Would I be safe in assuming that a lack of any FRA PTC waivers has caused a delay in the UP steam scheduling?
Casey Jones2 posted:Would I be safe in assuming that a lack of any FRA PTC waivers has caused a delay in the UP steam scheduling?
I doubt it. I believe it is more related to reassembling 4014 and working towards a steam test, and then future break-in operations within the Cheyenne Terminal.
Question for Hotwater, The last several years here in Omaha, Up has been doing a lot of rail upgrades and Curve smoothing along the west side of the river and at the interchange in South O. You think they're capable of getting the 14 to CWS home plate now? I know the 65 could not negotiate specific switches and radius curves previously, But most of these areas have been redone just as of recent.
aterry11 posted:Question for Hotwater, The last several years here in Omaha, Up has been doing a lot of rail upgrades and Curve smoothing along the west side of the river and at the interchange in South O. You think they're capable of getting the 14 to CWS home plate now?
OK,what is "the 14"?
I know the 65 could not negotiate specific switches and radius curves previously,
What is "the 65"?
But most of these areas have been redone just as of recent.
If the 844 could negate the track, then things should be OK for an articulated. However, backing up is much more of an issue with that pedestal tender.
UP is now the only railroad with a steam program, but NS still allows deadhead moves of 765 and 611. If 611 returns to NCTM this year, it will have to use NS to get there. 765 is probably returning to CVSR in September, and maybe Metra as well. But with the Amtrak business, there will be zero public mainline excursions this year, and the UP 844 excursions are over as well because the Denver Post can no longer afford to sponsor them. To ride behind steam for long distance, you’ll have to go to Grand Canyon, TVRM, Reading and Northern, etc.
Robert K posted:UP is now the only railroad with a steam program, but NS still allows deadhead moves of 765 and 611. If 611 returns to NCTM this year, it will have to use NS to get there. 765 is probably returning to CVSR in September, and maybe Metra as well. But with the Amtrak business, there will be zero public mainline excursions this year, and the UP 844 excursions are over as well because the Denver Post can no longer afford to sponsor them. To ride behind steam for long distance, you’ll have to go to Grand Canyon, TVRM, Reading and Northern, etc.
Until 765 and 611 have PTC installed, there will have to be a diesel guiding them. Unfortunately, I highly doubt the 765 will return to Chicago this year since Metra does have PTC. The Joliet Rocket may still run, but behind a vintage diesel instead of a steam locomotive. Personally, that's sad for me; I always will consider Chicago to be the 765's second home.
But the Big Boy and 844 will certainly run excursions in the future! The schedule isn't released yet, so you never know what might happen (other than May 10).
Hot Water posted:Casey Jones2 posted:Would I be safe in assuming that a lack of any FRA PTC waivers has caused a delay in the UP steam scheduling?
I doubt it. I believe it is more related to reassembling 4014 and working towards a steam test, and then future break-in operations within the Cheyenne Terminal.
That makes sense. I find it funny how many people think that 4014 will go directly from a steam test to hooking up to the passenger equipment to go straight to Utah for the 150th events.
The only example of something like that I can think of was the Freedom Train's "30 day miracle" restoration of Reading 2101. Ross Rowland's crew was doing touch-up on the paint as it literally rolled up to the train in Virginia to start it's journey. I'm not sure they had any time to do other than a single test run...
Robert K posted:UP is now the only railroad with a steam program, but NS still allows deadhead moves of 765 and 611. If 611 returns to NCTM this year, it will have to use NS to get there. 765 is probably returning to CVSR in September, and maybe Metra as well. But with the Amtrak business, there will be zero public mainline excursions this year, and the UP 844 excursions are over as well because the Denver Post can no longer afford to sponsor them. To ride behind steam for long distance, you’ll have to go to Grand Canyon, TVRM, Reading and Northern, etc.
You overlooked how friendly BNSF has been to qualified steam operators.
Hot Water posted:Robert K posted:UP is now the only railroad with a steam program, but NS still allows deadhead moves of 765 and 611. If 611 returns to NCTM this year, it will have to use NS to get there. 765 is probably returning to CVSR in September, and maybe Metra as well. But with the Amtrak business, there will be zero public mainline excursions this year, and the UP 844 excursions are over as well because the Denver Post can no longer afford to sponsor them. To ride behind steam for long distance, you’ll have to go to Grand Canyon, TVRM, Reading and Northern, etc.
You overlooked how friendly BNSF has been to qualified steam operators.
I've never heard of that. Which operators?
TrainMan1225 posted:Hot Water posted:Robert K posted:UP is now the only railroad with a steam program, but NS still allows deadhead moves of 765 and 611. If 611 returns to NCTM this year, it will have to use NS to get there. 765 is probably returning to CVSR in September, and maybe Metra as well. But with the Amtrak business, there will be zero public mainline excursions this year, and the UP 844 excursions are over as well because the Denver Post can no longer afford to sponsor them. To ride behind steam for long distance, you’ll have to go to Grand Canyon, TVRM, Reading and Northern, etc.
You overlooked how friendly BNSF has been to qualified steam operators.
I've never heard of that. Which operators?
How about AT&SF #3751, SP&S 700, Milwaukee Road #261, and of course SP 4449.
Hot Water posted:TrainMan1225 posted:You overlooked how friendly BNSF has been to qualified steam operators.
I've never heard of that. Which operators?
How about AT&SF #3751, SP&S 700, Milwaukee Road #261, and of course SP 4449.
Not quite so friendly to Frisco 1522, alas.
palallin posted:Hot Water posted:TrainMan1225 posted:You overlooked how friendly BNSF has been to qualified steam operators.
I've never heard of that. Which operators?
How about AT&SF #3751, SP&S 700, Milwaukee Road #261, and of course SP 4449.
Not quite so friendly to Frisco 1522, alas.
In fact the UP was VERY friendly to Frisco 1522, on more than one occasion. However, the group in charge of 1522 was getting "long in the tooth", and the engine was coming do for some major maintenance and inspections, so they all simply decided to call it quits, and folded their tent. Thus, the 1522 was returned to the museum in St Louis.
I thought the PTC mandate was due at the end od the year.
Seems the UP doesn't need a PTC waiver as this is dated Feb. 22, 2019
Casey Jones2 posted:Seems the UP doesn't need a PTC waiver as this is dated Feb. 22, 2019
After reading the letter from the FRA, it seems that the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing within UP.
I don't know. UP requested a waiver, and the FRA denied the request, because at this time they don't even need a waiver.
smd4 posted:I don't know. UP requested a waiver, and the FRA denied the request, because at this time they don't even need a waiver.
My point exactly. Wonder why someone, either within the steam dept., or not, thought that the steam locomotives needed a waver?
11K miles. Lot more than from home base to Salt Lake City.
Kelly Anderson posted:Yes, but as the UP bashers will be quick to point out, 11K miles isn't even four times across the USA. No wonder they say that the UP steam program is dead.
Just for kicks, how about comparing that to previous years, say prior to 2011, when there were at least one operational steam locomotive EVERY YEAR, and sometimes two operational steam locomotives, plus an A-B-A set of executive E units and/or a DDA40X.
Crunch time is coming. Little over two months out.
With 10 weeks until the Golden Spike event I'm sure the UP Steam shop crew is under tremendous pressure to complete work on 4014 and have several test runs on a main (Denver line?) before making the run to Ogden. Of the remaining tasks which of them present the biggest challenge/risk? Is installation and tuning the oil burners a big deal? Failure of 4014 to show up under steam would be an embarrassment felt right to the board room. From a PR perspective there is no next year. I'm rooting for the UP crew as future corporate support of heritage steam may largely rest with the Golden Spike event receiving favorable nationwide publicity.
Keystoned Ed posted:With 10 weeks until the Golden Spike event I'm sure the UP Steam shop crew is under tremendous pressure to complete work on 4014 and have several test runs on a main (Denver line?) before making the run to Ogden. Of the remaining tasks which of them present the biggest challenge/risk? Is installation and tuning the oil burners a big deal?
Very definitely YES!
Failure of 4014 to show up under steam would be an embarrassment felt right to the board room. From a PR perspective there is no next year. I'm rooting for the UP crew as future corporate support of heritage steam may largely rest with the Golden Spike event receiving favorable nationwide publicity.
Would have made for one heck of a reality TV show . Even has a hard deadline. Will they make it? Tune in next week,or in a couple months
Kelly Anderson posted:Yes, but as the UP bashers will be quick to point out, 11K miles isn't even four times across the USA. No wonder they say that the UP steam program is dead.
Dead as a doornail Kelly!
And by the sounds of it (for the 5,000,000th time) I should be going back to pre-2011! 
Also, I hear a record playing on repeat, but can't tell where its coming from...
Planning on 11k miles and actually doing it are two different things. Let’s see how it plays out the rest of the year.
What is the backup plan?
I think a meet of UP 844 and SP 4449 would have made more sense. OK, the 4449 is not a UP engine. But an exveption in this case......
Dominic Mazoch posted:What is the backup plan? I think a meet of UP 844 and SP 4449 would have made more sense. OK, the 4449 is not a UP engine. But an exveption in this case......
That subject was brought up, and extensively discussed, way back last year. The bottom line; no way that SP 4449 was going to be allowed to share ANY of the publicity and limelight with the Union Pacific's 150th event in Utah!
Hum...Were the history books rewritten? I thought the had part of building the first transcon was done by the CENTRAL PACIFIC!
Yes, SP was bought by UP in 1996. And UP will do what UP wants. But a possible history lesson lost.
But maybe sending ANY non-period steamer by themselves is a mistake. 844 and 4014 were built 70 years after the golden spike. Now, JUPITER/UP 119, 844/4014, the E units,and a modern AC traction motor diesel electric could show motive power ovet 150 years....
But it is the UP show...
Here's the news you've been waiting for! • More details to come......
The commemorative tour schedule for the Big Boy No. 4014 and Living Legend No. 844 are now online at https://www.up.com/heritage/
The iconic steam locomotives will join together in a public display for the first time May 9 in Ogden, Utah, during Union Pacific's celebratory event marking the transcontinental railroad's 150th anniversary. The festivities include recreating the iconic photo taken May 10, 1869, when the last spike was tapped into place at Promontory Summit, creating America's first transcontinental railroad. Union Pacific no longer has tracks near Promontory Summit. They were removed to support the scrap metal projects during World War II.
No. 844 will leave Cheyenne, Wyoming, April 27. It will make several brief whistle-stops in communities along its route, arriving in Ogden on April 28. The Living Legend will be on display at Ogden Union Station through May 11.
No. 4014 will leave Cheyenne May 4 following a 9:30 a.m. MT christening ceremony at the historic Cheyenne Depot and arrive in Ogden for the May 9 celebratory event at Ogden Union Station. The Big Boy also will make several whistle-stops in communities along its route.
A comprehensive schedule for the April – May tour, including additional locations, display times and No. 844 and No. 4014 GPS location tracking information is available at http://upsteam.com. Due to the dynamic nature of these operations, running times and scheduled stops are subject to change.
The 150th anniversary celebration will continue throughout the year with No. 4014 visiting many states across the Union Pacific system. A tentative schedule with tour locations and dates will be published in the near future.
Gary: Rail-fan
Attachments
Images (1)
I heard seriously heard you can bet in Vegas on if 4014 actually get to Ogden for the 150th, though nobody seems to know where.
Man, that's a bet I'd love to lose, betting against 4014.
p51 posted:I heard seriously heard you can bet in Vegas on if 4014 actually get to Ogden for the 150th, though nobody seems to know where.
Man, that's a bet I'd love to lose, betting against 4014.
Well, one thing for sure. There will be no doubleheader!
One thing we do know is no 844 public excursion this year from Denver. They decided to end it because the newspaper could no longer afford to sponsor it. Oh well, if you want to ride a long steam excursion this year in the US there’s always the Grand Canyon, Cumbres & Toltec, Durango, TVRM, RBMN, etc. The UP thing is mostly for chasers and for people to watch them arrive at cities. UP doesn’t want to bother with liability insurance for excursions.
Robert K posted:One thing we do know is no 844 public excursion this year from Denver.
What about on other lines of the UP?
They decided to end it because the newspaper could no longer afford to sponsor it. Oh well, if you want to ride a long steam excursion this year in the US there’s always the Grand Canyon, Cumbres & Toltec, Durango, TVRM, RBMN, etc.
None of those are on a "main line", however.
This year there is probably zero mainline excursions because of the Amtrak ban as well as an NS ban because NS ended support for excursions. I guess the bean counters had their way, excursions are too much of a risk for class 1’s and Amtrak who are trying to cut costs. The RBMN excursions especially the ones on the Lehigh Division are sort of on a main line, the ex-Lehigh Valley and CNJ routes combined.
Is there any information about a test run before the big event? I thought they were going to doublehead on the return trip to Cheyenne.
The train is scheduled to arrive double headed back in Cheyenne on May 19th. Just in time to see the High Plains 3 Railers at the Sherman Hill Model Railroad Show !
John Mills posted:Is there any information about a test run before the big event?
No, not yet.
I thought they were going to doublehead on the return trip to Cheyenne.
Supposedly, yes.
My plan is to wait patiently in Laramie.
A Quick Guide & Timeline
The Great Race to Ogden – No. 844
No. 844 will leave Cheyenne, Wyoming, April 27 and will make several brief stops in communities before arriving in Ogden, Utah, April 28.
"Experience the Union Pacific" displays include public access to the Experience Car and souvenir shop. The Experience the Union Pacific Car connects visitors to the innovative and expanding story of Union Pacific and modern railroad operations that have united the nation since 1869.
"No Public Access" stops are secured locations where the public is not allowed for safety reasons.
Saturday, April 27 | ||
Depart | 8:00 a.m. MT | Cheyenne, Wyo. UP Steam Shop |
Arrival Depart | 9:00 a.m. MT 9:30 a.m. MT | Laramie, Wyo. Laramie Historic Railroad Depot E. Kearney and S. 1st St. |
Arrival Depart | 11:30 a.m. MT Noon MT | Medicine Bow, Wyo. Hwy. 30 at Medicine Bow-McFadden Rd. |
Arrival Depart | 1:10 p.m. MT 1:40 p.m. MT | Rawlins, Wyo. Rawlins Depot 100 W Front St. |
Arrival Depart | 2:35 p.m. MT 3:05 p.m. MT | Wamsutter, Wyo. Near Water Tower Broadway Street |
Arrival | 4:45 p.m. MT | Rock Springs, Wyo. 501 N. Front St |
Sunday, April 28 | ||
Depart | 8:00 a.m. MT | Rock Springs, Wyo. 501 N. Front St |
Arrival Depart | 8:45 a.m. MT 9:15 a.m. MT | Green River, Wyo. Green River Depot 200 E. Railroad Ave |
Arrival Depart | 10:00 a.m. MT 10:30 a.m. MT | Granger, Wyo. Main Street crossing |
Arrival Depart | 12:30 p.m. MT 1:00 p.m. MT | Evanston, Wyo. Evanston Depot 10th St |
Arrival Depart | 2:30 p.m. MT 3:00 p.m. MT | Morgan, Utah Morgan Depot 98 Commercial Street |
Arrival | 4:30 p.m. MT | Ogden, Utah Ogden Union Station 2501 Wall Ave. |
Monday, April 29 – Saturday, May 4 | ||
On Display: | 10:00 a.m. – 4:00 p.m. MT | Ogden, Utah Ogden Union Station 2501 Wall Ave. |
Sunday, May 5 | ||
No Public Display | Ogden, Utah | |
Monday, May 6 – Wednesday, May 8 | ||
On Display: | 10:00 a.m. – 4:00 p.m. MT | Ogden, Utah Ogden Union Station 2501 Wall Ave. |
Thursday, May 9 | ||
Celebration | 10:30 a.m. MT | Ogden, Utah Ogden Union Station 2501 Wall Ave. |
On Display: | Noon – 3:00 p.m. MT | Ogden, Utah Ogden Union Station 2501 Wall Ave. |
The Great Race to Ogden – No. 4014
Big Boy No. 4014 will leave Cheyenne May 4 following a 9:30 a.m. MT christening ceremony at the historic Cheyenne Depot and arrive in Ogden for the May 9 celebratory event culminating in the Big Boy joining with The Living Legend No. 844. The celebratory event will be streamed live May 9 at 10:30 a.m. MT via the Union Pacific Facebook page.
The Big Boy will make several brief stops in communities on its way to Ogden.
Saturday, May 4 | ||
Christening Depart | 9:30 a.m. MT 10:00 a.m. MT | Cheyenne, Wyo. Cheyenne Depot Museum 121 W. 15th Street |
Arrival Depart | 11:15 a.m. MT 11:30 a.m. MT | Harriman, Wyo. County Road 102 Crossing |
Arrival Depart | 12:30 p.m. MT 1:15 p.m. MT | Laramie, Wyo. Laramie Historic Railroad Depot E. Kearney and S. 1st St. |
Arrival Depart | 2:30 p.m. MT 3:15 p.m. MT | Medicine Bow, Wyo. Hwy. 30 at Medicine Bow-McFadden Rd. |
Arrival | 4:45 p.m. MT | Rawlins, Wyo. East Railroad St & Higley Blvd. |
Sunday, May 5 | ||
Depart | 8:00 a.m. MT | Rawlins, Wyo. East Railroad St & Higley Blvd. |
Arrival Depart | 9:15 a.m. MT 10:00 a.m. MT | Wamsutter, Wyo. Near Water Tower Broadway Street |
Arrival | 11:15 a.m. MT | Rock Springs, Wyo. 501 N. Front St |
Monday, May 6 | ||
Depart | 4:00 a.m. MT | Rock Springs, Wyo. 501 N. Front St |
Arrival Depart | 4:55 a.m. MT 5:10 a.m. MT | Green River, Wyo. Depot 200 E. Railroad Ave |
Arrival Depart | 6:15 a.m. MT 7:00 a.m. MT | Granger, Wyo. Main Street crossing |
Arrival | 8:45 a.m. MT | Evanston, Wyo. 1500 Main St. |
Tuesday, May 7 | ||
No Public Display |
| Evanston, Wyo. 1500 Main St. |
Wednesday, May 8 | ||
Depart | 8:00 a.m. MT | Evanston, Wyo. 1500 Main St. |
Arrival Depart | 9:30 a.m. MT 9:45 a.m. MT | Echo, Utah Echo Road Crossing |
Arrival Depart | 10:00 a.m. MT 10:15 a.m. MT | Morgan, Utah Morgan Depot 98 Commercial Street |
Arrival | 10:50 a.m. MT | Ogden, Utah No Public Access |
Thursday, May 9 | ||
Celebratory Event | 10:30 a.m. MT | Ogden, Utah Ogden Union Station 2501 Wall Ave. |
The Great Race from Ogden – No. 844 and No. 4014
Following the 150th anniversary celebrations, No. 4014 and No. 844 will double-head on their return trip to the Union Pacific Steam Shop in Cheyenne, stopping in communities along the way including Rock Springs and Laramie, Wyoming.
Friday, May 10 – Saturday, May 11 | ||
On Display: | 10:00 a.m. – 3:00 p.m. MT | Ogden, Utah Ogden Union Station 2501 Wall Ave. |
Sunday, May 12 | ||
Depart | 8:00 a.m. MT | Ogden, Utah Ogden Union Station 2501 Wall Ave. |
Arrival Depart | 9:15 a.m. MT 9:25 a.m. MT | Morgan, Utah 98 Commercial Street |
Arrival Depart | 9:55 a.m. MT 10:05 a.m. MT | Echo, Utah Echo Road Crossing |
Arrival | 11:05 a.m. MT | Evanston, Wyo. Evanston Depot 10th St. |
Monday, May 13 | ||
Depart | 8:00 a.m. MT | Evanston, Wyo. |
Arrival Depart | 10:00 a.m. MT 10:45 a.m. MT | Granger, Wyo. Main Street crossing |
Arrival Depart | 11:50 a.m. MT 12:05 p.m. MT | Green River, Wyo. 200 E. Railroad Ave |
Arrival | 12:45 p.m. MT | Rock Springs, Wyo. 501 N. Front St |
Tuesday, May 14 – Wednesday, May 15 | ||
On Display: | 9:00 a.m. – 3:00 p.m. MT | Rock Springs, Wyo. 501 N. Front St |
Thursday, May 16 | ||
Depart | 8:00 a.m. MT | Rock Springs, Wyo. 501 N. Front St |
Arrival Depart | 9:00 a.m. MT 9:15 a.m. MT | Point of Rocks, Wyo. Black Buttes Road |
Arrival Depart | 10:30 a.m. MT 11:30 a.m. MT | Wamsutter, Wyo. Near Water Tower Broadway Street |
Arrival | 12:45 p.m. MT | Rawlins, Wyo. East Railroad St & Higley Blvd. |
Friday, May 17 | ||
Depart | 8:00 a.m. MT | Rawlins, Wyo. East Railroad St & Higley Blvd. |
Arrival Depart | 9:00 a.m. MT 9:15 a.m. MT | Hanna, Wyo. Main St. & Front St. |
Arrival Depart | 9:45 a.m. MT 10:45 a.m. MT | Medicine Bow, Wyo. Hwy. 30 at Medicine Bow-McFadden Rd. |
Arrival | 12:45 p.m. MT | Laramie, Wyo. Laramie Historic Railroad Depot E. Kearney and S. 1st St. No Public Access |
Saturday, May 18 | ||
No Public Access |
| Laramie, Wyo. Laramie Historic Railroad Depot E. Kearney and S. 1st St. |
Sunday, May 19 | ||
Depart | 8:00 a.m. MT | Laramie, Wyo. Laramie Historic Railroad Depot E. Kearney and S. 1st St. |
Arrival Depart | 9:15 a.m. MT 9:25 a.m. MT | Sherman Hill, Wyo. |
Arrival | 11:05 a.m. MT | Cheyenne, Wyo. UP Steam Shop |
Source: Union Pacific Steam Club • Always check the main schedule for any changes…….. (Click here)
Gary Rail-Fan
Attachments
I don’t know if the 4014 will ever get East of the Mississippi, but I would sure like to see it without having to go that far west.
Ben
