Use of Copper Clad Aluminum Wire

Tried & true copper is always the best & for that amount there can't be that much difference.

Ken M

It's generally high quality marketed for speaker wire usually. It is a higher resistance so I would go up a gauge from what you were thinking...say use 12 instead of 14 for track power. That will cost a little of the savings, so do the math.

Electrical extension cords and cords for table lamps, vacuum cleaners and old computers are all made of 14 gauge copper stranded wire.  See where I'm going with this? I get all mine from the garbage (mine and that of others.)

Check out Home Depot when they have a sale on 100 foot contractors' extension cords. Then compare the price (there are three conductors, remember) to the price of the so-called made-for-trains stranded wire.  It's all the same stuff.

Aluminum wire is not less efficient for short runs, nor is it inherently dangerous, but it's definitely not copper.

Do not use aluminum wire for anything. Period.

Any cost savings you might realize will be more than offset by problems you WILL encounter in the future.

Use the all copper wire. OGR sells very nice wire for layout use in #14 & #16 and it is all copper. I thought it was reasonably priced as well. Wiring is very important to a proper operating layout, don't skimp on the wiring or wiring accessories, this is not the place to save.

Ditto.....wise advise......shop around.......

I also use one size bigger than recommended. Always over-build.

Common guys, it's not a religion. Copper clad aluminum is perfectly good wire. You just have to research the specifications, cost, and understand how it fits your layout. Think about it...the engines and cars get their power thru steel rails. Talk about resistance! And understanding that, you just have to use more drops. Same with copper clad aluminum as wire.

I would not touch aluminum wire with a barge pole. If I got some for free I would sell it for scrap. 

Just because it is low voltage does not mean it is not problematic. I would stay away from aluminum wire,period. I agree with the previous poster,sell it for scrap.

Dale H

COPPER, tried and true! 

Copper wire only.  Do not use anything because the price looks good.  Use the proper item and do the job one time and keep moving on.

While I'm not entirely convinced it really matters for low voltage ac, short runs, my experience in automotive applications says to run away from aluminum wire.  This is one of the things I can't see pinching a few pennies on... then again, those are only copper plated as well.  

Chiming in, copper is king.

I would suggest using copper wire.

My sister in law's house in LA sits where a home was that burnt down because of aluminum wire.

Fred

Had aluminum battery cables on a 1970's Olds.

Just saw an episode of This Old House where they had existing aluminum wire in a 1960's house getting a huge addition and the electrician was running copper for all new wiring. He mentioned the galvanic corrosion between copper and aluminum leading to sparking down the road and that to possibly fires. His wire nuts had some type of goop in them to prevent it I believe. Recall seeing that some switches/outlets are copper wire only. Aluminum must expand and contract much more than copper leading to loose connections?

History shows that all aluminum non-metallic sheath cable was used for home building about 1972 through 1976, mostly modular or mobile units.  You can still purchase receptacles and switches that are rated Cu/AlR for aluminum conductor/cable use.  Two problems existed.

First Terminations that involved both metals copper and aluminum tended to react chemically. A fair amount of this connection exist, usually where power companies (Aluminum) connect to customer service (Copper) There are special split bolt hardware assemblies that add another plated material and a spacer to separate Cu/Al connections. In addition there is a whole world of special application compression connections and tools used by the power company and commercial contractors using Aluminum conductor.

Second Aluminum tends to oxidize faster than copper. Aluminum oxides tend to increase resistance, and loosen terminations, causing heat/poor electrical connections. Most cases the circuit faults to open/loss of power. There are oxide inhibitors, (grease), that are used to correct this.   Proper maintenance and proper devices, aluminum non metallic sheath cable still is in use today.

Note that I didn't mention Copper clad (outer shell of usually a solid aluminum conductor is copper).  Intended purpose is to correct the two problems I mentioned above. Our application, train wiring, a plus would be that the outer copper shell would conduct, transmit, the RF signal much like a solid copper wire, RF signal travels on the surface of the conductor.  The aluminum core is not as good a conductor as copper. 60 hz electric or DC, 12 to 18 volts, would require (2) sizes larger conductor to do the same application. Example: Those using 18 ga. copper for track power, would need to use 16 ga. Aluminum for the same effort.  Keep in mind when you purchase aluminum conductor it needs to be (2 sizes) larger.  

It's not aluminum. Its Copper Clad Aluminum. It can be soldered, crimped, and generally used the same as Copper Clad Copper except the copper wire gauge guidelines should be revised for it. Voltage has nothing to do with it. Current carrying capability is what is somewhat less.

Aluminum wire in houses is a totally different issue. The issue with 100% aluminum had to do with attaching the wire under screw terminals where the expansion rates of the wire and the screw terminal were different enough to loosen the connection over time. And by the way, home electrical devices have been redesigned because of that.

And by the way, the standard gauge recommendations will probably be revised for building wiring due to the use of switching power supplies, etc. Current from these devices require a larger gauge depending on the quantity of them in a particular building.

Facts and information are most helpful...more than "no", "yes", and "trash".

Also, it's not always obvious to know if what you are using is pure copper or copper clad aluminum. It looks just like pure copper unless you cut it and look directly at the cut end. You will see that the strands look copper, but will have a bright silvery center. That's the aluminum center.

If you have aluminum house wire, you must use devices that are compatible. Most of the devices I've seen  in home improvement stores like Lowes, and hardware stores like Ace are not compatible with aluminum wire. Last I looked, Lowes had a limited selection. (had to pick up some aluminum compatible devices for a friend)

There is an anti-oxidation creme that should be used on any connections or splices with aluminum wire.

I would leave any work with aluminum wire to pros with whom I have a history.

As far as wire for trains goes - I'd go the extra money for copper, just for ease of use, and not having to think about it.

Aluminum wiring was a big problem in the 70's. As previously stated the problem is connecting it to dissimilar metals resulting in loose connections over time. I remenber what my parents went thru getting it fixed. 

Now a days they have the copper clad aluminum and it is used in many consumer products with no issues.  It must be good otherwise they wouldn't use it, especially after the 70’s fiasco.  I believe copper clad doesn't pose any safety issues.

However there is one thing that gives me pause and that's the statement by a previous poster about the increased resistence of aluminum wire.  I'm certainly not qualified to talk to that issue but I would wonder if copper clad could possibily introduce any issues with DCS and such. In a perfect wiring setup they work very.  But anything less than perfect it will drive you nuts troubleshooting the issue. I'd hate to have to rewire if it does cause a problem.

One good source to check out for wire are the building surplus stores.  I've found some really good deals on wire from them.  But that is a hit or miss deal so you need to check periodically to catch a deal. 

Ed

DO NOT USE ANYTHING MADE WITH/FROM ALUMINUM!    

Please, allow me to ask a few questions. Are you married? Do you have any pets? Do you have any children? Do you have any grand-children? These are all reasons to NOT use aluminum wiring regardless if it's clad. How many more can you think of? There has to be reasons why it has been outlawed in so many states.

A voice crying in the wilderness and no one is listening.

Guys, this stuff will not cause your house to burn down. The only reason I would not use it is because its much stiffer than pure copper. Its made for long straight runs. It would be a PITA trying to run it under your layout and solder or otherwise connect it to track or accessories.

Pete

100% copper wire is always best!!

Aluminum wire was banned for residential use by the National Electric Code, so there must be a reason for it and there is; aluminum is a fire hazard.

Stranded copper works good when you need a flexible wire otherwise solid copper is lower in cost per foot.

If you plan to use anything other then pure copper wire you can plan on re-doing your layout wiring.

Lee Fritz

Nothing wrong with aluminum wire if installed properly.  That being said I would only use copper on my layout.  Just go to home depot and purchase a couple rolls.  I used 14 gauge on my layout.  I bought a roll of red for track power on one loop and a roll of orange for track power on the other loop.  I used black for the outside ground rails on both loops.  I used fastrack and installed a power drop every forth section of track.  Each drop was connected to a terminal block and the terminal blocks were connected together and connected to the TIU and transformer.  Some may say I used to many drops, but I have 10's all the way around my one scale mile loops.

I find that copper clad aluminum wire is very tough to solder for some reason.  You wouldn't think that would be, but it is.  It also has higher resistance.  I bought some cheap test leads on eBay, they were obviously not pure copper, and they have a noticeable effect on resistance readings.

FWIW, they still use Aluminum wire on high current runs and for the service entrance in residential wiring.  One of many cites on aluminum in current wiring.

Today, aluminum AA-8000 alloy is fully recognized by industry standards and is required in all aluminum building wire installed per the NEC.^® This new aluminum is generally compact stranded according to ASTM B-801. Compact stranding reduces the diameter of the conductor by 9-10%. Equal ampacity AA-8000 aluminum and copper conductors can usually be installed in the same size conduit because of the compact stranding. Annex C in the 2008 NEC^® includes tables for determining conduit fill when using compact stranded conductors. These tables can be used for both compact stranded aluminum and copper conductors.

Folks,

Thanks for all the replies. I must admit that the price of stranded copper clad aluminum vs. stranded solid copper is tempting (less that half) when you consider I will use several hundred feet (8 runs of 50 ft + from the terminal block, for 4 loops, not counting the numerous shorter ones) the savings could have been substantial. It was worth investigating.

However, as the general consensus in this thread has said, there is no substitute for 100% stranded copper. There obviously is a reason that aluminum has not totally replaced copper.

Thanks again for all who commented. The layout will use 14 gauge stranded 100% copper wire for all track feeds. Remember no matter what you do in this hobby, the important thing is to enjoy it! 

Chris

The power companies use a special grade or hybrid of aluminum mix for their wires and would not be able to be bought by the average consumer because of cost per foot.

Lee Fritz

Note that compact stranded is unique.  Picture a normal stranded wire with round strands, several layers  twisted/spiraled together.   Compact stranded uses a profile cross cut section of the strand than looks more like a trapezoid. The Effect, once twisted together, is more of a solid conductor that behaves/bends like a stranded conductor.   More conductor is compacted in a unit space v.s. normal stranded wire.

Lee, virtually all the high current wiring in current construction is aluminum wire, so obviously someone other than power companies can buy it.