Want to add sound to Legacy Alco Pa powered trailing unit

Its doable, I had @gunrunnerjohn put sound in a powered a unit that didn't have sound.  You will need a soundcard from lionel and a speaker. You may have to order a whole new board since they are making the whole thing all together now,  tho he was able to do it with an older sound card for me,  I suggest contacting him.

@tom21pa posted:

Its doable, I had @gunrunnerjohn put sound in a powered a unit that didn't have sound.  You will need a soundcard from lionel and a speaker. You may have to order a whole new board since they are making the whole thing all together now,  tho he was able to do it with an older sound card for me,  I suggest contacting him.

Thanks for responding.   Yes,  what I didn't realize is that as you said,  everything is now on one main board now I guess,   including the sounds,   which is why there is no separate sound board.   What I need to find out is whether the board in the trailing unit is pre-programmed with sounds already loaded(probably fat chance of that!) and I can just add the correct speaker and plug it into the board.   I was hoping not to have to buy a whole new main board(probably the same one as in the lead unit with sounds).   As far as just buying a separate correct legacy Alco Pa sound board and where to plug it into on this trailing unit board,  I don't have a clue.   Hopefully, @gunrunnerjohn will see this thread and give his insight.   If not,  I will contact him.

@metalman posted:

Thanks for responding.   Yes,  what I didn't realize is that as you said,  everything is now on one main board now I guess,   including the sounds,   which is why there is no separate sound board.   What I need to find out is whether the board in the trailing unit is pre-programmed with sounds already loaded(probably fat chance of that!) and I can just add the correct speaker and plug it into the board.   I was hoping not to have to buy a whole new main board(probably the same one as in the lead unit with sounds).   As far as just buying a separate correct legacy Alco Pa sound board and where to plug it into on this trailing unit board,  I don't have a clue.   Hopefully, @gunrunnerjohn will see this thread and give his insight.   If not,  I will contact him.

We tested that too, no pre programmed sound on board, I didn't know that and bought a older sound card and he got it to function. Not 100% perfect, but for just Prime mover sound is fine.

@tom21pa posted:

We tested that too, no pre programmed sound on board, I didn't know that and bought a older sound card and he got it to function. Not 100% perfect, but for just Prime mover sound is fine.

That's good to know and kinda what I expected.   I am also looking just for the prime mover sounds.   I see there are Railsounds Lite boards available for the 2019 runs of the Legacy Alco Pa's but how and where that would connect/plug in to this new all in one board is the question in addition to which board the speaker would then plug into.

@metalman posted:

That's good to know and kinda what I expected.   I am also looking just for the prime mover sounds.   I see there are Railsounds Lite boards available for the 2019 runs of the Legacy Alco Pa's but how and where that would connect/plug in to this new all in one board is the question in addition to which board the speaker would then plug into.

I wondered that too, but John figured it all out

@metalman posted:

That's good to know and kinda what I expected.   I am also looking just for the prime mover sounds.   I see there are Railsounds Lite boards available for the 2019 runs of the Legacy Alco Pa's but how and where that would connect/plug in to this new all in one board is the question in addition to which board the speaker would then plug into.

There is a serial data output on the LCP2 board, that's all that's really needed other than power, a speaker, and the volume pot.  The trick is working with the small 1.5mm pitch connectors to build the cables.   You buy the RS-Lite board, a holder, a speaker, and you're on your way. One thing you occasionally run across, the fuel tank for the unpowered unit doesn't have speaker baffle holes, so you may have to buy a new tank or do some drilling.

I've added sounds to a number of powered units that came with no sounds, but Tom's with the LCP2 was the first with that board.  I think the serial output serves double-duty, for powered units with sound, that's the LCS IR transmitter, but for units without sound and the IR transmitter, it apparently puts out serial data.  At least for a sample of one it does.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

There is a serial data output on the LCP2 board, that's all that's really needed other than power, a speaker, and the volume pot.  The trick is working with the small 1.5mm pitch connectors to build the cables.   You buy the RS-Lite board, a holder, a speaker, and you're on your way. One thing you occasionally run across, the fuel tank for the unpowered unit doesn't have speaker baffle holes, so you may have to buy a new tank or do some drilling.

I've added sounds to a number of powered units that came with no sounds, but Tom's with the LCP2 was the first with that board.  I think the serial output serves double-duty, for powered units with sound, that's the LCS IR transmitter, but for units without sound and the IR transmitter, it apparently puts out serial data.  At least for a sample of one it does.

John,

Thanks for responding-I appreciate it.

My Alco Pa trailing unit already has the fuel tank with baffles/speaker openings.   It even has the speaker enclosure(the LCP2 board is actually mounted to the top of it as shown in the photos).   After reading your post as to what's required,  my problem is that I don't have the electronic skills to do this conversion.  I have no idea where the serial data output is on the LCP2 board.    I can purchase the sound board/mounting bracket,  fatboy speaker w/connector and the volume pot from Lionel.   I don't have any connector plugs and have no idea what would be required let alone making the cables.   In addition it looks like the volume pot needs to have wires soldered to the three lugs and those wires would need to have a connector at the other end to plug in somewhere.

I was hoping this would be a simpler project(for me at least).   By going the sound board route,  I'll have about $120 in parts/shipping and still need to fabricate/assemble everything.   What I'm thinking now is to just wait until the warehouse sale and buy the same LCP2 board that is in the lead engine along with a speaker and just swap the boards,  plug for plug.   I'd be into it for the same amount of money with less grief.

@metalman posted:

I was hoping this would be a simpler project(for me at least).   By going the sound board route,  I'll have about $120 in parts/shipping and still need to fabricate/assemble everything.   What I'm thinking now is to just wait until the warehouse sale and buy the same LCP2 board that is in the lead engine along with a speaker and just swap the boards,  plug for plug.   I'd be into it for the same amount of money with less grief.

I think you may run into issues with the lead engine board.  Since when you apply throttle, it's going to expect to see a motor and an encoder, and it'll detect an error when they're not there.  Remember, when the wharehouse sale comes along, you'll be able to get that $120 in parts you mention for $60.

I had the same thought on my set of Mr. Muffins E-9’s. I had a speaker and connectors so I tried it and just got static. No huge surprise, be nice if we could field program boards (I won’t hold my breath but just maybe if we complain enough)

They should just put sound in both units, stop being cheap.

@zhubl posted:

I had the same thought on my set of Mr. Muffins E-9’s. I had a speaker and connectors so I tried it and just got static. No huge surprise, be nice if we could field program boards (I won’t hold my breath but just maybe if we complain enough)

That ain't ever gonna' happen!  First off, you'd have to invest in the development system, but then the real challenge, Lionel releasing the code outside the select few.  Not a chance in that hot place down below.

@tom21pa posted:

They should just put sound in both units, stop being cheap.

Sure, that's gonna happen right after the let us download code.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I think you may run into issues with the lead engine board.  Since when you apply throttle, it's going to expect to see a motor and an encoder, and it'll detect an error when they're not there.  Remember, when the wharehouse sale comes along, you'll be able to get that $120 in parts you mention for $60.

John,

My trailing unit is powered with dual motors with the encoder on the front motor.   You're right about the sound parts for $60 at the sale but I'm still not comfortable doing the work.   What's the movie line-"a man has to know his limitations".

Not sure what size the speaker is in the OP's Legacy PA, but many moons ago I powered a speaker in the powered-but-no-sound B unit from the board in the A unit.  I think I replaced the 8-ohm speaker in the A unit with two 4-ohm speakers wired in series, one in the A unit and one in the B unit.  Only issue is I now have a small two conductor wire between the two units.  These two sound just like the training A unit although I think the volume settings are different.

@CAPPilot posted:

Not sure what size the speaker is in the OP's Legacy PA, but many moons ago I powered a speaker in the powered-but-no-sound B unit from the board in the A unit.  I think I replaced the 8-ohm speaker in the A unit with two 4-ohm speakers wired in series, one in the A unit and one in the B unit.  Only issue is I now have a small two conductor wire between the two units.  These two sound just like the training A unit although I think the volume settings are different.

If you use two 16 ohm speakers, they're in parallel, and the A-Unit sound works without the B-Unit.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

If you use two 16 ohm speakers, they're in parallel, and the A-Unit sound works without the B-Unit.

Could have been two 16-ohm speakers in parallel.  Or maybe I replaced a 16-ohm with two 8-ohm in series.  It was a long time ago.