How are you running it? With Remote CDR or conventionally? What happens if you turn the smoke pot the other direction? You can fine LHS to reflash code if necessary, or you can take shell off engine and unplug the smoke fan and heater element connectors. G
I'm running it via remote CDR. I've tried the pot at both extremes. At full clockwise, lots of smoke. At full counter-clockwise, less smoke but still smoking. I apologize for asking as I'm still learning. What is LHS (i assume firmware?) and what is the process for reflashing? Do I need a TIU, or can it be done another way? Thank you, Ken
Read this thread: SMOKE FIX FOR PS3 RTR ENGINE
I'm a MTH train novice (retired from the high tech world) and appreciate your patience while I'm learning. You originally asked if I was running conventional or DCS. The MTH 2-8-0 Christmas train set comes with it's own remote control (with "DCS" written on it but no LCD display). From researching, this is NOT the DCS remote commander you may have been referring to but instead it's a simple IR remote control with buttons for speed, bell, horn, direction, sound, SU/SD, PFA, etc.
I had already researched and read that thread. I believe I have to have a TIU to load the chain file, correct? Is there another way to turn off smoke short of opening up the engine? Or is this a bug and it's either re-flashing or physically disconnecting the internal components. Thank you in advance and i'm pleased I found this forum.
From researching, this is NOT the DCS remote commander you may have been referring to but instead it's a simple IR remote control with buttons for speed, bell, horn, direction, sound, SU/SD, PFA, etc.
If it has an SU/SD button, it definitely is a DCS Remote Commander.
I believe I have to have a TIU to load the chain file, correct? Is there another way to turn off smoke short of opening up the engine? Or is this a bug and it's either re-flashing or physically disconnecting the internal components.
It's a defect in the engine firmware and requires access to a TIU and PC to correct. However, it does not require opening up the engine.
LHS is local hobby shop. Take it back to where you bought it and ask them to upgrade the firmware. If your LHS isn't equipped or willing to do this, find one that will.
The shell comes off easily with 4 screws and you can unplug the smoke unit (both fan motor and element). Easiest solution if you do not have a store near you that can do this. G
Hi, I am new here. I have had a MTH Christmas train for three years now. I am happy with it and only use it during Christmas time under the tree, I would love to have it up all year but have limited space. Last year a month before Christmas the Board burned and I had it replaced under warranty, after reading these posts I think that the new board had a slightly different programming. Prior it was mostly silent unless I used the remote (IR DCS Remote Commander) to turn it on. The headlight used to come on when the train had sound. Firmware update I guess
New board:Now if the train is moving it makes sound, I like this as I can turn down the volume, With the remote. When the train came back the headlight has never come on again. Don't know if it is the bulb or the board or what. Any suggestions?
2. Because I have this up only two months I am happy with the simple remote ( I added a RF battery to the remote that converts the remote to rf-radio so I don't have to aim the ir remote at small or receiver.But I have a four year old, who controls the train all the time perfectly, but he wants smoke once in a while, not all the time because it's in the living room. It is such a hassle to manually turn the smoke on and off and seat the train back on the track. Is there any simple way to accomplish this with out investing in a several hundred dollar remote?
Thank you in advance,
Chris
The DCS Remote Commander has no remote control of the smoke, so you have to use the manual control.
CJDaniel7 posted:...
New board:Now if the train is moving it makes sound, I like this as I can turn down the volume, With the remote. When the train came back the headlight has never come on again. Don't know if it is the bulb or the board or what. Any suggestions?
2. Because I have this up only two months I am happy with the simple remote ( I added a RF battery to the remote that converts the remote to rf-radio so I don't have to aim the ir remote at small or receiver...
Tell me more about this "RF battery" mod to the remote. Seems you also had to modify the receiver to convert from IR to RF?
What is the model number of the train? A few years back there were anecdotal reports of starter-set engines losing lights. This required a reset of the engine which was not possible if all you had was the transformer that came with a starter-set. More recent engines (so-called PS3 or Protosound 3) have the ability to reset the engine using a SND, DIR, - sequence of button presses on the DCS Remote Commander remote. I suppose you could just try this reset - it doesn't work (i.e., your re-programmed engine is not equipped with this feature), then no harm no foul...
My Train is a Model 30-4218-1
with Pronto 3 Sound Christmas Express 4-6-0 steam freight passenger set
IR to RF, cheap and works great, comes with extra RF battery.:
Next Generation Remote Control Extender https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000...cp_api_W-Tyyb9AR81ZX
Smoke : what is the cheapest remote set up to allow remote to allow control of the smoke?
Stan2004 thank you, I just re-read your post about the reset. My instruction book says it must be done at dealer but I followed your instructions and it worked great. So my light is on.
Now to hack the smoke...
I was not aware of your range extender. That you have it up an running on the DCS Remote Commander is a contribution to the forum! 
Unfortunately there is no joy wrt remote on/off control of smoke without going to the full-blown DCS TIU system.
If you are a hard-core DIY'er and like to mess with tiny circuits, I imagine one could modify the engine electronics to do so. For example, your engine does not appear to have an operating front-coupler...yet there is a front-coupler command on the remote. So if you command the front-coupler a pulse is generated on an unused wire in the engine. This signal could be co-opted to toggle a relay to connect/dis-connect power to the smoke unit. The component cost would be modest, say under $10, but much tinkering, messing around, soldering, etc..
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A latching relay might make the smoke on/off a bit easier. There would still be some circuitry, but it would not be that difficult to do. I used a latching relay to toggle my cab lights in a TMCC upgrade as I had already used the smoke output, it was triggered by the coupler outputs.
That Next Generation Remote Control Extender looks really neat! Thank you for posting the information on it.
I had no idea they made such a device...and I thought I spent too much time browsing for nifty electronic devices!
Now, what will they think of next?
Hey I am going to try (over the next year) to work on various methods of tackling the smoke issue, for me and others. I went to my dealer and the cheapest option was at least $400+, I have some non-circuit ideas (I own a nice 3D printer) and am thinking of ways to do this mechanically (maybe magnetically) rather than electronically but I might attack it from various angles. I am glad I found this forum, thanks to everyone for your help.
Smoke: Oh btw in the mean time, for my quick smoke tender turnover, I found a thing that makes re-aligning your train wheels to the track for $10 at my MTH dealer. It is a Lionel 6-12039 "FastTrack Railer" probably well know to you all but for me, With my current Christmas Tree figure 8/oval (not a lot of straight seats in front) much faster to get the tender back on. Thanks all!
That re-railer tool brings up another idea which may not be obvious. If the smoke on/off switch is (apparently) inconveniently located, it can be moved to the top so you don't have to de-rail then re-rail the tender to access it. It is a simple on/off, 2-terminal switch. Since a hole in the tender shell is a somewhat crude proposition, you could use a magnetic sensor/switch of some form. There are both electro-mechanical (e.g., reed switch) and solid-state (e.g., Hall switch) magnetic switches that have latching behavior. So you momentary wave a "North" field magnet over the switch (attached just below the tender shell) which turns it on. The switch stays on (latches) until you "flip" the magnet and momentarily wave a "South" field magnet over the switch. Of course this doesn't address the remote control issue.
If you're scheming a solution for more than your 4-6-0, I'd think you'd want to support both steam (dual-body) and diesel (single-body). While this may not come into play, note that the signals/wires available for the two designs differ. For example, in the case of the front and rear coupler signals, both are available in a diesel body. But in a steamer, the drawbar connection does not carry the front-coupler signal itself...but rather a MTH-proprietary digital signal which is then decoded in the engine to generate the front-coupler signal. In other words you don't have access to the front-coupler signal if you're within the tender. Likewise in a diesel you would have access to the 2 motor wires whereas you would not within a steam tender.
Finally, as illustrated by the SND, DIR, - sequence discussed earlier, Protosound 3 engines can be re-programmed to add functions. That is yet another pie-in-the-sky option is to lobby MTH to come up with another one of these unique sequences to toggle the smoke on/off. A long-shot to say the least, but goes to the issue of thinking through a method of using a sequence of button presses - possibly timed "Morse-code" style - to control smoke. Electronics to detect and differentiate multiple pulses within a time window.
I stand by to assist when you get time to pursue this. Thank you for your imagination!
Some DCS locomotives have a pot to adjust smoke volume or turn it off.
That's a good point. In which case, it seems a homework assignment is to confirm that replacing the 2-wire pot (IIRC it's just 2-wires to the control pot) with a 2-terminal SPST effects simple full-on/full-off behavior. Seems there have been some threads about troubleshooting smoke control where the suggestion was to simply "short" the smoke wires to turn it on.
I suppose for extra credit one could scheme up a method to cycle thru OFF-low-med-high smoke levels just like DCS-TIU by emulating 4 different pot resistance values under DCS Remote Commander control; I suspect simple full-on and full-off is good enough though...
Yes my train has a pot switch. And full on is too much smoke, for me at least. But I get your drift. Will keep you posted. Thanks again.
I was thinking the pots on the DCS engines only worked in conventional mode?
Good point; I think you're on to something.
IIRC the engine examines the smoke switch (or pot) when first powering up in command mode only to determine if smoke is on/off. The variable low-med-high smoke level is then whatever was set/saved by the TIU remote from the previous operating session. In other words the variable level of the pot is ignored when in command-mode whether under control by a DCS Remote Commander or by a DCS-TIU.
Sigh....another homework assignment. 
GGG posted:Are you sure the smoke pot was turned fully off? What about the other direction in case the pot is wired backwards?
If it still won't work, let me have the product # and I can send to MTH so they can see if there is a code issue. G
Hi GGG,
This is happening to me too and I tried what you suggested, but it's still smoking. Also, the train railing was damaging, tried bending the railing, but it feels like I'm going to snap something off. I have the 30-20295-1 I tried clockwise/counter clockwise and it still smokes (I hear the smoke fan too.) This is using the DCS commander.
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That looks like an RS-3? I have one like it, different road name, and the hand rail had the same problem as in your picture. I just bent it so it would go back in the hole, put a dab of CA glue on it, stuck it back in the hole and let the glue dry. That was at least a year and a half ago and it's still holding. Don't use too much CA as I think this needs to come out again to get the shell off. Also, I could be wrong, but my hand rail was metal as I recall? Just be careful bending it, don't get carried away with your strength.
And, my RS-3 has now become one of my favorite engines, very nice and I like the sounds. They kind of grow on you.
rtr12 posted:That looks like an RS-3? I have one like it, different road name, and the hand rail had the same problem as in your picture. I just bent it so it would go back in the hole, put a dab of CA glue on it, stuck it back in the hole and let the glue dry. That was at least a year and a half ago and it's still holding. Don't use too much CA as I think this needs to come out again to get the shell off. Also, I could be wrong, but my hand rail was metal as I recall? Just be careful bending it, don't get carried away with your strength.
And, my RS-3 has now become one of my favorite engines, very nice and I like the sounds. They kind of grow on you.
Thanks RTR, did you have an issues with the smoke unit? Mine stays one regardless of the switch being put in clock or counter-wise. I'm going to try again on the bend. I contacted MTH last week, I heard back from Midge, but haven't heard anything back from her since the first email, 5 days ago.
Edit: Sorry, forgot to answer your question, yep, it's an RS-3
Yes, I did have an issue with the smoke unit, but different than what you are having. I was getting very little, if any smoke output. The engine has a tube that takes the fluid from the smoke outlet on top of the engine to the smoke unit itself. There is a gasket that seals the tube to the smoke outlet on top of the engine, mine was not lined up properly and had a wrinkle in it.
This was directing most of the smoke fluid down the outside of the tube and very little got to the smoke unit. The engine did not smoke well and the bottom of it had smoke fluid all over. That is what got me checking into things. I got the gasket straightened out, installed a new smoke wick and tried it again and all was much better. The shell was difficult to get back on and keep the smoke tube lined up. You can't see inside to make sure everything is going back together correctly, it's all by feel and holding your mouth just right. I must have gotten lucky. 
The engine has the smaller MTH smoke unit with only one resistor and does not smoke like most of their engines, I understand this is normal for this type of smoke unit though. After wiping up all the excess smoke fluid the best I could and re-assembly it has been working well for probably over a year now and no more smoke fluid leaks. I was a bit worried because the smoke fluid was all over the PS3 boards which were right under the smoke unit. Anyway it all came out well, but totally different than the problem you are having. And BTW, good luck with that problem. I'm sure someone will be along withe the solution. There are a lot of very knowledgeable folks around here plus the manufacturers read the forum as well.
Please keep us informed on your progress.
rtr12 posted:Yes, I did have an issue with the smoke unit, but different than what you are having. I was getting very little, if any smoke output. The engine has a tube that takes the fluid from the smoke outlet on top of the engine to the smoke unit itself. There is a gasket that seals the tube to the smoke outlet on top of the engine, mine was not lined up properly and had a wrinkle in it.
This was directing most of the smoke fluid down the outside of the tube and very little got to the smoke unit. The engine did not smoke well and the bottom of it had smoke fluid all over. That is what got me checking into things. I got the gasket straightened out, installed a new smoke wick and tried it again and all was much better. The shell was difficult to get back on and keep the smoke tube lined up. You can't see inside to make sure everything is going back together correctly, it's all by feel and holding your mouth just right. I must have gotten lucky.
The engine has the smaller MTH smoke unit with only one resistor and does not smoke like most of their engines, I understand this is normal for this type of smoke unit though. After wiping up all the excess smoke fluid the best I could and re-assembly it has been working well for probably over a year now and no more smoke fluid leaks. I was a bit worried because the smoke fluid was all over the PS3 boards which were right under the smoke unit. Anyway it all came out well, but totally different than the problem you are having. And BTW, good luck with that problem. I'm sure someone will be along withe the solution. There are a lot of very knowledgeable folks around here plus the manufacturers read the forum as well.
Please keep us informed on your progress.
Thanks, I'm happy it worked out well for you, shame of the hassle on a new unit though. I contacted GGG to see if he is a NASC shop, if not, I will send both MTH locomotives to MTH direct for repair. At ~$30 via UPS (could be more or slightly less), it's well worth the investment of time and money than an exchange since an exchange is not a gaurentee that the new locomotives will also be problem free. My only concern now is that I noticed Grzyboski Trains is not an authorized MTH dealer, at least based on the MTH website [ http://mthtrains.com/dealer-se...ce%5Borigin%5D=18507 ], so I may have to exchange one with them, and the other at Mercer Junction.
I would send it to GGG, he's got a very good reputation here. Many forum members have had him work on their trains and been quite satisfied. He knows what he is doing and does a very good job. I have heard his rates are very reasonable as well. I have one engine with a ditch light problem and will be contacting him about that one of these days.
rtr12 posted:I would send it to GGG, he's got a very good reputation here. Many forum members have had him work on their trains and been quite satisfied. He knows what he is doing and does a very good job. I have heard his rates are very reasonable as well. I have one engine with a ditch light problem and will be contacting him about that one of these days.
Thanks RTR, but I have to do an exchange with Grzyboski, as Grzyboski is not an Authorized Reseller, meaning, no warranty coverage for any parts, so this can get expensive on a brand new item that should work out-of-the-box. It's like buying a TV from PC Richards and being told to ship it to Samsung for repairs in the first two weeks of owning it, and because PC Richards is not "Authorized" to sell Samsung TV's, you have to pay for everything. You just bought the TV expecting it to work for $n dollars, now it will cost an additional expense of your time + shipping + parts to actually get it to work. I'm sure GGG is excellent at what he does, and would send him my locomotives in the future once I'm out of warranty and they need service. But for 2 weeks old, the seller/manufacturer should resolve it. And since MTH is out of the equation, that leaves the seller. After my 4 issues on all new items, I'm beginning to feel like NIB, working with no issues, is like a lottery 
I didn't realize it was new? Sometimes buying from an authorized dealer is worth a little extra. Lowest price is not always the best deal. I just buy most everything from my LHS, they are both an authorized MTH and Lionel dealer and the guy that does repairs is also authorized by both MTH and Lionel. Their prices are a little higher than some of the big dealers, but worth it to me.
rtr12 posted:I didn't realize it was new? Sometimes buying from an authorized dealer is worth a little extra. Lowest price is not always the best deal. I just buy most everything from my LHS, they are both an authorized MTH and Lionel dealer and the guy that does repairs is also authorized by both MTH and Lionel. Their prices are a little higher than some of the big dealers, but worth it to me.
Hi RTR,
I completely agree, the next time, I'll either buy from TrainWorld (which is local for me, and like you said, like in my case with them, much closer to MSRP) or Model Train Stuff (in terms of internet sales, they offer an excellent return policy and love their service and pricing...but their inventory usually sells out fast since their stock is usually on the low side for the items I'm interested in, but they are Authorized Dealers for MTH and Lionel, so warranty coverage is there.)
On a bit of positive news, the strangest thing. Today, as I was about to box up the MTH RS3, I tried one more time. I turned the smoke switch clock/counter clockwise like last time, put back on the track, it smoked. Again, I did the same, but simply switched the position of the train on the track, instead of front on the east bound track, I put the rear facing the east bound track and viola, no more smoke!! It's currently running now on a break-in lap of moderate speed FWD/RVS for 30 minutes each way, and it's performing exceedingly well and the sound is awesome on it, I love it, I just need to fix the railing!
As for the MTH Christmas Train, that's another story, it's been a problem since day one -- but that's for a different thread. But aside from the issues with my specific train, the train in general is a beautifully designed train, with detailing that I'm very impressed with, esp. the sounds/PFA, LED multi-mode chase lighting on the side frame and side wheel-set lighting when stopped (sorry, forgot what that's called), love that detail at that price point, MTH has really impressed me with the biggest value for the $350ish price point.
Thanks again RTR, I appreciate your replies.
You are welcome, glad you got it working. Sometimes I guess it takes a little fiddling to get everything just right? I agree with the $350ish MTH items being the best value available today. The Railking Scale items are a great value, just don't have all the details of a Premier engine.
rtr12 posted:You are welcome, glad you got it working. Sometimes I guess it takes a little fiddling to get everything just right? I agree with the $350ish MTH items being the best value available today. The Railking Scale items are a great value, just don't have all the details of a Premier engine.
The journey continues...I called MTH about another issue with the train, where the cab light is not turning on, which it should be on by default. The tech advised me to do a factory reset because it could have been the dealer tested the train on full DCS system and had set the cab light off. Since I don't have a TIU, we tried "SND + DIR + Vol Down" on my Remote Commander to do a reset which it responded to, but still no cab light, but now it's smoking again!...I'll play with it again, but on top of that, the closest MTH NASC which could fix that in my area has temporarily closed down, the Train Cellar .
Are you sure it has a cab light? I'm thinking mine does not have one. I will check later this evening, but I am almost positive it does not have one. Mine has no cab, it is just the shell you can see through the cab windows. That's probably my only complaint with this engine. It is fairly well packed with PS3 control boards inside though and maybe they just did not have the room for a cab.
If you do have to send it in for warranty work, I would send it directly to MTH, I am sure they will fix it correctly. Also, I don't think MTH pays the ASC's for warranty work (I think it's parts only they pay for) so some of the service places will only work on items that were purchased directly from them. This has been discussed here, but I forget all the exact details.
rtr12 posted:I don't think MTH pays the ASC's for warranty work (I think it's parts only they pay for) so some of the service places will only work on items that were purchased directly from them. This has been discussed here, but I forget all the exact details.
Correct.
I don't think MTH pays the ASC's for warranty work (I think it's parts only they pay for) so some of the service places will only work on items that were purchased directly from them.
ASC's don't get paid for labor and are only required to do warranty work on items that they sold.
NASC's do get compensated for labor and are obligated to do warranty repairs on all MTH products, regardless of where they were purchased.
rtr12 posted:Are you sure it has a cab light? I'm thinking mine does not have one. I will check later this evening, but I am almost positive it does not have one. Mine has no cab, it is just the shell you can see through the cab windows. That's probably my only complaint with this engine. It is fairly well packed with PS3 control boards inside though and maybe they just did not have the room for a cab.
If you do have to send it in for warranty work, I would send it directly to MTH, I am sure they will fix it correctly. Also, I don't think MTH pays the ASC's for warranty work (I think it's parts only they pay for) so some of the service places will only work on items that were purchased directly from them. This has been discussed here, but I forget all the exact details.
Thanks, good question, I bought it from here and it states it does [ https://mercerjunction.com/pro...30-20295-1-rs-3-nyc/ ], but using a flashlight looking into the Cab, I don't think it does, as the body frame goes right through the cab. But even the MTH tech said there is. So IDK. According to the MTH website, it doesn't list a lighted cab, just F5 for lights, but the manual states that it does. Until I get it on a TIU or take it apart, IDK.
Also, three notes:
1. Grzyboski Trains is an ASC, but they are not listed on the MTH site as such. When I called MTH, they confirmed they are and that they needed to be added.
2. The owner of the Train Cellar is an NASC, but he is in the hospital and his business in temporarily closed.
3. After resetting it, turning clock/counterclockwise and physically moving the train left to right and right to left, the smoke is off again.
MTH's web page for the enginedoes not list an interior light. Further, my PS2 model of this engine also does not have an interior light.
Barry Broskowitz posted:MTH's web page for the enginedoes not list an interior light. Further, my PS2 model of this engine also does not have an interior light.
Thanks Barry, I mentioned that earlier, but the MTH tech, I think his name was George and the Manual state that it does have it. It's odd looking not to have it, I mean you have front/rear directional, road number lighting (very nice touch,) but no cab lighting?
