UP Big Boy Restoration

found a youtube video of 3985 in 2012..she doesnt look that bad..just a 6 pannels off of her boiler by the cab..proubley for boiler inspection...kind of sad seeing the 838 being used as a parts dooner for the 844.

instead of all these rumors about 3985 future, why doesn't someone like Trains Magazine or someone ask UP what's up?

I thought it was...UP doesn't have the $$ and manpower to do two major overhauls.

First, Trains Magazine editors are NOT about to "rock the boat" and bite the hands that feed them by asking those kinds of "tuff questions". Besides, the UP PR people are NOT about to answer/respond to questions about what has REALLY been going on with poor 3985.

Second, it ha nothing to due with UP dollars and the rebuild of #4014, as that is REPORTEDLY being funded by an "outside source". Thus, the budget has nothing to do with lake of work being done on 3985. 

I very seriously doubt that UP would scrap the 3985 as I keep on reading around the internet. The restoration of 4014 is a development that is making me look forward to its future operation. Can't you guys recognize GOOD NEWS whem it happens?!?!?

Thank you, UP and thank you "Anonymous Sugar Daddy"

If that is true, that sourse must have very deep pockets.  If UP bought the engine, that source can't use that as a deduction on their 1040 forms.

UP did not pay $$ for the 4014...but a later planned excursion with the 4014 will benefit the chapter.

Chris

So, does UP really own the engine?  This sounds more and more something A. Christie would have written, except there is no body!

There was a value for value exchange. Leave it at that.

What I have read, is that the chapter wanted SOMETHING in exchange for the 4014, but AFAIK, WHAT it is that was agreed upon has NOT been released yet.

  It was IMPLIED, that they wanted some sort of equippment to replace the 4014. Cash may have been included as part of the compensation, but the way it has been reported so far the chapter does want the "HOLE" in the display collection replaced with a physical object.

 Again, the details have not been released yet to my knowledge, but it seems from what I have read, that UP did get "Ownership" of the 4014 out of the deal.

 My GUESS as to the 3985's situation, is that "Reliable Sources" report that Ed Dickens "HATES that Locomotive" and doesn't care if she ever leaves the roundhouse again. Maybe she be pulled DIT behind some Heritage units to "fill a hole" in Pomona, I don't know. As to the 3985 being scrapped, I doubt that Dickens is THAT Hateful of the 3985, she is just to Irreplaceable a part of UP's history to melt down, mere Dollars could not replace her at any price. Possibly sitting forgotten in the last stall of the roundhouse, until another change of leadership in Steam Team occurs, Hopefully with someone that might see the value in the 3985 being returned to service. A 4014/3985 double-Header would be a sight to see, add the 844 to the lead, and I need to go take a COLD SHOWER just thinking about it.

Doug

so just why is this man supposed tio hate the 3985? did he want a MTH Premiers Challenger for Christmas and get an HO diesel instead?

It seems it is because the 3985 is so closely tied to Steve Lee, the former Steam Shop leader( who BTW swore that a Big Boy would never run again).

 It appears that Ego is involved, and Dickens wants the 4014 to be "His Baby" and Legacy. I know it would be a lot of reading if you haven't followed this thread from the start, but Ed Dickens feelings toward the 3985 have been discussed earlier in this thread.

Doug

Seems like its time to lighten this thread up a bit....

for your enjoyment some photos of BB 4012 at Steamtown, taken during Railfest 2013

I have been following this thread for awhile with great interest. I understand people have their favorites engines, the need to have their own legacy and personality issues. But bottom line is this He was hired to run UP steam program and regardless of his views, every one of those engine are important. If 3985 is due an FRA inspection it should be done, repairs made and returned to service. If he cant put aside his personal issues then he needs to go. I also understand there are always money issues but that is not an excuse either. If person who is running NS program can figure it out so can UP.These engines are part of our history and young and old should be able to see these engines run not just sitting in a museum. That my 2 cents

Doug 

well said. ego can be a terrible master. big deal, Steve Lee(or whoever) accomplish this or that. If it wasn't for the predocessor, I might not have MY job. This guy needs to build on the past deeds, make the big Boy his own, and be as well thought of as Steve Lee is.

thanks for the Steamtown pics! doesn't look like the paint is holding up too well though.

The details were released and published in a Trains Newswire, and were also discussed by the Vice Chairman of the So Cal Chapter elsewhere.  They are to receive a SD-40-2 #3105 formerly a MoPac unit, also a former Rock Island bay window caboose #24568 and there will be 2 plaques attached to the tender to commemorate the years it spent in Pomona, also the excursion with the 4014 to benefit the chapter.  UP does own the 4014, that was discussed in UP's own press release.  As for the 3985, she won't be melted into new razor blades.  Lets just wait and see what actually happens.

Chris

I would be interested in what the terms of the deal were.

The August 26 Trains Newswire said:

Dickens declines to discuss the terms of the deal between the railroad and the railroad club, but says specifics will be announced soon.

That is the latest newswire I found that pertained to the 4014 deal, any details, or site info where details could be found would be appreciated.

Doug

Sure thing, you can go to the Trains site and scroll down to August 27th, there you will see the update which reads "Chapter to receive SD-40-2,caboose for Bigboy.  You have to be registered to read it.  The VP of the chapter discussed on the T/O site.

Chris

Thanks Chris,

 I missed that 8/27 story in newswire.

It does seem that an SD40-2 and a caboose were a bit under trade value for a 4000, but, I am glad to see that the deal happened, may end up in the future fewer SD40-2s are preserved than Big Boys.

 Better to trade the BB to someone who CAN/WILL restore it and preserve an SD40-2 and caboose, than to just have the BB sit and deteriorate. 10-15 years from now there will probably be many young railfans that never saw an SD40-2 in actual operation, just in books and videos. Out here in the Pacific North West there are a few Spartan cabs still earning their keep, but they are getting fewer and farther between sightings. It is now a bit of atreat and day brightener to see a spartan cab go by, now rarely in the lead, buried in the power consist. I saw lots of spartan cabs when I was young, never really thought about that some day, they wouldn't be so common a sight, and eventually just on short lines and in museums.

Doug

Your welcome.  I was a bit surprised by the details but I figure if the So Cal Chapter is happy with it then all is well. 

Chris

I think back to the days when all we saw were GG1's running on the rail with a couple daily Metro Liners.  Now the only place to see either is in a museum.  I'm glad they worked this deal to restore the Big Boy and a SD40.  I was at Steam Town yesterday and they have 4012 "preserved" along with a lot of equipment that is sitting out in the weather with no funds to restore.

I went to the LA County Fair today.  They had a $1 admission deal today.  My wife and I visited the Big Boy number 4014.  I wanted to pay my respects to the old girl for one last time before she gets moved.  She has been there in Pomona for as long as I can remember.  I am a native Californian who lives near the LA County Fair.  I took a number of pictures I will post later.  As was stated earlier in the thread they will get a diesel and a caboose. 

I asked how they plan to move the BigBoy and when.  No specific date given. 

They do plan to create a spur line from the Railroad Museum where the BigBoy sits now to the nearby Metro Link line which is about a half mile to mile away.  Then they plan to tow the BigBoy via tractor to the Metro Link Line.  I took pictures of the tractor they intend to use.  I hope the bearings are well greased on the big boy.   They said the bearings were in great shape.  It seems like the tractor is a little small.  It is already hooked up to the BigBoy.  Once they get the Big Boy to the Metro Link Line the UP will use what they call a "Hospital Train" to tow the BigBoy to the UP Mainline.  Once on the UP Mainline they will move the BigBoy to the UP Shops in Colton where they will get the BigBoy ready for the long haul to Cheyenne.  Once it is ready for towing to Cheyenne they will use a Hospital Train again to tow to Cheyenne.

They said the BigBoy should be ready for Steam Excursions no later than 2019.  The plan as it is now is once the Big Boy is operational and tested they will run the Big Boy back to Los Angeles.  At that point they will conduct the first rail excursion from Los Angeles. That sounds like a good plan for me since I live in San Dimas.  You can bet I will do my ****dest to get tickets for the wife and I to have the priviledge of going on the first rail excursion of the newly refurbished Big Boy.  Beats going to Cheyenne although I would gladly go to Cheyenne for a Big Boy Rail Excursion.

I will post pictures from today, 9/1/2013, as soon as I can figure out how to download them to photobucket from my wifes camera, so I can post them here.

basically what this is, is four or five cars in front and for or five cars behind the bigboy and the engine pushing or pulling the consist. 

do a google search for moving the 4018 and you will see picture and videos of them moving a bigboy in Texas last month.

as far as uploading your pictures,  just put them on your computer and up load them to the org forum.  no need to store them on another server.

Thanks for the education. I posted the pictures.

Dumb question, but I am going to ask. Why do they need 4 or 5 cars front or rear to move the engine?

Doug 

Yup, braking like CWEX said.  When UP moved the texas 4018 some people had live video and that was one of the questions.  UP used a GP 38 and once they got the big boy rolling there was no brakes on the engine so they used the other cars for the brakes.

I say when UP moved the bigboy because someone from the UP steam program was in the cab of the bigboy. and UP was in charge, even tho it had BNSF motive power and crew.

I would not worry about the tractor moving the 4014 those things have lots of torque.

nice pictures, thanks for posting!

Thanks for the answer. I was thinking that may have been the reason why, but was not sure.

Due to the grades that they will encounter between the West Colton Shops and Cheyenne Wyoming they will require many more than 4 0r 5 cars in front and 4 or 5 cars behind the 4014, for braking. I fact, what the should do is use 1 or 2 big six axle units in front and at least 1 six axle DPU unit on the rear, thus they will have both dynamic brake AND air brake control on both ends of the "hospital consist" which will most likely include the steam crew's support cars.

I hope they use a few of the heritage units to tow the BigBoy home

The heritage units would really be a cool thing. 

The heritage units are an interesting idea, but my money is on UP using their newest power without mentioning any of their predecessor roads.  After all, this is UP's heritage.

With huge pieces of that boiler lagging missing, it's hard to see how it could be restored to operating condition.  The 4018 had small holes in its boiler lagging, so there must be more than meets the eye when judging restorability.  I imagine new lagging will be fabricated?

I also notice that a lot more of the motion has been removed from the 4014 than from the 4018.

Aaron

didn't know about the first part.

might have removed more of the motion because the move is longer.

The boiler lagging may not be missing, it could have been put in storage to keep it better preserved.  Maybe someone with more inside knowledge of 4014 and the RailGiants Museum at the fairgrounds can shed some light on that.

Some of the running gear was removed when UP crews started performing the prep work on 4014.  After they removed the welded-on rail chucks I heard something along the lines of one or both of the pistons on the engineer's side were found to also be welded, necessitating the additional removal of the running gear; don't know if that's fact or fiction.

If you are under the age of 30 and have never worked on steam, always assume what you think you know is wrong.  I urge you to watch, listen, learn and pose carefully worded questions to those who really know... someone like Hotwater, Rich and Number 90.

The lagging is sheet metal formed to hold insulation against the boiler to hold in heat.  And it looks nice and can be painted.  It is possible to operate a steam locomotive without lagging.  New lagging can be made, although it is easier if you have a piece to use as a pattern.   Lagging has to be removed as part of the restoration process.  It is also sometimes removed to help preserve the boiler from rust/rot and decay.  Lack of lagging on a park locomotive today is often a sign of care and preservation.

You are correct when you say there is more than meets the eye.  In fact, in any restoration it is what you can't see that is the most likely to impact the cost, labor and timing of a restoration.  Your eye can't judge the condition of the boiler and the condition of much of the running gear.  A practiced eye can do better, but only to a degree.  You don't understand the true scale of a restoration until you tear it down.

You will be more likely to learn if you ask good questions rather than to make a statement that is incorrect.  The latter will get you smacked by the old heads. When that happens, don't take it wrong... they are just trying to teach you.   When you reach a point of real interest, find a local museum, tourist railroad and ask how you can help.  Expect to start at the bottom and work up over time.  Then your real education can begin and best of all, the knowledge will be passed to a new generation.

The risk isn't that we lose these wonderful machines to time and rust.  The risk is we lose the knowledge of how to maintain and operate them safely.

Bob

The lagging is sheet metal formed to hold insulation against the boiler to hold in heat

Bob, maybe I am confused about terminology, my understanding has always been LAGGING is what the insulation around a boiler is called, and the JACKET/JACKETING is what the sheet metal covering the lagging is called, am I mistaken?

 It is also my understanding that the insulation/lagging in many/most steam locomotives included ASBESTOS, which now is considered Very Hazardous, and will all have to be very careful removed and disposed of in an approved manner. What are they lagging/insulating boilers with now on restored steam locomotives?

Doug

The outer most layer of metal is the jacket, lagging being the insulation is under the jacket.  As for the 4014 the jacketing was removed and is stored out in Pomona, but it is corroded in areas, I'm sure some can serve as templates for new jacketing which will be made.  The jacketing and lagging being removed is a good thing because if it is left on it will trap moisture and accelerate corrosion, one of the good points of the 4014 is that all the asbestos has been removed.   

It's the jacketing and only sheet metal.  Lagging is the insulation around the boiler.  In the past, it used to be asbestos. 

Any well equipped metal shop could fabricate new jacketing, it's not rocket science.  I seriously doubt that any of the steam locomotives running around today still have their original boiler jacketing.

Rusty