Type S 80 Watts Transformer

I don't know how to open the type S transformer. Might be worth repairing and maybe not. I am more familiar with the post war ZW transformer.

To get the post war engine to run smoother you will need to clean the brushes and armature area, after cleaning you need to lube the gears as well.

Lee Fritz

Will, The whistle tender itself likely needs servicing. I am sure the engine does as well.

Rob

I am very new at this, how does one service a whistle tender ?

Any assistance would greatly appreciated.

Will

Will Davis posted:

I am very new at this, how does one service a whistle tender ?

Any assistance would greatly appreciated.

 

Will

Need more info before being able to tell you how to service the tender's whistle. Info needed is the number on the tender; if post war should have 4 to 6 digits(example 2466W), if modern can have between 5 to 7 digits, usually found on the cab side of the engine.

Also have you tried using another transformer with your whistling tender to make sure it is the tender and not the transformer? Most Lionel transformers with a whistle button should work or an MTH transformer with whistle button will work as well.

Lee Fritz

My whistle only works if it is going so fast.

Good Evening Lee

My  whistling tender is post war 2466W.

My transformer is type S 80 watt. 

Will

My guess is that you probably have two (and perhaps three) things that need to be worked on:

• Your engine probably needs to be taken apart to have its motor cleaned and drive train lubricated
• Your tender's whistle (which has its own little motor) probably needs to be taken apart to be cleaned and lubricated - and might need a couple of other things done to other parts of the electronics
• Your transformer MAY need to have its whistle circuitry checked and a key component (its rectifier) replaced

If you are new to working on model trains, you have a couple of options:

• Take all three pieces to an authorized Lionel dealer that works on Post-War equipment and have them do this work for you.  They'll know exactly what to do.
• If you are up for it, you can try and do the first two items yourself fairly easily.  The Internet has instructions on how to do everything, but you may find it easier to buy this DVD which will walk you through the process.  Repairing a transformer, though, isn't quite as straightforward for someone who hasn't done it before.  The first two items might solve all of your problems - in which case, there's nothing left to do!  However, you might do the first two and find that the whistle still doesn't work.  In that case, for the DIY route you will need to find references on the Internet that talk you through what needs to be done.  Given that you are working with a transformer approaching 80 years old, if you still have problems after the first two tasks are complete - unless you are comfortable working with electronics - I might suggest that you take the transformer to a service center to have them look at it.  That might be a good idea anyway, given its age.  If something is wrong, it might be cheaper to replace it than to fix it - but the dealer should be able to help guide you on this.

Hope this helps!

A-U and B-U are variable for controlling trains.

A-B is 5 V for accessories

B-C is 14 V for accessories

A-C is 19 V for accessories

Hanks132 posted:

Hello All, I just joined this group and have a question.  Does anyone know where I might get a copy of a user manual for the Lionel Type S 80 Watt Transformer?  I have tried Lionel and they provided me with an electrical diagram but that's all they had.  I was given this unit as sort of a pass down but no paperwork.  I get the correct voltage on A+U and B+U but not sure what the C terminal is for.  Thanks

Send it to Davis Lyons in Burlington NC. The cord will likely need replacing as well. If you dont know what you are doing stay OUT of the inside.

Rob

This forum is great.  So many informative replies and so quick!

Thanks to all.

Will, when you get into the loco and tender, be sure you have some spray contact cleaner. A few sprays may solve your issues on the engine and the tender whistle. Everyone has their favorite but you can search the big river site for crc or deoxit, two popular ones.

BMORAN4 & ADCX Rob,

hey guys, HANKS132 needs this kind of info. he is looking for an instruction sheet or at least how to hook it up.

It so happens I had an "S" on my bench yesterday. The cover is held on by four screws.
Remove the knob (mine was press fit), and turn the transformer over. The screws are semi-hidden, but are accessible through four holes in the foot of the transformer base.

I was going to replace the cord as the first step in giving the transformer a once over.

Here is the thing: I really don't care for metal cased transformers to begin with.
Plus I found that the cord was routed from the terminal plate, under the transformer core, to the terminals. The terminals were on the side opposite the terminal plate.

The cord was pinched between the coils and the baseplate. In trying to free the cord, I moved the terminal plate and a couple of the wires broke off the terminal plate (solder lugs popped off the individual terminals.)

The cord was definitely original. It being pinched so tightly under there deepened my concern for safety.
The transformer is going out into the recycling bin.

CW,

Instead of the recycling bin, how much to ship to 12065?

ADCX Rob posted:

Hanks132 posted:

Hello All, I just joined this group and have a question.  Does anyone know where I might get a copy of a user manual for the Lionel Type S 80 Watt Transformer?  I have tried Lionel and they provided me with an electrical diagram but that's all they had.  I was given this unit as sort of a pass down but no paperwork.  I get the correct voltage on A+U and B+U but not sure what the C terminal is for.  Thanks

Welcome Hanks!

The "U" post goes to the center rail, you can pick "A" or "B" for the outside rail / Common depending on the voltage needs of the train(see the voltages on the dial - 10-19 or 5-14 -  for an idea of the output using these two combinations).

The "C" post is a fixed voltage tap... 19 volts using "A" as common, 14 volts if using "B" as common.

Rob, is the Type S transformer backwards?  I thought the A post went to the center rail and the U post goes to the outside rail.

Steve

On multi-train transformers such as the KW and ZW, U goes to the outside rail. On single train transformers such as the RW, LW, 1033, S and others, U goes to the center rail.

From the 1954 "How to Operate Lionel Trains" guide:

Will, if you  can solder and have the soldering gun/solder you can try this.

Could be the tender, underneath it in each corner is a screw take them out take off shell.

 The relay is next to the tenders motor held in a bracket that secures it with 1 screw at the top  thats the relay dont unscrew it though.

Now put tender on track set at 14 volts no whistle button will be used here just a steady 14 volts.

At the bottom  of relay is a brass copper type  contact that moves up and down,it goes up when in proper operation and when the whistle button on transformer is used,  with a toothpick gently lift it to contact the other contact thats directly above it and it should whistle and if not there may be a worn or broken loose etc solder joint check them all.

This procedure will tell you if tender has life as a starting point as its possible its not the transformer.

RideTheRails posted:

ADCX Rob posted:

Hanks132 posted:

Hello All, I just joined this group and have a question.  Does anyone know where I might get a copy of a user manual for the Lionel Type S 80 Watt Transformer?  I have tried Lionel and they provided me with an electrical diagram but that's all they had.  I was given this unit as sort of a pass down but no paperwork.  I get the correct voltage on A+U and B+U but not sure what the C terminal is for.  Thanks

Welcome Hanks!

The "U" post goes to the center rail, you can pick "A" or "B" for the outside rail / Common depending on the voltage needs of the train(see the voltages on the dial - 10-19 or 5-14 -  for an idea of the output using these two combinations).

The "C" post is a fixed voltage tap... 19 volts using "A" as common, 14 volts if using "B" as common.

Rob, is the Type S transformer backwards?  I thought the A post went to the center rail and the U post goes to the outside rail.

Steve

Nope, the A post goes to the outer rail, U to center. But operation wise it will not make any difference.

OldRob

oldrob posted:

RideTheRails posted:

ADCX Rob posted:

Hanks132 posted:

Hello All, I just joined this group and have a question.  Does anyone know where I might get a copy of a user manual for the Lionel Type S 80 Watt Transformer?  I have tried Lionel and they provided me with an electrical diagram but that's all they had.  I was given this unit as sort of a pass down but no paperwork.  I get the correct voltage on A+U and B+U but not sure what the C terminal is for.  Thanks

Welcome Hanks!

The "U" post goes to the center rail, you can pick "A" or "B" for the outside rail / Common depending on the voltage needs of the train(see the voltages on the dial - 10-19 or 5-14 -  for an idea of the output using these two combinations).

The "C" post is a fixed voltage tap... 19 volts using "A" as common, 14 volts if using "B" as common.

Rob, is the Type S transformer backwards?  I thought the A post went to the center rail and the U post goes to the outside rail.

Steve

Nope, the A post goes to the outer rail, U to center. But operation wise it will not make any difference.

OldRob

Oldrob, it does make a difference with the polarity of the diode used for the whistle/horn and Bell controls as reversing the leads to the track reverses the whistle/horn and Bell controls.

bmoran4 posted:

Oldrob, it does make a difference with the polarity of the diode used for the whistle/horn and Bell controls as reversing the leads to the track reverses the whistle/horn and Bell controls.

That, and the "U" post is the one that actually has both the whistle & direction controls in its circuit.

If you used "U" as common, all of your accessories on that transformer would also shut off when you depress the direction button.

I also have a Type S transformer.  It's new to me.  My new LC+ engine needs 18 volts.  I initially wired "A" to the center, "U" to the outside and cranked it up.  The engine ran fine but my lionel 1122 switches were acting strange. Only three out of four would work.  I finally checked my actual voltage.  Only 14.6 VAC.  Next I connected "A" to the center and "C" to the outside.  Now I have 18.4 volts but still one switch doesn't and the other three drop out or spark or often just switch.  I have a Lionel clip-on at opposite ends of my layout connected with 18ga.  Next I will switch polarity and see what happens.  I have a second, smaller transformer.  Should I dedicate that to switch operation?  Any ideas?  One more thing.  When I fix everything in place, should I install 1 or 2 handy "system power" cut-off buttons?

Odenville Bill posted:

I also have a Type S transformer.  It's new to me.  My new LC+ engine needs 18 volts.  I initially wired "A" to the center, "U" to the outside and cranked it up.  The engine ran fine but my lionel 1122 switches were acting strange. Only three out of four would work.  I finally checked my actual voltage.  Only 14.6 VAC.  Next I connected "A" to the center and "C" to the outside.  Now I have 18.4 volts but still one switch doesn't and the other three drop out or spark or often just switch.  I have a Lionel clip-on at opposite ends of my layout connected with 18ga.  Next I will switch polarity and see what happens.  I have a second, smaller transformer.  Should I dedicate that to switch operation?  Any ideas?  One more thing.  When I fix everything in place, should I install 1 or 2 handy "system power" cut-off buttons?

 

 

Odenville Bill,

read BMORAN4 and ADCXRob 3/24/17 posts above on connecting.

For track voltage one needs to connect the U post to the center rail and A to the outside. 

For accessories like the switches - I would try C for common to the switch controller(s). The controller wire for common connects to the post closest to the motor on that has a metal base under it. Note that you can't power these directly from the transformer without modifying them internally. It's the way the non-derail is wired. Also, note the insulating pin locations for the non-derail to work properly.

The U post is connected through the whistle controller, so, that has to be the center rail to the track to get the whistle voltage there.

I think your arcing switches may be from "polarity" crossing as you call it or a worn hot wire in the switch touching the base. Bench testing them first will tell you that. 

Be careful not to run the track voltage higher than 18 volts when using modern Lionel engines like the LC+.

I have attached the instruction sheet and wiring diagram for your use and anyone else that stumbles onto this thread.

Thanks Carl