UP Big Boy Restoration

Given the length of time out of service and exposed outside, I doubt anything would surprise them, short of it miraculously restoring itself.

Any guesses as to how long the rebuild could take? 5 years? less? more?

It must be finished by the spring of 2019

Honestly, Chris... that's kind of silly.  What kind of surprise do you think the UPRR DOESN'T anticipate?   If there are going to be any "hidden surprises,"  they're going to be of the nature of "oh, look, we DON'T have to rebuild the whole firebox, or replace 90% of the roller bearings.  I'm pretty confident UPRR is going into this knowing what they're getting into, and what the worst-case scenarios are.

The thing about a steam locomotive is, you truly don't know until you take her apart and do a thorough inspection.  While you can anticipate problems, there are always surprises.  They may be minor, they may be major.  You won't know until you get the locomotive down to the bones.

Rusty

And that's why the estimate is 3-5 years.. a lot of wiggle room depending on what they find.  Really, what can they find that would be surprising/unexpected/unrepairable?  A cracked frame?  That's about all I can think of.  Everything and anything else is just a matter of dollars.

There is a point where the dollars DO matter and the locomotive no longer presents a good return on investment.  I don't think even the UP will just sign over a blank check towards the project.

I don't think that you, I or anyone in the UP organization can anticipate everything that could possibly be wrong with a locomotive that sat idle and exposed to the elements for over 60 years.  We can speculate, but that's about it. 

Right now, there are more unknowns than knowns.  Like I said, until the 4014 gets stripped down to the bones, no one will know exactly what needs to be renewed and what doesn't.

Plus, you never know, in that 3-5 years there could be a management change that decides to shut everything down.  Unlikely as long as the UP remains profitable, but there is always that possibility.

Rusty

Hey MYH or Lionel make some more in the next Catalog, I will be in for the 4014. I have  been in the cab with Matt and other friends. It is a well kept engine, that is why they wanted it.

John

Yeah John but you defected to the East Coast, ya Scrapple-loving traitor.    Now even Matt is talking about betraying and defecting from the AGHR too, what are we SoCals going to do with you guys? 

I'm almost certain we'll see MTH & Lionel offering the 4014 with all the commotion going on with this new project now.

By such statements, I am assuming that you have extensive experience in rebuilding, repairing, maintaining, and operating large main line steam locomotives, especially articulateds? Also, the current UP steam crew really has no one left on the crew with experience on 3985, especially dealing with all the large movable steam supply and exhaust pipes common on simple articulated steam locomotives, and neither does any outside contractors.

Anything they can't see by walking around it and looking!  So no it's not silly because they can anticipate all they want to but you just don't know until your breaking everything down and inspecting things.  All sorts of things can rear their ugly head and your screwed searching for a replacement part, attempting to rebuild what you have ect.  My statement is by no means silly.  I would suggest you read Hotwaters post above mine.  He knows of what he speaks...plenty of talent has left the bldg.  Quite frankly thinking that everything has been foreseen is the mother of all mistakes. 

I remember watching a video of 611's rebuild and they found a crack in a water pump that could not be welded...they had to search for one.  It's those kinds of things that you don't see until you are breaking things down bolt by bolt....and that is by no means silly.  It's just expensive.

Chris

The known unknowns and the unknown unknowns.  As Don Rumsfeld said, while you can plan for the former, you'd better prepare for the latter because they will occur in any project or operation.

Poppyl   

Yeah John but you defected to the East Coast, ya Scrapple-loving traitor.   

Don't think of John as a traitor. Instead, acknowledge that he has grown to appreciate a local delicacy.

When you have a chance, fry some scrapple on a coal scoop in a firebox. Then enjoy a culinary treat from the Keystone State.

Let us know if you would like some fresh scrapple shipped to SouCal.

Scrapple - spanning the country with meaty goodness

Veranda Turbine would be a GREAT scrapple spokesman (spokeslady?)

So much negativity...  did I miss the announcement that UPRR was going to renumber the Big Boy 1361?

It's not negativity...it's reality.  There are always unknowns in anything.

Chris

The prevalent attitude seems to me to be that UPRR doesn't know what they're getting into.  THAT... is foolish.

The pessimistic arm-chair engineers have given me a headache.  

UPRR leadership is composed of knowledgeable people; I suspect they know full well what they're getting into.

Time to sign off for the night....  

Of course they know what they are getting in to...otherwise they wouldn't be doing this.  I don't interpret the responses as negative... to me they are realistic, which is how this project needs to be approached...realistically.  The UP guys are going to succeed with this and 4014 will live and breath again.  But they have a ton of work ahead of them and as the parts come off....things will come up and they will deal with them.  I haven't seen anyone saying that they will fail, or that they are not knowledgeable or that they are going into this blind, just simply that things will pop up....But anyway I am convinced that when the 4014 hits the rails again she will be better than new...I really do.  

Chris 

That's exactly my point:  they will only be "surprised" insofar as they are not psychic, and will not know exactly which hurdles they will face until the work is underway.  There will be hurdles.  I find it very unlikely any of them will be surprising.

It's not pessimistic to be pragmatic.

Considering how ham-handedly UP "leadership" orignally handled the announcement months ago, there would seem to be a certain lack of expertise with these matters.

Rusty

Actually, it appears UP 4014 is a SD70M.  And 1361 is unassigned :-)

Really, it will be interesting to see what they do.  Didn't the last time this happened, they changed the steam locomotive number (844 to 8444)???

Bob

Having spent a bit of time studying these moving pipes on the articulateds at the B&O museum, I've often wondered how they work and just how much of a problem they were to maintain and to get sealed up correctly in the first place.

Bob

I have great respect for American ingenuity and perseverance

BEFORE

AFTER work by Wowak

After years of naysaying, a Civil War era 4-4-0 is running between New Freedom and Hanover Junction south of York. [David] Kloke Locomotive Works, Elgin, IL, completed this beauty in May, 2013

Speaking of articulateds, an East African Railways Class 59 Beyer-Garratt has been restored. Watch her run on YouTube

Pardon me, but...  Skill and knowledge of reworking a Lionel model locomotive translates into skill and knowledge of rebuilding a prototype steam locomotive how?

Last I looked, there were a several differences between the two.

Rusty

>>the current UP steam crew really has no one left on the crew with experience on 3985, especially dealing with all the large movable steam supply and exhaust pipes common on simple articulated steam locomotives, and neither does any outside contractors.<<

Sounds like it won't be easy to find someone capable of operating the BB safely.

How does one learn to operate it with no living person around to teach them?

Joe

Operating it is the EASY part.

Actually, when 3985 was restored they changed the number on the diesel (an sd40-2) so they wouldn't have to change the number of Challenger like they did with the 844.

The irony of the 844 is that it outlasted the diesel (a GP30) which it was renumbered to make room for.

Stuart

You...do see a difference betwen an 1860s style 4-4-0 and a 4-8-8-4 articulated engine? Right?

I see where your coming from....lets hope if there are any that they are positive ones.   

Chris

I find myself deafened by the wailing and gnashing of teeth.  Not to mention the dull scrape of grinding axes.  

Perhaps we could just sit back and enjoy this?  I'm sure they'll be lots of restoration video for later dissection.

I have to agree with Drydock on this. This thread has drifted WAY off topic. Perhaps it's time to let it drift off to page 2...

yup found it here;

http://www.rrpicturearchives.n...ture.aspx?id=3482314

I would hope UP would change the diesel number.

"Last I looked, there were a several differences between the two."

while this is true, other than the flags, what is the difference between the before and after models??

is it possible for us to all agree that it is going to be interesting to watch...starting with the move.

Rusty was talking about the "difference" between modifying an O gauge model and working on a prototype Big Boy.

i know what rusty was talking about, i couldn't tell the difference in the before and after pictures of the reading model.

How many of the forum members on here are going to be working on the restoration or paying for it?  Seems like a lot of you are being very negative about something you have no control or say about.  I can only imagine what a forum would look like when they started the Apollo program, or building the first transcontinental railroad.  Take a chill pill and leave the restoration work to the experts.  Go run your trains.

Jim Miller

An excellent point. Although I spent about 17 years with the UP Steam Crew, on both the 844 and 3985, I retired from contract work with the UP at the end of 2010. Thus, I will NOT be working on #4014! I'll just stick to SP 4449, thank you.