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Just a quick thread to show a few mods I just did on my Lionel Vision Niagara. While only two items it required a fair amount of disassembly to complete. I wanted to bin the Canon motor and get rid of the bright silver smoke box. I used a 12v 9433 Pittman to replace the Canon and its virtually a drop in replacement. Same bolt pattern and shaft size. Just had to clean up some burrs on the flywheel.

D6A0B4E2-32CA-42CE-AF92-3E3C26B52A08

Next repaint the smokebox. I still had some Floquil graphite paint that hadn’t dried up from 30 years ago. Piping was masked off using Micro Mark liquid masker. Its actually a bit darker than what appears in the picture.

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I still want to replace the rod screws with something closer to prototype as I did on my TMCC Niagara. Stay tuned.

Pete

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Last edited by Norton
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@D500 posted:

Just curious, but what was your objection to the Canon motor?

Not to start the debate again:

There are a few people here on the forms that do not like the cannon motors due to them failing and blowing up the command board.

I have been working on a lot of models that have these motors but I have not personally seen any issues. They aren't perfect, but that's the cheapest option available for the manufactures.

Thanks guys. JM I airbrush the smokebox. The top shell was off for the motor swap. I was able to remove some detail. From the bottom shell and pry it up far enough to get paint on it. On the TMCC Niagaras its easier to remove the bottom shell but this engine has many more boards that have to be removed to do that..

Bruk, this what I did on my TMCC Niagara. Flathead allens to sort of give the impression of nuts on the bearing retainers.

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D, the Canons have a reputation for failing and shorting out the RCMCs. I have a few Pittmans so its wasn't a huge deal to swap it in.

Also, I don’t care for the overall paint scheme. Not a fan of factory darkened rods. I would rather weather an engine myself. This has the odd combination of as built whitewalls and running board stripe with in service siderods plus the silver smokebox which I have never seen on any Niagara, new or in service. I am leaning towards replacing the running gear with silver and keeping the whitewalls as a fresh from the factory version.

Pete

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Last edited by Norton

Nice upgrades.

Pat @harmonyards has run that 12V 9433 with success in Legacy Hudsons, so it should work great in your Niagara. I'll be 9433 swapping my own Legacy ATSF 3751 class Northern shortly. I just wish there was room for a 9434 size motor in these Legacy models. Lionel used 9433s in the most of the TMCC versions of Legacy locomotives. Probably something to do with electronics packaging with the Odyssey system.

Last edited by Lou1985

Lou, the TMCC Niagara has a 9433. No problem pulling 13 18" heavyweights. I debated about using a 9434, its close, but knew the 9433 would work for sure.

Bruk, I have had a number of requests for the rod screws but I don't have a CNC mill. They are pretty tedious to make and yield is nowhere near 100%. Maybe someday I will take the plunge.

Pete

Last edited by Norton
@Norton posted:

Lou, the TMCC Niagara has a 9433. No problem pulling 13 18" heavyweights. I debated about using a 9434, its close, but knew the 9433 would work for sure.



Most of the TMCC 4-8-4s used 9433s from what I have seen. I just like the 9434s for the little bit better low speed grunt for starting a train. Seems like once the train is moving there is very little difference between the two.

The painted smoke box looks way better.  Lionel’s choice for bright silver always puzzled me until I found a single photo of a Niagara (I don’t recall which number, I don’t have the book with me) in Know Thy Niagaras with what appears to be a bright silver smoke box.  So there is a prototype for Lionel’s choice, but surely that was an outlier and likely didn’t last long.   Lots of Niagara pictures with stripes and whitewalls.  

Your Niagara looks fantastic with the upgrade.  Thanks for sharing

@Steam Guy posted:

Hello,

Huge improvement with the rod screws!  Where does one obtain the flathead allen screws that you used?  What size are they?

Thanks in advance

Lionel uses M2.6 x .45 TPI screws. 10, 14, and 16mm long. I ended up using M2.5 x .45 screws as they are more common in machine threads in a greater variety of lengths. They seem to grip the threads as well as the 2.6 screws.

I got them from McMaster Carr but have found 10mm and 14 mm on Amazon in assortments.

I am currently searching for brass screws at least 16mm long. No luck so far. Rather than just drill dimples I want to drill holes that I can insert nut-bolt-washer castings in.
We’ll see.

Pete

Wow. This is all so incredibly expert and informed - that I can't resist adding the following.

Pete, sorry, but I just don't share your aversion to shiny silver smoke boxes; in fact, I think they are one thing Lionel does better than anybody else:

SilverSmokeBoxes

I have posted this before - not to provoke anybody, of course, as these are both "fantasy" scheme engines, by which Lionel seem to set a lot of store. (Thankfully, that has given us back the die cast Veranda.)

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Hello,

Here is the detail showing the roller bearing crankpin detail.  The photo is of an O Scale 2 rail C&O 4-8-4.  There are 2 parts of the crankpin screw detail; 1 showing the slotted screw that goes through the round detailed part and scroller smallroller smallrews into the end of the crankpin and 2. the round circular disc having the detailed nut and bolt detail.  I have seen someone who replaced the slotted screw with a hex head screw. 

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