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Originally Posted by Hot Water:
Originally Posted by steam fan:

Seems that the flexible staybolts, since they are just that, flexible, that they seem to last a long time. Taking the caps off and inspecting them is just part of annual maintainence.

 

No, taking the caps off is NOT part of ANY maintenance, annual or otherwise!

 

True, not required but when many of the caps are old, thin and worn replacing caps and seals now makes sense. The code book does not say they can not preform the types of repairs they are making. In your opinion what they are doing is a waste of time and money, to them, they are trying to start over at ground zero with a fresh rebuild, a clean boiler, tender and move forward.

 

Flexible staybolts have a hole drilled all the way up the inside to the base of the ball head, thus according to the FRA regulations, they do NOT have to be inspected. Not even on a 1472 day/15 year inspection. The design is such that, if a flexible staybolt breaks, steam/water will exit the tell tail hole into the firebox area.

 

 Yes

 

They get new seals and have to be torqued to a certain torque spec.

 

Sure didn't know there was/is a torque specification. The caps are tightened against a copper gasket, period.

 

Correct. In my industry when no torque is specified tight plus 1/6th turn is used. I would imagine they have something similar.

 

Nice to see they are actually working on something other than the buildings. Collecting parts for 4014 is half the battle,

 

None of what they are doing has ANYTHING to do with 4014. They are working on 844, NOT 4014.

 True, sort of. They are working to get 844 running before working on 4014. They are ordering parts for 4014. Some parts have arrived, see photos above.

 

having all they need to put it together on hand once the boilerwork and any frame/driving axle box work is done will make the reassembly go pretty quick.

 

 

Originally Posted by N&W Class J:
What I wonder about is once the 844 is operational, have the lessons been learned with regards to proper blow downs and boiler washes or will they just fill her up again with more scale and  mud and such.  Will a proper water treatment program return such as what was in place under Steve Lee?

During my visit Ed said something to the effect that they are working on their water treatment options. Frequent blow downs are also going to be part of the protocol.

My sources say that the pressure is on to get 844 rolling, so 4014 is second in line on the work priority list.

Originally Posted by Tranz4mr:
Originally Posted by Hot Water:
Originally Posted by steam fan:

Seems that the flexible staybolts, since they are just that, flexible, that they seem to last a long time. Taking the caps off and inspecting them is just part of annual maintainence.

 

No, taking the caps off is NOT part of ANY maintenance, annual or otherwise!

 

True, not required but when many of the caps are old, thin and worn replacing caps and seals now makes sense.

 

How did they get "old, thin, and worn", when they were all NEW in 2004/2005?

 

The code book does not say they can not preform the types of repairs they are making. In your opinion what they are doing is a waste of time and money, to them, they are trying to start over at ground zero with a fresh rebuild, a clean boiler, tender and move forward.

 

And there-in lies the difference between the current manager's thought processes and the entire rest of the industry!

Originally Posted by Tranz4mr:
Originally Posted by Hot Water:
Originally Posted by steam fan:

Seems that the flexible staybolts, since they are just that, flexible, that they seem to last a long time. Taking the caps off and inspecting them is just part of annual maintainence.

 

No, taking the caps off is NOT part of ANY maintenance, annual or otherwise!

 

True, not required but when many of the caps are old, thin and worn replacing caps and seals now makes sense. The code book does not say they can not preform the types of repairs they are making. In your opinion what they are doing is a waste of time and money, to them, they are trying to start over at ground zero with a fresh rebuild, a clean boiler, tender and move forward.

 

Flexible staybolts have a hole drilled all the way up the inside to the base of the ball head, thus according to the FRA regulations, they do NOT have to be inspected. Not even on a 1472 day/15 year inspection. The design is such that, if a flexible staybolt breaks, steam/water will exit the tell tail hole into the firebox area.

 

 Yes

 

They get new seals and have to be torqued to a certain torque spec.

 

Sure didn't know there was/is a torque specification. The caps are tightened against a copper gasket, period.

 

Correct. In my industry when no torque is specified tight plus 1/6th turn is used. I would imagine they have something similar.

 

Nice to see they are actually working on something other than the buildings. Collecting parts for 4014 is half the battle,

 

None of what they are doing has ANYTHING to do with 4014. They are working on 844, NOT 4014.

 True, sort of. They are working to get 844 running before working on 4014. They are ordering parts for 4014. Some parts have arrived, see photos above.

 

having all they need to put it together on hand once the boilerwork and any frame/driving axle box work is done will make the reassembly go pretty quick.

 

 

Originally Posted by N&W Class J:
What I wonder about is once the 844 is operational, have the lessons been learned with regards to proper blow downs and boiler washes or will they just fill her up again with more scale and  mud and such.  Will a proper water treatment program return such as what was in place under Steve Lee?

During my visit Ed said something to the effect that they are working on their water treatment options. Frequent blow downs are also going to be part of the protocol.

My sources say that the pressure is on to get 844 rolling, so 4014 is second in line on the work priority list.

Frequent Blow downs are also going to be part of the protocol! Yeah ya think? The 1st thing that I noticed when the pictures were posted of the deposits from the boiler!

 

Yes, I hope the leader has learned something, as well as, his followers. They can only follow as they are lead.

 

 There are several Boiler Training Classes around the country, and possibly some that have/do locomotive boiler training. Might be a good class for all of them to attend!

 

 

Originally Posted by Hot Water:
Originally Posted by steam fan:
 
Just a question here for Hot Water;

 

I dunno, I enjoyed the shop photos, but I have spent a lot of years in maintenance shops (not steam locomotives) and I know a busy shop when I see one. I don't really get that impression from all the informative pics posted. Yes, there's work going on, but is it just my jaundiced eye? What are your impressions?
 
 
Originally Posted by Firewood:
Originally Posted by Hot Water:
Originally Posted by steam fan:
Just a question here for Hot Water;
I dunno, I enjoyed the shop photos, but I have spent a lot of years in maintenance shops (not steam locomotives) and I know a busy shop when I see one. I don't really get that impression from all the informative pics posted. Yes, there's work going on, but is it just my jaundiced eye? What are your impressions?

In my opinion, it is all designed to discredit the previous crew, i.e. Steve Lee. It is all "make work" stuff, so as to look good for the totally clueless management in Omaha.

Originally Posted by N&W Class J:
What I wonder about is once the 844 is operational, have the lessons been learned with regards to proper blow downs and boiler washes or will they just fill her up again with more scale and  mud and such.  Will a proper water treatment program return such as what was in place under Steve Lee?

If Ed would just follow the established standards and practices that the other successful steam operators use and stop trying to be the smartest guy in the room, he wouldn't have to give it another thought.  The fact that he seems to think he has to come up with something different or "special" just shows how clueless he really is.  How hard would it be to just say "Hey we tried something different that looked good on paper, but it just didn't work out.  Now, back to the old way"?  No matter how talented some people think Ed is, (Like many, I don't) he does NOT have the chops to just go this stuff alone on changing what has worked on this equipment for decades and decades.  He might some day be the best steam operator in the nation (not likely), but for now and the foreseeable future, he's just a little league baseball coach that got picked out of the crowd to manage the New York Yankees. 

Well said Bob, you hit the nail on the head.  Just say hey I/we tried something new and it failed miserably and now we are going to have to fix things and get back to what we know works.  Stuff happens, folks understand that, what they don't understand and won't accept is finger pointing and deflecting.  The former crew under Steve Lees' leadership always had steam operating, year in and year out with out fail and IMHO were the pinnacle of steam operations.  There was never any whining or b*#@!ing or excuse making....they simply got it done...period. 

     Now I understand with different folks there are and will always be different ways of thinking and different ways of working a problem, that's normal but when it comes to industry standards they must be followed, there is a reason they are "standards".  The former crew had and has IMHO a very good reputation and the proof was in the pudding as the say as steam always operated year after year.  Maintenance was performed, repairs/rebuilding was done in the off season or over the course of a few years as was the case when the 844 received and entirely new firebox, cab insulation, new wood ext.  They didn't keep things running on a wing and a prayer, nor with bubble gum and bailing wire, but with dedication, hard work and a genuine love for what they did.

       So I hope that when operations resume that they do indeed perform proper blow downs, washouts and for gods sake get the water treatment back on track and use what is supposed to be used, don't damage the 844 anymore/again by failing to do this....she is just too fine of an engine to do this to with too much history behind her, and (I hope) a ton of bright future in front of her.

 

Kent I do wish to say thank you for sharing your photos and information, I do appreciate it and your time.  Lets hope things improve out in Cheyenne and that UP Steam will rise up from the ashes.

Kent I do wish to say thank you for sharing your photos and information, I do appreciate it and your time.  Lets hope things improve out in Cheyenne and that UP Steam will rise up from the ashes.

 

Chris

Your welcome. I had fun doing it even with those non third rail types of the NMRA . It was a bit more interesting this time since it was a normal work day in the steam shop. Usually it's during Depot Days. I'll get my third rail back under me at the TCA convention this week.  

 

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