VL Big Boy 2331270 Sound Problem

I believe this is a known issue with this run, I don't know why they work that way.  There's several threads on the overall lower volume for all the sounds.  I know my 2023 VL-BB doesn't have the volume of my original 2014 VL-BB for any of the sounds.

Wow. Thanks John.

This is the sound at max level coming from the engine alone.

Here you can hear how much lower the engine steam volume is vs the Tender.  

I’ve searched under various titles/key words but haven’t found other threads about this? Any links to previous threads on this known issue?

Thanks to all.

Finally found them. Interesting reading.  

So, I talked with Lionel. They are offering me a Return Authorization to send it in for warranty repair with a 6-8 week turnaround.

But - I also talked with the seller and they are agreeable to me returning the unit to them for a full refund.

Given this seems to be a chronic issue with the sound quality on this run of VL-BB’s, I’m leaning to just return it for the refund.

But - if Lionel can increase the quality and the bass frequency I would prefer to keep it. I’m just not sure what the ‘repair’ might entail and if their fix wasn’t satisfactory I would then be outside of my return window and then would have to keep it or sell it.

Thoughts?

At some point I'll probably pop the top on mine and see if I can fabricate a baffle to enhance the sound from the locomotive.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

At some point I'll probably pop the top on mine and see if I can fabricate a baffle to enhance the sound from the locomotive.

You think it’s more a physical issue than the sound chip/card?

@ThatGuy posted:

You think it’s more a physical issue than the sound chip/card?

Well, I can say with certainty that a speaker baffle will increase both the volume and the bass in virtually every case, so that's the first thing I'd try.

I had to open my Vision Line BB to repair a pinched wire.  While I was there I did a quick simple test.  Hope this provides some information.  Adding a baffle will help.  I did additional testing using different baffle volume size.  The larger baffle volume provided a better sound, however, you will be limited to its size.

Wow Dave! Thats a drastic improvement!

I’ve reached out to Lionel again and asked them what the ‘repair’ might be. I also told them that it appears nearly certain this chronic issue is the lack of the sound baffle on that engine speaker and if they could install one.
I will let you know what they say.

Yep Dave, the baffle is really mandatory for good sound.  That's on my list for my 2023 model.

Aw man I definitely noticed this on mine as well

Would a baffle from the previous run fit? Or from the tender?

someone else tried it & it didnt fit or had to be modified to fit the newer model

Thanks Tom.

@Raven87 posted:

Would a baffle from the previous run fit? Or from the tender?

It doesn't fit, but I'm thinking maybe a 3D printed creation might do the trick.

@Raven87 posted:

Thanks Tom.

https://ogrforum.com/topic/wea...-vision-line-big-boy

check out this other post about the volume issues

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

It doesn't fit, but I'm thinking maybe a 3D printed creation might do the trick.

I would buy one if it was available as I’m sure others would too.

@tom21pa posted:

https://ogrforum.com/topic/wea...-vision-line-big-boy

check out this other post about the volume issues

Very informative. Thanks Tom.

I had already bought another one (2331250 #4014 Oil Burner) that should be here on Monday. I’m anxious to see how it compares.

I spoke with Bill (BillYo414) regarding possible 3D printing a baffle enclosure.  You can see his comments on the other thread.  He said his 3D printer was having issues and he never got one made.  Not sure if he still plans to make one or not.  In any case, while not as elegant, a cardboard tube/enclosure would also work.

Based on the vid I bet so too.

How much vertical room is in there? I would imagine not much?

@Raven87 posted:

I had already bought another one (2331250 #4014 Oil Burner) that should be here on Monday. I’m anxious to see how it compares.

I have that exact engine, it has the volume issue.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I have that exact engine, it has the volume issue.

Thanks John. I figured it probably does.

@Raven87 posted:

How much vertical room is in there? I would imagine not much?

The speaker is 40 mm diameter and there is about 30 mm above half the speaker and about 25 mm above the front half.  Half the speaker is located under the sand dome the front half has the same clearance as the smoke unit height.  Take a look at the photos.  I tried to align the shell to the base.  As a note, the heat sink behind the speaker does go up into the dome part of the casting.

Great pics and info Dave. Thank you.

Did you try a much shorter cardboard tube baffle, one that might fit within that space?

So this is the parts breakdown pic of 6-11437 #4014 VL-BB.
part #51 is the upper enclosure/baffle so it appears to not need a lot of room above the speaker have an effect?
I would imagine the plastic appearing material it’s made of would contribute as well to sound quality?

@Raven87 posted:

Did you try a much shorter cardboard tube baffle, one that might fit within that space?

I did.  The smaller volume does not sound as good as the larger volume,  but it still is way better than no enclosure.

It is possible to calculate the optimum size of a speaker baffle, but in almost all cases for our trains, it's a moot point.  The calculated size of the baffle would virtually always be larger than the space available.  That being said, the usual method is to use the space available to get as close as possible.

Another technique that helps is porting of the baffle, but the size and location of the port(s) is really way more complicated than most folks (including me) care to attempt to calculate.

For an example of great volume from a very small source, you only have to look as far as your pocket, cell phones have amazing volume for the tiny speakers used.  Laptops are another place to find well engineered sound systems.

Sounds like an example of ‘something is far better than nothing’.

I'm intrigued by Lionel's offer of an RMA.  I'm betting it's a sound card swap to an updated louder whistle and other tweaks -- that would be the only way to fix that particular issue.  I still have over a year left on my warranty so I'll wait and see.

I’m tempted to send it just to see what/if they do to it.

@Raven87 posted:

I’m tempted to send it just to see what/if they do to it.

Please keep us posted on what Lionel's planned fix is for the weak sounds on the 2023 Big Boy.

I may send my #4019 in also.

Thanks Superchief.
I haven’t decided yet to send it to Lionel or just return it to the seller.
I got my other new VL BB yesterday (gloss black #4014 #2331250) and as expected it has the same issue - almost non-existent steam sounds and a reduced whistle sound in the engine alone.
I’ll definitely keep you guys posted.

The volume in the 4014’s tender is slightly louder than 4019’s. No idea why.

Without a sound baffle on the engine speaker I can’t imagine what else they might do. They said it could be a sound card or speaker issue but given they are essentially identical in sound quality I don’t think it’s either one of those?