WEIRD.....ZW-C anomally

Nick,

   Usually when this happens with a Z Transformer of any type you have a bad track some place on the layout causing a short, or lots of times it's a lighted piece of rolling stock not on the track properly causing the problem.

Good luck with your investigation.

PCRR/Dave

I wonder if the potentiometers are adjusted such that they run out of range at the top. Is that possible?

What are the bricks putting out before the transformer controller?  Remember the A channel brick also powers the internal electronics. 

Also I know of more than a few 180w bricks that drop voltage to 17 v or less under minimal load. 

Try switching the bricks. That should indicate either track or power supply.

Good topic....   Mine also act the same sometimes.  When I rebuilt the A and D channels with the new aluminum pot mounts over a year ago, the pots were all adjusted and certain to obtain full range..   First there was no problems, no drops in output, even opened once to check and verify pot full travel range.  Also have 4 180 bricks, with two additional and the same with 135 bricks.  Dave, Jack, Marty and John... thanks for the input!   Nick, here is hoping you, also, determine and correct whatever it proves to be.  Will be posting my results soon...... I hope!   LOL!!

Jesse    TCA

You say you are running in command. Are you using TMCC? Did you accidentally program the up voltage limit on the ZW-C PowerMasters? The ZW-C instructions discuss how to reset the programming.

George

Marty: all 4 bricks putting out just a hair under 19 volts.I removed all lighted rolling stock and Locomotives from the layout.Tracks 1 and 4 are exactly 1 volt less than tracks 2 and 3.-Thanks

George: I am running Legacy Command. What kind of re set are you talking about? I preformed the potentiometer re calibration and it made no difference.The book does not mention anything about  an up voltage limit.I have no power masters in the circuit.-thanks

Are these power bricks regulated? If so it was my understanding that there is no voltage drop even under load if a power supply is regulated.Am I right on that? Nick

The bricks are just transformers with an electronic circuit breaker on the output 

The ZW-C has 4 internal PowerMasters and can take commands from TMCC. Since Legacy is backwards compatible with TMCC, the Legacy system can control the voltage of the ZW-C. I checked the manual, and it says the upper voltage is controlled by the handles. However, it says to disconnect the command base (Legacy base in your case) when doing the recalibration using the program button on the ZW-C.

Hope this helps.

George

Hey Nick,

I went and re-read your original post here and just noticed something.  What switches are you using?  Fastrack?  You mentioned a couple switches throwing sluggishly.  Are these powered by the loops only getting 17volts?    I ask as I use a ZW-C with 4 180w bricks, and even with locos and lighted pax cars, anything 14volts or higher and the switches snap as if new.

This may go along with what PCRR/Dave mentioned about something in that loops causing some type of short.  Possibly those switches themselves.  Just spitballing here with some more ideas for you to look at.

As an aside I just tested mine. All 4 channels on my ZW-C show 19.5v when all handles (A B C D) at full, and just as with yours, all go to zero just fine via TMCC

By the way, are you reading the voltage off the add-on meter for the ZW-C? What happens if you disconnect the outputs to channel #1? Is the meter battery fully charged? The meter should stay on for a little bit after you shut off the power. Then I believe it says "Off" and then eventually goes dark.

George

David.... using Fastrak switches. I have to be honest the slightest short causes the ZW to shut down that particular track instantly.Just have one switch that seems a little sluggish (but does work)  on track 1. The other 12   switches on track 1 fire at a snap.I wonder if that slow switch is a problem. However that still does not explain track 4 ??? Thanks David..

George S posted:

The ZW-C has 4 internal PowerMasters and can take commands from TMCC. Since Legacy is backwards compatible with TMCC, the Legacy system can control the voltage of the ZW-C. I checked the manual, and it says the upper voltage is controlled by the handles. However, it says to disconnect the command base (Legacy base in your case) when doing the recalibration using the program button on the ZW-C.

Hope this helps.

George

George yes I re programed with the base un plugged and all 4 levers down all the way. Power bricks on.Started back up with handles up all the way. Thanks Nick

George S posted:

By the way, are you reading the voltage off the add-on meter for the ZW-C? What happens if you disconnect the outputs to channel #1? Is the meter battery fully charged? The meter should stay on for a little bit after you shut off the power. Then I believe it says "Off" and then eventually goes dark.

George

George I added my own panel volt meters to each of the 4 track out puts but I am going by my VOM with probes directly on the track. However the  panel meters jive exact.Thanks Nick

I think you should test the ZW-C Independant of the track. I would start by disconnecting everything from the ZW except one Powerhouse 180. Then, check the output of channel #1 with your VOM. If it still won't go to 19 volts, then the ZW needs servicing. If it does go to 19 volts, then it's a layout wiring issue.

George

I don't run any conventional engines or have a need to vary the track voltage with the Cab2 remote. I just set my fixed voltages with the handles and bring up the layout with an on/off switch.

Why do you need command mode for the Track power?

Anyway, do the outputs equal one another in non-command mode? Are the outputs equal at the A,B,C.D and U terminals without the meters connected? The meters do have a small resistance. Disconnect them as a potential load causing the variance,

This is an issue that you have to isolate by working your way from the start. Bricks are good and equal-check. next...

The slow switch may just need some mechanical tuning. Check the lantern bar for drag. Also, if you changed sides, there is a run that didn't have enough clearance for the lantern bar where is passes through the roadbed. Also, the motor screws may be too tight. Loosen the an 1/8 to a 1/4 turn to take motor pinion gear pressure off the segment gear.

Carl-I need command because tracks 2 and 3 are independent loops incase I want to run conventional locomotives.I will work on that switch-I don't think it's related to my problem here.-Thanks

Here's what I did:

removed all trains from layout- cleaned the track (I have never cleaned it). Dismantled the ZW and bricks.

Tested everything from start to finish.Preformed the throttle calibration again.

Re installed everything.Tested and now it is dead on.

I don't know what I did to fix it as I never seen anything wrong. I think PCRR Dave may of had something but not sure.

I am going to clean,lubricate and inspect every piece of rolling stock as I put it back on the layout.

You guys are the best as always. Nick 

rockstars1989 posted:

Carl-I need command because tracks 2 and 3 are independent loops incase I want to run conventional locomotives.I will work on that switch-I don't think it's related to my problem here.-Thanks

Here's what I did:

removed all trains from layout- cleaned the track (I have never cleaned it). Dismantled the ZW and bricks.

Tested everything from start to finish.Preformed the throttle calibration again.

Re installed everything.Tested and now it is dead on.

I don't know what I did to fix it as I never seen anything wrong. I think PCRR Dave may of had something but not sure.

I am going to clean,lubricate and inspect every piece of rolling stock as I put it back on the layout.

You guys are the best as always. Nick 

Great news!

When you rechecked after cleaning, was in command mode?  My understanding was the ZW-C for one reason or another would read lower voltage output when in command mode.  Also, channel A is the channel that powers the whole ZW-C, so it would read lower going to the track.

Channel A never reads lower voltage on my unit. I think you are thinking about possibly drawing more amps. That would be hard to tell without the right meter setup.

Mine has always shown max of 17 volts. I only run command (Legacy) so it has never bothered me. There may be a plus or minus accuracy percentage rating on the electronics used. 

sinclair posted:

When you rechecked after cleaning, was in command mode?  My understanding was the ZW-C for one reason or another would read lower voltage output when in command mode.  Also, channel A is the channel that powers the whole ZW-C, so it would read lower going to the track.

Yes was in command.All 4 channels now are within 2/10 of a volt.Nick