What years(s) did Special ED work for UP Steam the first time??
p51 posted:jethat posted:I think its very likely that if 4014 is there under steam it will likely see very little work. There will be 1 or 2 diesels in the consist supplying power.
I've heard several people say the same thing for 4449, that its only hot enough to qualify as actually under steam and that the diesel helper really does all the real work.
Beats me if that is fair or not to say that, though. I'm a fan of Doyle and his crew and I've chased and ridden behind 4449 several times and it never seemed accurate to me.
I don’t think that’s correct because there are a lot of photos of her running solo from the 90s and early 2000s.
NS6770Fan posted:p51 posted:jethat posted:I think its very likely that if 4014 is there under steam it will likely see very little work. There will be 1 or 2 diesels in the consist supplying power.
I've heard several people say the same thing for 4449, that its only hot enough to qualify as actually under steam and that the diesel helper really does all the real work.
Beats me if that is fair or not to say that, though. I'm a fan of Doyle and his crew and I've chased and ridden behind 4449 several times and it never seemed accurate to me.
I don’t think that’s correct because there are a lot of photos of her running solo from the 90s and early 2000s.
Of course it is not correct about 4449! When steam excursions had to be operated under Amtrak, in order to provide the required minimum 750 million dollars of liability insurance coverage to the BN/BNSF host railroad, Amtrak required one of their diesel units. The Amtrak diesel was primarily for HEP to all the passenger cars, and was rarely used as tractive power, but was very useful in dynamic brake for long down grades.
A short story from Train Room Gary • A Historic Book about the Union Pacific Big Boys
Yesterday was a beautiful spring day in Michigan, so I went for a walk to my local public library. This fifth-teen minute walk was very enjoyable and my neighbors were out doing yard work and the children were playing catch with a football.
This library was founded in 1936, the same year my house was built. In 1936 this neighborhood was founded by the Chrysler Corporation for their employees. They ran a bus from this library to the automotive plant in Detroit. This bus ran until the late 60’s.
All the homes are on a one acre lot. The lots have 100 feet on the road and the depth is about 498 feet. We also have Michigan’s oldest credit union also founded in 1936 and largest community beach. Three quarters of a mile of sandy beach, docks and a special fishing area on a large inland lake. During WWII all the home owners had a victory garden.
I was able to locate a historic book about the “Big Boy” with help from the circulation manager. The book is “Big Boy” by William W. Kratville. Copyright 1963 by; Barnhart Press Omaha, Nebraska.
The book has a hard cover and embossed with the gold foil printing process.
The book has an illustration from the American Locomotive Company, Schenectady, New York. Shown is a Union Pacific 4-8-8-4 Type. Built in 1941 , order #S-1844.
I liked the book so I thought about purchasing a copy, well I had to cancel those plans after I found a copy on Amazon for $707.00
Topics covered in this book: Design & Operations, The Smokebox, The Boiler, The Firebox, Frames and Running Gear, Cab & Appliances, The Tender. Portfolio of the Big Boys and Big Boys in Action.
Gary: Union Pacific • Rail-fan & Model Railroader
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Look for the paperback version...I paid $30 for mine.
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Google “Kratville Publications “. Cate Kratville-Wrinn is going to publish a new edition of her father’s Big Boy book after the 4014 gets running. FYI
Casey Jones2 posted:Look for the paperback version...I paid $30 for mine.
Mine is Hardcover copyright 2004 that looks identical to yours
Hot Water's suspicions regarding the future of 3985 with UP's steam program are looking correct if the following information from another site turns out to be true:
Another interesting bit of information to consider is that since they are trying to convert the 4014 to burn oil - they have taken the tender from 4-6-6-4 Challenger No. 3985 and will pair it with the 4014. This tender will then be cosmetically restored and repainted and renumbered to 3985 and eventually paired with it when it goes back on static display in a location yet to be determined. I can't reveal information, but sources I know have told me that since the Big Boy is being restored - the Challenger will be put back together and placed back on static display again.
Have they done nothing at all on 4014’s tender then?
645 posted:Hot Water's suspicions regarding the future of 3985 with UP's steam program are looking correct if the following information from another site turns out to be true:
Another interesting bit of information to consider is that since they are trying to convert the 4014 to burn oil - they have taken the tender from 4-6-6-4 Challenger No. 3985 and will pair it with the 4014. This tender will then be cosmetically restored and repainted and renumbered to 3985 and eventually paired with it when it goes back on static display in a location yet to be determined. I can't reveal information, but sources I know have told me that since the Big Boy is being restored - the Challenger will be put back together and placed back on static display again.
Ed Dickens has stated many times that once the Big Boy is completed, their attention will turn to 3985 so I'd love to know where your "sources" got that from. I seriously don't understand why so many of you want to read between the lines about the Challenger when it comes to her tender being used for 4014. With the May deadline fast approaching, it's really the only viable option they have right now to get the Big Boy operational and ready for Ogden.
PennsyPride94 posted:645 posted:Hot Water's suspicions regarding the future of 3985 with UP's steam program are looking correct if the following information from another site turns out to be true:
Another interesting bit of information to consider is that since they are trying to convert the 4014 to burn oil - they have taken the tender from 4-6-6-4 Challenger No. 3985 and will pair it with the 4014. This tender will then be cosmetically restored and repainted and renumbered to 3985 and eventually paired with it when it goes back on static display in a location yet to be determined. I can't reveal information, but sources I know have told me that since the Big Boy is being restored - the Challenger will be put back together and placed back on static display again.
Ed Dickens has stated many times that once the Big Boy is completed, their attention will turn to 3985
That's what he now says publicly. However, from the time he "took over" completely, in January 2011, he has stated many, MANY times that 3985 will NEVER operate again, so long as he is in charge.
so I'd love to know where your "sources" got that from. I seriously don't understand why so many of you want to read between the lines about the Challenger when it comes to her tender being used for 4014.
Right as to the use of 3985's tender. However, virtually all the appliances have been removed from 3985, plus the complete oil firing equipment, all the cab signal/ATC equipment, and all the superheater units were removed & scraped.
With the May deadline fast approaching, it's really the only viable option they have right now to get the Big Boy operational and ready for Ogden.
True.
Casey Jones2 posted:Look for the paperback version...I paid $30 for mine.
Yup …. they pop up once in a while for that money. I got one. On eBay, not the used book sellers at Amazon, they often want $700, or more (plus 3.95 shipping, lol)
It's too bad about 3985. It would have been nice to see 3985/4014 double heading a train.
As an aside it seems like if UP wanted two steam locomotives for the celebration it would have made more sense to just get 3985 in shape and skip restoring 4014, since 3985 was already sorted out. Option 2 would have been to have 4449 and 844 meet, since the original transcontinental railroad was the Union Pacific and Central Pacific meeting, and the Southern Pacific was a successor company to the Central Pacific.
Lou1985 posted:It's too bad about 3985. It would have been nice to see 3985/4014 double heading a train.
As an aside it seems like if UP wanted two steam locomotives for the celebration it would have made more sense to just get 3985 in shape and skip restoring 4014, since 3985 was already sorted out. Option 2 would have been to have 4449 and 844 meet,
That was proposed, way back last year. Two or three pretty influential groups sent a combined proposal to UP headquarters in Omaha, about operating SP 4449 from Portland, OR to Ogden UT, to meet UP 844/4014. The "plan" was subsequently shot down.
since the original transcontinental railroad was the Union Pacific and Central Pacific meeting, and the Southern Pacific was a successor company to the Central Pacific.
Hot Water posted:Lou1985 posted:It's too bad about 3985. It would have been nice to see 3985/4014 double heading a train.
As an aside it seems like if UP wanted two steam locomotives for the celebration it would have made more sense to just get 3985 in shape and skip restoring 4014, since 3985 was already sorted out. Option 2 would have been to have 4449 and 844 meet,
That was proposed, way back last year. Two or three pretty influential groups sent a combined proposal to UP headquarters in Omaha, about operating SP 4449 from Portland, OR to Ogden UT, to meet UP 844/4014. The "plan" was subsequently shot down.
since the original transcontinental railroad was the Union Pacific and Central Pacific meeting, and the Southern Pacific was a successor company to the Central Pacific.
Too bad UP wants all the publicity, as that 4449/844 meeting would have been pretty neat, especially the run up to it.
Lou1985 posted:.......... since the original transcontinental railroad was the Union Pacific and Central Pacific meeting, and the Southern Pacific was a successor company to the Central Pacific.
and isn’t this the point that the SP wasn’t the CP at the time while the UP was and still is?
Hot Water posted:That's what he now says publicly. However, from the time he "took over" completely, in January 2011, he has stated many, MANY times that 3985 will NEVER operate again, so long as he is in charge.
I'd like to know where you found this information. I can't believe that Ed would say that. I saw on Trainorders that Ed said the 3985 was sidelined because it had some issues and he wasn't comfortable with signing off to run it, being UP's only steam engineer. I've heard from many sources they have had new parts made for the engine, along with the 844 and 4014, so if they were to prop it up cold in a museum somewhere, why would they spend all that money to do that?
Kelly Anderson posted:Hot Water posted:Right as to the use of 3985's tender. However, virtually all the appliances have been removed from 3985, plus the complete oil firing equipment, all the cab signal/ATC equipment, and all the superheater units were removed & scraped.
I understand that Ed has purchased all new forged and machined crosshead guides for #3985. Quite an investment for an engine that's never going to run again.
I’m that case smoke and mirrors comes to mind.......
TrainMan1225 posted:Hot Water posted:That's what he now says publicly. However, from the time he "took over" completely, in January 2011, he has stated many, MANY times that 3985 will NEVER operate again, so long as he is in charge.I'd like to know where you found this information. I can't believe that Ed would say that.
Believe it, as more then a few members of the "previous" Steam Crew witnessed/heard him state that more then just a few times.
I saw on Trainorders that Ed said the 3985 was sidelined because it had some issues and he wasn't comfortable with signing off to run it, being UP's only steam engineer.
Just another public statement from him.
I've heard from many sources they have had new parts made for the engine, along with the 844 and 4014, so if they were to prop it up cold in a museum somewhere, why would they spend all that money to do that?
That would be ANOTHER sixty four thousand dollar question! Then you might ask, why did he scrap all the superheater units out of 3985, especially after he had two of the men fully test and hydro pressure test & repair each and every unit?
Kelly Anderson posted:Hot Water posted:Then you might ask, why did he scrap all the superheater units out of 3985, especially after he had two of the men fully test and hydro pressure test & repair each and every unit?
Steve Lee told me in person that he planned to convert #3985 to Type-A superheaters at its next 1472 SDI, scrapping the Type-E's in the process.
Perhaps Ed is following Steve's lead.
OK, i’ll ask, what is the difference and why?
Kelly Anderson posted:Hot Water posted:Then you might ask, why did he scrap all the superheater units out of 3985, especially after he had two of the men fully test and hydro pressure test & repair each and every unit?
Steve Lee told me in person that he planned to convert #3985 to Type-A superheaters at its next 1472 SDI, scrapping the Type-E's in the process.
Perhaps Ed is following Steve's lead.
Well, believing THAT would be a bit of a stretch, since the current manager never pursued the removal of the superheater header/front-end throttle assembly from the 4000 displayed in the downtown park there in Cheyenne (where Steve had planned to surgically remove it). Also, why would the current manager have two of his crewmen remove, hydro test, and carefully repair each and every unit removed from 3985? Later the shop flatcar was pushed outside in order to expose all those units to the elements, ultimately leading them to be scraped. The 3985 was still not due for her 1472/15 year re-certification at that time, in 2011/2012.
It is scrapped not scraped btw
Ukaflyer posted:It is scrapped not scraped btw
Thanks, Mr. Spellcheck. Obviously my spellcheck didn't catch that.
Oh well, I am always here to help you
When it comes to matters concerning the UP steam manager, I tend to believe Hot water's story seeing as how he has actually worked with the man. I understand a lot of you want to give him the benefit of the doubt, but Hot water probably knows what he's talking about
OK, if the 4005 could not make it over Sherman Hill without a refill of oil in the tender, then what about going to Ogden? UP has some older tenders, but are they not for water. Or use the diesels for the real work, and let the BB "coast"?
Dominic Mazoch posted:OK, if the 4005 could not make it over Sherman Hill without a refill of oil in the tender, then what about going to Ogden?
For heaven's sake, that was back in the late 1940s/early 1950s with full tonnage freight trains! The trip from Cheyenne to Ogden with 4014 will NOT have a "full tonnage freight train" and will make many over-night stops, where the tenders will be topped off with fuel and water. No different than when 3985 made westbound trips with excursion trains.
UP has some older tenders, but are they not for water.
yes.
Or use the diesels for the real work, and let the BB "coast"?
One never knows, but under the previous Steam Team management, the diesel/diesels were rarely used for power, but primarily for dynamic brake assistance on the long down grades, thus saving the disc brake pads on all those fancy UP office cars.
Ukaflyer posted:Lou1985 posted:.......... since the original transcontinental railroad was the Union Pacific and Central Pacific meeting, and the Southern Pacific was a successor company to the Central Pacific.
and isn’t this the point that the SP wasn’t the CP at the time while the UP was and still is?
Technically UP owns them both now.
So much conflicting information! Kelly's report on new crosshead guides for 3985 is the first I have heard of this. This is the only glimmer of hope for 3985 running again. But if that were true, why does the new steam logo omit 3985, like it's gone for good?
Maybe some savvy investor can start a go-fund-me page for 3985!
That was almost 40 years ago now. 1980.
Chuck Sartor posted:That was almost 40 years ago now. 1980.
I think he's talking about the work performed in 2007-2008
Oh, forgot about that.
Are Wyoming cities prepared for the Big Boy 4-8-8-4 steam locomotive visit?
Trains finds that three communities are aware of Union Pacific's plans to place a giant steam locomotive in their midst, but have few plans for tourists
By Steve Glischinski | March 22, 2019
To read the article: Click here
Source: Trains Magazine • News Wire • March 22, 2019 • Jim Wrinn: Editor
Gary: Rail-fan & Model Railroader
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OK, getting the BB out running is a big thing to us who like trains in one way or another.
But I have another concern. UP may have many non fans look at the special trains. But with the 15 second news cycle we seem to be living with now, will there be ANY long term staying power of the UP message?
Plus, if any of those places have any large negative issues due to people watching these trains, the negative effect might just overtake the UP message. Plus, it will make any of us who have any sort of hobby connected with trains look really bad.
I hate to sound like a Hans Solo clone, but, "I have a bad feeling about this," from the start.
Good grief. There are people who can make a bad thing out of literally anything. You can't let them stop you from doing everything.
I liked the book so I thought about purchasing a copy, well I had to cancel those plans after I found a copy on Amazon for $707.00
Wow! At $7.36 per page I think that I might be tempted to sell my HB copy!
Dominic Mazoch posted:OK, getting the BB out running is a big thing to us who like trains in one way or another.
But I have another concern. UP may have many non fans look at the special trains. But with the 15 second news cycle we seem to be living with now, will there be ANY long term staying power of the UP message?
Plus, if any of those places have any large negative issues due to people watching these trains, the negative effect might just overtake the UP message. Plus, it will make any of us who have any sort of hobby connected with trains look really bad.
I hate to sound like a Hans Solo clone, but, "I have a bad feeling about this," from the start.
Staying power of the message? Possibly tens of thousands of children seeing with their own eyes what their grandparents, or great grandparents used to see with their own eyes! The potential memories from that experience that will last with them for a life time. Think about how many members on this forum can talk of being young and seeing steam with their fathers all across the country back in the day. The experience IS the message. Hopefully some of them will let that memory grow into a passion, a passion that suports railfaning, model railroad, and an appreciation for the history of this country and what the railroads did to advance the prosperity of the nation. Some of whom who might not have had that appreciation develop without seeing the 4014 (or 844, 3985 or insert numbers here) with their own eyes.
BS politics of the UP drama aside, good on the Union Pacific. It can’t be lost in them that there might not be any upside in the end for the stockholders, yet here they are with the 4014.
Good on the UP
Ben
I agree with what Ben said. I couldn't have said it better.
NotInWI posted:Possibly tens of thousands of children seeing with their own eyes what their grandparents, or great grandparents used to see with their own eyes! The potential memories from that experience that will last with them for a life time. Think about how many members on this forum can talk of being young and seeing steam with their fathers all across the country back in the day. The experience IS the message. Hopefully some of them will let that memory grow into a passion, a passion that suports railfaning, model railroad, and an appreciation for the history of this country and what the railroads did to advance the prosperity of the nation. Some of whom who might not have had that appreciation develop without seeing the 4014 (or 844, 3985 or insert numbers here) with their own eyes.
BS politics of the UP drama aside, good on the Union Pacific. It can’t be lost in them that there might not be any upside in the end for the stockholders, yet here they are with the 4014.
Good on the UP
Ben
Very well put, Ben. In an age where we’re starting to see large mainline steam locomotives on tourist railroads, regionals, and short lines (765 on the CVSR, 261 on the Twin Cities & Western, 1225 on the GLC, 611 on the Strasburg, 2926 and 3751 maybe on the Grand Canyon), UP is still running their steam program, still allowing steam to rocket down the mainline. Plus, now they have a BIG BOY, soon the largest and most powerful steam locomotive to operate since the steam era. Good on the UP indeed.
EBT Jim posted:Casey Jones2 posted:Look for the paperback version...I paid $30 for mine.
Yup …. they pop up once in a while for that money. I got one. On eBay, not the used book sellers at Amazon, they often want $700, or more (plus 3.95 shipping, lol)
There is currently a paperback one on Abebooks for less than $30.
