're all that very clever or funny. People at comic book stores, however, all think they are, even though they really, truly, aren't.

Those khakis! Hideous.

  It might be regional, here when "at shows, it snows" Its a wave of winter coats, and "polo shirts", tan khakis, jeans, one guy in dirty sweat pants, and the 3 guys that come in from hunting still in camo with Tink #69 buck lure on them.

 Oh, and my smelly non-train buddy that I talked into driving last time. I "finished" and left early after about the third nice engine he picked up without asking, each time letting out a wave of stink. He enjoyed himself, but no more shows with him.

 I can't say I disagree fully with the comics folk observation.

But it goes far beyond autism .

 I sold new and old comics for a few years. A 3am Wallmart visit has got nothing on that hygiene, or intensity level.

 Humor is always funny to someone For some, the whole delivery and grasping of context is a constant social tool, and at the same time also a social challenge.

 An attempt at making me smile is enough to get me smiling. I can take varying intenseness in stride if I "get it" or not. If I don't get it I ask. Guess I'm used to it.     

  Summertime automotive swap meets are the "best of the worst" for bad smelling entertainment.

 Train folk tend to look like they just got out of bed, (and many did, to get there earlier).

As implied, the smell... it could be worse.

Interesting Observations. Personally I have no idea if I may have a touch of Asbergers. I am good at a number of things and I learn new skill quickly. But I have rotated from hobby to hobby and have been very engrossed in each for a number of years.

I still have My RC planes, Helicopters and Jet (ducted fan, not turbine). I still have and work with my rockets and they are far more powerful then the Estes ones. As a matter of fact I attended a high power launch this past Saturday.

Now, Here is a question from that event: We Get and activate an FAA Clearance which activates a NOTAM (NOtice To AirMen) to keep pilots from flying in the danger area while we are launching. So WHY do they come fly circles around and over the field during the time locked out by NOTAM? They are violating FAA rules to come bug us and our rules do not allow us to launch if they are there. We have a limited time to launch all the rockets and they are taking that time.

If a High Power model Rocket hits a small plane the plane is going down! Why? The parachute will probably deploy destroying the flight drag balance of the plane, they don't fly well sideways.