Thanks, Peter.
Jim, I used to love the Hamm's Beer ads with the dancing bears. That was one of the most popular beers in NW Iowa where I grew up. "From the land of sky blue waters" I remember Dinah Shore singing about baseball, hot dogs, apple pie, and Chevrolet.
Nikhil - I used to belong to the TCA and I did attend one York and loved it. My so Jim has made it to several, but I haven't for some reason. I used to say everyone should go to at least one and I still believe it.
Art
I have enjoyed watching your RR over the years. Thanks for sharing the process.
Thanks, Joe.
@Chugman posted:Thanks, Peter.
Jim, I used to love the Hamm's Beer ads with the dancing bears. That was one of the most popular beers in NW Iowa where I grew up. "From the land of sky blue waters" I remember Dinah Shore singing about baseball, hot dogs, apple pie, and Chevrolet.
Nikhil - I used to belong to the TCA and I did attend one York and loved it. My so Jim has made it to several, but I haven't for some reason. I used to say everyone should go to at least one and I still believe it.
Art
@Chugman Wow, that's awesome! You ever plan on going back to the show?
I've thought about it, but have no plans currently to go. But, as they say "never say never". It was a lot of fun to see so many trains and meet so many great people.
Art
As I have been focusing on improving my operating sessions, I felt the need to add more passenger stations to the layout. My name trains like the California Zephyr stop at just the main stations, but the local passenger train stops at all stations and even one flag stop at Sabula. Here are some pictures of stations I recently added.
This is my Plano station on the first day that it opened for business. You can see that there is still landscaping and lighting that needs to be added, but with five people waiting for the first train it was an encouraging start.
LaGrange added a station too and was not to be outdone on first day crowds. Again landscaping and parking lot lights need to be added, but that didn't keep commuters away. Even Railway Express was in business.
Wichita's new station has opened as well. The local is seen just as it departs after making a station stop. The location seems a little suspect with such a large grain elevator complex next door, the train always seems to bring excitement and paying passengers.
Art
It’s sure nice to see lots of passenger service on your railroad, Art. That is a lost thing in my neck of the woods! 😉
Thanks Mark. A new train buddy of mine is modeling all the railroads that served Cincinnati. He is modeling both freight and passenger, but he loves to switch cars to make up passenger trains. He and some of his real railroad friends know the exact consist of actual passenger trains are replicating it on his railroad. Very cool and opens up a whole new area of the hobby My layout is not setup to do that so I run complete trains without changed the cars.
Art
Making up passenger trains to replicate the prototype is another dimension of the hobby a few enjoy. I am like you, Art; I can’t switch passenger cars.
Right now I have my Western Maryland Scenic Railroad train up on my Ceiling Central Railroad, which is just one loop. I also have a NYC 4-car set that is awaiting a rebuilt Hudson to pull it.
I have been thinking a lot about how to improve my operating sessions. Recent discussions with a new train friend, David Hadley, convinced me to start running trains bi-directionally on my double-track mainlines. To prevent total chaos with trains running towards each other on the same track, it was decided that I needed a working realistic signal system that we can actually run trains by.
I wanted the signal system when we first built the layout, but the expense, complications, and lack of good signal bridges prevented me from pursuing it. Terry Christopher of Custom Signals even made a signal location plan for me that I still have.
I discussed all of this with my train friends and we came up with a plan. There is so much talent among them we decided on a team approach.
Signal Project Team Members:
We will be assisted by David Hadley, a former railroad consultant and operations-oriented railroader for 32 years of his career. He also has a working signal system on his layout that uses Atlas “Pennsy” style position light signals. He helped us develop what signals were needed to operate the layout as realistically as possible. He explained to us where and why we should place the signals to best achieve our operational goals.
My son, Jim Williams, who loves trains as much as I do. He brought the knowledge of being an electrician, a layout builder, and a love for signals to the project. We originally planned my layout to have an Atlas signal system that we could actually run trains by, but it was side tracked by a number of issues. He is doing everything from making the signal bridges, wiring all the LED’s in the targets, to designing and installing all the signal and interlocking boards.
A close friend, Alan Nelson, known as AlanRail on the OGR forum, is fellow model railroader and has developed the skills to make just about anything with his 3D printers and laser cutters. His background as a structural engineer has also been a big asset for our project. As I have researched real signals, Alan has made extremely accurate 3D designs and printed them. He has also created special boards to hold heads for painting, jigs for drilling properly aligned holes for heads on brass poles, researched special glues to assemble signals, and numerous other tasks critical to the project.
Another long-time friend, Steve Horvath of Atlas, encouraged us and has provided valuable knowledge in figuring out the sometimes-complex wiring and logic involved with developing our system. He has helped us locate key Atlas components and is always a phone call away when we need help.
My grandson and Jim’s oldest son, Doug Williams joined our group and has been a huge asset in helping with under the layout wiring, wiring signal board clusters, and is looking forward to operating sessions after it is operational.
And lastly myself who will fund, access materials, coordinate, paint and weather bridges, and hopefully keep things moving.
I will start posting pictures and reports of our progress.
Art
Art,
I will be following along with this closely. I actually went with the Custom Signal product and have everything installed. Right now I am doing a bit of trouble shooting to get everything working properly. It has definitely been a learning curve for me but, just like you, I know it will add a nice level of realism that is often times omitted.
Dave
A signalling project is a lot of work and none too cheap, but well worth it once installed and working. Will you be setting up an Absolute Permissive Block system? That's what I use on bi-directional single track.
Dave, we are just beginning to install signal board clusters and lighting the signals that have been installed on the layout. We have six signal bridges to build and install on the lower level. All detector wires have been soldered to the rails, but we haven't connected any to the boards yet. And we have not connected the wires from the Tortoise to the interlocking boards yet either. We aren't sure what problems or issues we may have yet, but are optimistic.
Art
Bob, I'm still learning the terminology, but I think ours will be more of a CTC style operation. The dispatcher or tower operator will set the switches which will alert and guide the engineers if they will taking the diverting or straight route through the crossovers and passing sidings. And the occupancy feature will tell them if the path is clear, approach, or stop. We are using a one block approach and not a two block one due to the size of the layout. I'm relying on my real railroad expert to teach me the terminology and systems. Boy does he have a challenge!
Beautiful picture of your layout. Wish I lived closer, I would love to attend one your sessions.
Art
Ambitious project, looking forward to seeing how this all works out. 
John we are expecting it to be a heck of a ride, but worth the effort. On bad days, I think we are crazy, but on good ones I can't wait to get back at it. If I didn't have the special guys helping me, it wouldn't be possible. I feel very blessed in that regard.
Art
I was visiting with my son Jim yesterday and he corrected me on my statement regarding our one block approach. He said we are using a two block approach instead of a three block approach. I'm not 100% sure what difference that makes, but I just wanted to correct my error. All of this is a big learning experience for me, but I am loving the ride so far.
Art
I found that there is a lot of background information necessary to develop a signal system. Many decisions need to be made to get the project off on a sound footing. Examples are:
A rather daunting list for any one individual, but a team can break it into more manageable segments. I learned a long time ago that this hobby is more fun when it is shared. I not only couldn't do this alone and when it is done, I can't and don't want to operate it alone. Yes, I can still run trains around the layout in a realistic fashion with no help and the signals will change as trains pass them, but the true fun and excitement will only happen when it is operated by a group of us.
Just my two cents worth.
Art
Art, the list looks overwhelming to me, as an individual modeler. However, it sounds like Jim has a good handle on it. I'll look forward to seeing how the project progresses to completion. Watching yours saves me from pulling my hair out trying to do it on my layout!! 
We ended up using over 150 circuit boards (Atlas and Custom) plus in excess of 3 miles of wiring. we prewired all of the boards on the bench and installed terminal strips and 66 blocks to make the interconnect., dick
Flyboy62 that's a lot of signal boards and wiring. I see that you chose to cluster all your boards together rather than have them located in high density areas of the layout. We opted to go the other route, but I'm sure either works well. Have you used the new interlocking boards? What type of layout do you have? Double-track or single-track mainlines? I have 11 blocks on each mainline of the double track for 22 and then the upper level which will have another 7 I believe.
Thanks for joining the conversation.
Art
Wow Art, this is an exciting thread to follow, friends like Terry Christopher and Steve Horvarth will help you dramatically. The Custom Signal system is a great way to go. Good luck and thanks for sharing your project with us, your layout is beautiful. Happy Railroading Everyone
Art: I have 3 main lines of which two parallel each other for a portion of the layout. What we did was to secure an 8 (or 10) post terminal barrier block beneath each Atlas switch on the layout. We than ran Cat 5 wiring back to our area at the back of the layout we had the boards mounted. We then punched all of the wire into telephone style 66 blocks. Each switch uses 5 wires (3 for the switch and 2 detects). That left 3 wires for miscellaneous purposes. In some cases we drove relays that were installed adjacent to the barrier blocks to switch center contacts on the switch to power the center of the switches to avoid arcing. We also installed an additional 15 or so barrier blocks around the bottom of the layout and terminated them in an adjacent area and punched them down also. This wires are used for running accessories or switching accessories on and off remotely. This made adding items quite easy and avoided having long runs when we wanted to add a powered accessory.
We did the same thing for our lighting albeit we used heavier wiring. All of our lighting is fed by six 18vac transformers. Lots of amperage.
Adjacent to the boards mounted in the back we have 11 Lionel LCS switch modules which drive the Atlas 6924 boards so that we can control the switches via CAB2 or an iPad.
While it sounds very busy it really was quite simple once we thought our the schema.
Good luck on your project. I know you and your son will have great results.
dick
Larry, thanks a lot. I seem to recall that you have a very nice layout as well. It's fun to share on this forum. I have noticed that every time I visit someone's layout, I learn something from it. It doesn't matter what scale it is or how many rails there are.
I hope my signal journey will be interesting and inspire others to start their projects as well.
Art
Dick, thanks for the additional information on your system. I'm impressed with people that are organized and knowledgeable in this hobby. I know just enough about what you told me to appreciate what you have done, but don't ask me to repeat it. My son, Jim, is my electrical guru with his years as a commercial electrician and a life-long model railroader. I know we have what we call "power routed" my switches that we had trouble with engines stalling at slow speeds. We used Atlas non-derail boards and Tortoise switch machines. This combo gives plenty of connection points for my control panels and driving our Atlas signal and interlocking boards. We use Lionel power bricks for good dependable power. We power signals, switch machines, and any accessories with independent power and not track power.
Art
Yes. sounds like you did everything right!
One of the first decisions you have to make on a signal system is what style signals you will use. I have always loved searchlights. I checked and all the railroads that I model had them.
A second decision is which type of signals to use? I have a double-track mainline that goes completely around my main or lower level and some areas where there are three tracks. I refer to that as “the race track” a term used to describe the three-track mainline from downtown Chicago to Aurora, IL and the BNSF’s Eola freight yard. Signal bridges are used extensively there and I want them on my layout as well.
As many of you know, there are a few choices for O scale signal bridges, but each as their strong and weak points. I won’t name them all, but they are easy to find.
My layout before starting this new project had a few bridges on it and a few Atlas single target mast signals. My son, Jim, and I talked about how to make our own. He suggested upgrading a Lionel 450 bridge with new LED lights. He did and I painted and lightly weathered the bridge structure. It wasn’t a precision, detailed masterpiece, but it didn’t look too bad either. And I found out after we installed one on my layout that you didn’t spend that much time examining the bridge structure, but it was very cool to see the lights and watch them change as a train passed. Another thing that I liked was that it was a metal bridge and when screwed to the layout was “rock solid”. I liked that, so we built some more. They used detector wires soldered to the outside rail blocks of track. They were powered by relays that Jim installed.
We began picking up the Lionel 450 bridges at local train shows for reasonable prices. We didn’t care if they worked or not, we just wanted the bridge structure.
All this was just setting the stage for me wanting to go beyond this first step. I wanted searchlight signals that displayed three colors, not just red and green. We wanted to know how many blocks ahead were clear or approach lighting.
This will be addressed and explained as we move along, but I wanted to show a few pictures of what the old signals that I just described looked like on the layout.
With the structure of the bridge decided, our next task was to find or make searchlight targets to mount on the bridges. More on that as when the story continues.
Art
Next we needed an inventory of how many bridges we would need. The initial count came up with seven 2-track bridges, six 3-track bridges, and two 2 1/2-track bridges. The 2 1/2-track bridges are wider 2-track bridges that had to be placed on curves. We checked clearances and the normal 2-track bridges weren't wide enough. Plus one cantilever bridge and three bracket signal bridges for the upper level.
My son Jim made all these bridge structures from the Lionel 450 signal bridges. It took two 2-track bridges to make each 3-track bridge. It turns out that we had collected just enough of these used Lionel bridges. Once these were all fabricated Jim gave them to me to paint a dull black (Rustoleum Camo Black) and lightly over-sprayed with a rust color for weathering. When this was done I gave them back to Jim so he could build and mount the signal heads.
Here is a picture of the bridges during the painting process. The 3-track bridge at the bottom right does not have legs as it will be mounted to the side of a highway bridge in our Chicago Junction block.
Art
Searchlight signals in O gauge are hard to find, so we determined that we would have to make our own. Alan offered to design and 3D print them.
We next needed to find LED’s that would provide the color accuracy and distinct three colors of red, green, and yellow. My son Jim and Alan started searching for LED’s and ordered the best candidates that they could find. Jim found some good ones, but they required us to solder the wires to them. They were so small that it was a very difficult task. Meanwhile Alan ordered some from a Chinese supplier online called Wehonest which were already wired. Jim and Alan tested them for color accuracy and they looked very good.
The next issue was how best to mount them inside the heads. Alan’s first design looked great, but proved to be difficult to install the LED’s in. Alan’s next innovation was great. He designed and 3D printed a Fresnel lens to glue the LED’s to. He then redesigned the heads in two pieces and the Fresnel lens fit snuggly inside the head. I didn’t know what a Fresnel lens was before this, but this is what real railroads use on their signals too. It focuses, directs, and intensifies the light. They are also used in our traffic lights for the same reasons.
Alan recommended a special glue to install them and we had our searchlight head problem solved. I ordered enough LED’s to make all our signal heads, Alan printed all the heads and Fresnel lens, and Jim started assembling them in a production mode.
Here are a few pictures.
LED's with four wires attached to provide the three colors. Red, green, yellow, and black for common.
Alan's final two piece head design. The head is designed to slide on a brass pole. The back is glued on after the LED's are installed in the head.
Alan's design for the backs of the Fresnel lens. The LED's fit perfectly into the cavity on the back.
The front of the Fresnel lens.
Jim holding a LED to show it's size. They are very small to work with.
A disassembled Atlas signal for comparison.
Now we have about 75 heads to build, paint, and find the best way to install them to the signal bridges.
Art
Alan is a treasure for us!
I couldn't agree more. His ability and attention to detail is awesome.
Art
Here are a few more pictures of the signal heads or aspects as they are being assembled.
This picture shows a couple Fresnel lens, the one on the left shows the back side and the pocket that the LED goes into. The lens on the right is the front that faces out. You can see the circular lines. The dime is for size comparison so you can see how small these components are which makes them harder to work with.
This is a painting jig that Alan made to make it easier to paint the heads. Alan's ingenuity never ceases to amaze me. I insert the heads in the jig and spray them black. Then after they are dry, I remove them and send them to my son Jim. He glues the LED assembly into the Fresnel lens and that into the signal head. Then he glues the back of the signal head on and returns them to me to paint the backs in the jig.
This pictures shows some heads removed from the painting jig and ready to send to Jim.
Here is a head that Jim has assembled and sent back to me to paint the back.
In this picture you can see the Fresnel lens mounted in the signal head better. Jim tests all the heads after he has completed this step to be sure the LED's are working properly. We have had about a 4% failure rate, but at least we are finding out before everything is completed. It will much harder to replace after the bridge is completely assembled.
Next I will explain a little about the testing board that Jim built to test signal boards (both the older ones and the new ones), the interlocking boards, and all the signals and LED's after they are completed before installing on the layout. The plan is to build and test everything possible at the work bench before it's installed on or under the layout.
Art
Those signals are awesome. What a great addition to the layout Art.
Joe thank you, I appreciate your comments. I have wanted to have an accurate, working signal system since I started my present layout. I put it off until now due to all the difficulties, but it if not now, when? So far, it has been a fun challenge.
Art
The fully wired signal head showing the micro-Fresnel lens.
Like this.
Only Jim could wire this so neatly.
This is wonderful to see come together! Thanks for taking the time to share! Look forward to updates. Learning a lot
Looks like a great project Art. Alan is truly a great resource for custom parts.
I used to be in the theatrical lighting industry, I'm quite familiar with fresnel lenses.....
I'll be following along, a working signal system will be a must-have on a future layout. I'd use PRR position signals though since that's what I'm most familiar with.
Bob
Alan - I agree that Jim is a perfectionist when it comes to his wiring. So are you in regard to the quality of your 3D printing. I'm not sure how I could be so lucky as to have you as a friend and Jim as my son, but I am pleased and grateful. It makes this project so much more fun and doable. Thanks!
Art
LT1Poncho - Thanks for going on this journey with us.
Bob - I never thought about Fresnel lens being used in theatrical uses, but it makes sense. My friend David uses PRR position signals on his model railroad. He is color blind and can't tell the colors on my searchlights. I wonder how many real railroaders have or had that same problem?
Art
The next step in our signal bridge program was figuring out the best way to attach the poles with the heads or targets on them to the bridge structure. Alan had an idea and designed and printed a "saddle bracket" that fits over the top of the Lionel 450 signal bridges. He made it to look like the design of the sides of the Lionel bridge. It was secure and very easy to attach to the bridge structure. Here is his design picture.
It was a very clever design so we checked it out.
It is not painted black in this picture which makes it stand out more than it would after it was painted.
It had a lot going for it, but it just didn't look quite right to me. We talked about it. I wasn't exactly sure what bothered me about it, but it didn't look realistic enough to me. I was reminded that the Lionel bridge isn't exactly an accurate scale model either, but I still felt that it looked pretty good when it was painted and weathered. I just felt that there had to be a better way So, we went back to brain storming about it.
Art
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