WHAT I'm looking for in a LIONEL steam engine before I'll pull the credit card. . .

Your credit card will likely be safe for the foreseeable future.

It's odd but I don't have many requirements for Diesel engines.

"4. swinging bell (few engines do but they all should)"

Even models of the real ones that did not have swinging bells, which would be most modern steamers and some earlier ones...? Why would you want that? Very inaccurate.

BTW, almost none of your list is important to me, nor even desired by me. Pretty much, only the features that pertain to it being a reasonable representation of the real thing. Not that you asked.

I have to agree with D500:  in fact, these kinds of desires are largely WHY steam engines cost as much as they do.

palallin posted:

I have to agree with D500:  in fact, these kinds of desires are largely WHY steam engines cost as much as they do.

Not to mention a reasonably high failure rate. Thus, I would much rather have a prototypically accurate model of a steam locomotive.

What model train in any gauge has IR control? Unless you have a tiny layout where the engine is always visible what good would it do?

Pete

It sounds like the upcoming Legacy H10 will fit your bill. Has most features you listed including whistle steam/swinging bell. I'm not sure on wireless tether my Legacy B6 has a tether. I went with the #1773 H10 "Coal Hauler" set myself.

Why does it only apply to Lionel products?  We should expect all the latest features and details for that amount of money regardless of the manufacturer. 

SuperChiefer84 posted:

It sounds like the upcoming Legacy H10 will fit your bill. I went to with the #1773 H10 set myself.

I have one on order also, but my vision isn't good enough to spot the swinging bell.  A Legacy Heavy Mikado is a beautiful engine as is a 10 Wheeler, also Legacy.

BTW what Railroad line are you interested in, or is that a requirement?

Be careful; just because the catalog says "whistle steam and swinging bell" doesn't mean they will arrive that way.  Fool me once, shame on you.  Fool me twice, shame on me.

Chuck

If a swinging bell is a requirement, I think that's going to be a major limitation on your choices. If the upcoming H10 has one (if Superchiefer84 is correct - I don't know), other than that, the Vision Hudson is the only other engine that has a swinging bell, as far as I know. But the Vision Hudson doesn't have Bluetooth. So you'd be stuck with only one choice.

Probably not a good plan.

AT&SF 3000 2-10-10-2 Visionline Mallet has all of this stuff except bluetooth. Your CC will be injured though.

you cant beat the Niagara Vision Line has every possible feature you could want including smoke on the sides of the tender really cool .pop off valve 3 speakers blue tooth etc

https://www.bing.com/videos/se...307985&FORM=VIRE 

check out the video!

Alan

I want an engine that works out of the box, prototypical correct, and one that I can get parts for no matter who makes it.

Allan Miller posted:

Your credit card will likely be safe for the foreseeable future.

As should be in dealing with Chinese Lionel. Currently my credit card balance is zero dollars, that's almost unamerican. $2500 for a O scale locomotive? that's insane!!!!!!

With all the things models do nowadays.But the others are right about the swing bells.A lot of steamers had bells where only the clanger moved.I have two steamer in my collection a  kline gs4 and a mth class j.

Hot Water posted:

palallin posted:

I have to agree with D500:  in fact, these kinds of desires are largely WHY steam engines cost as much as they do.

Not to mention a reasonably high failure rate. Thus, I would much rather have a prototypically accurate model of a steam locomotive.

I agree with hot water, ( yes hell may have frozen over )

Dave

What I'm looking for in a steam engine... No gimmicks, just a quality design.  Basically, 1960s-era US Hobbies mechanical design rendered new in die cast metal, that will run on O72 or sharper curves.  Another way to describe this set of requirements, would be exactly what MTH is doing in HO scale.  Too bad they ran out of money or gave up on our market, and never tooled a chassis like this in O scale  .  Specifically:

- Wheels and axles that are replaceable without pulling / pressing.  i.e., chassis with "bottom plate" or individual pedestal binders.

--> for extra bonus points, include a non-rubber tired wheelset in the box (or made available for separate sale)

- Large, quality motor in the firebox

- Worm wheel as large as possible, mounted on one of the MIDDLE driving axles

- Separate steel worm gear and ball-bearing gearbox connected to the motor by a universal joint

- Geared for ~4 scale mph at 600 RPM

Not rocket science, just sound execution of the long-accepted best practices in model engineering.  First one that builds it gets my $900!!

I have many K-line scale steam engines including three Berkshires and never paid over $450 to $550 for any of them. When steamers started hitting the one thousand mark I stopped buying. Don

If you guys want DOWN and DIRTY steam engines,  start your own thread.

I'm willing to pay reasonably for finely scaled steam engines with all the bells and whistles ( no pun.)

I don't think I'm alone in this.  

AlanRail posted:

If you guys want DOWN and DIRTY steam engines,  start your own thread.

I'm willing to pay reasonably for finely scaled steam engines with all the bells and whistles ( no pun.)

I don't think I'm alone in this.  

Well, you may not be "alone", but I'd bet you are part of a pretty small market share.

Hot Water post

Not to mention a reasonably high failure rate. Thus, I would much rather have a prototypically accurate model of a steam locomotive.

"Reasonably" high failure rate? An odd use of the adverb 'reasonably". If that was the word you intended, your opinion of Lionel quality is very low. (I'm not saying it isn't poor).

Typically "reasonably" means: 1. in a fair and sensible way, 2. to a moderate or acceptable degree.

That said, your choice of wording made me grin.

Alan Mancus posted:

you cant beat the Niagara Vision Line has every possible feature you could want including smoke on the sides of the tender really cool .pop off valve 3 speakers blue tooth etc

https://www.bing.com/videos/se...307985&FORM=VIRE 

check out the video!

Alan

Don't see that the Niagara has a swinging bell, though. So you're back to just two choices. Actually one, because the Vision Hudson, while it has a swinging bell, doesn't have BlueTooth.  So you're down to a single engine. 

Becomes a simple choice, to get all you want. To paraphrase Henry Ford, you can get any engine you want, as long as it's an H10.  

Must have :

Smoke unit with nichrome wire that doesnt burn out if it runs dry

Doesn't get stuck in neutral, forward or reverse

Doesn't have electronic motor control ckt boards to worry about going bad with no replacement boards available

Can generate ozone as it runs

Has a mechanical e-unit so you can hear it in neutral

Needs very little maintenance ( lube every five years,  no tires and no fan motors)

No loose parts in the box.

No trucks falling off coming out of the box

Does not need an ID number

Looks like its durable and can be played with.

AlanRail posted:

If you guys want DOWN and DIRTY steam engines,  start your own thread.

I'm willing to pay reasonably for finely scaled steam engines with all the bells and whistles ( no pun.)

I don't think I'm alone in this.  

Since, in reviewing the original post you never posed a question, I'm not sure what response you were seeking.

It could've ended with Allan Miller's first response.....that pretty much summed it up for me.

OTOH, since you've made the above comments..."start your own thread","I don't think I'm alone in this"...unless you were hoping for nothing but supportive opinion, I think all responses are appropriate.

And, here's another one...

You'll be finding crow to be very tasty   

Just MHO, mind you.

KD

aussteve posted:

Must have :

Smoke unit with nichrome wire that doesnt burn out if it runs dry

Doesn't get stuck in neutral, forward or reverse

Doesn't have electronic motor control ckt boards to worry about going bad with no replacement boards available

Can generate ozone as it runs

Has a mechanical e-unit so you can hear it in neutral

Needs very little maintenance ( lube every five years,  no tires and no fan motors)

No loose parts in the box.

No trucks falling off coming out of the box

Does not need an ID number

Looks like its durable and can be played with.

 

There is plenty of them, it's called PW Lionel. 

With normal maintenance, runs as advertised FOREVER or until death do us part.  I have the Vision Line Hudson. That should be the norm, not the exception.  I've watched the Mogul debacle very closely this past year.  Personally, I may purchase a Lionel steamer, but as of now, not gonna preorder one for a good long time.  BigRail

david1 posted 

There is plenty of them, it's called PW Lionel. 

There it is. Just took a little longer. 

Alanrail, nice topic, your thoughts are good, however, cylinder blow down would be cool to. This sounds like a quality VisionLine Steamer which could be another Brass Hybrid, maybe a 2-10-4 Pennsy Heavy Locomotive.  This would be a great engine to bring back loaded with all your choice features. Good thread, you never know what’s down the road, you might be surprised.  I also like the ramp walkway between the Locomotive and the tender....WOW....It’s only money...Happy Railroading...

AlanRail posted:

My needs ( wants) have changed dramatically in the last few years. This only applies to LIONEL products but I do buy MTH and GGD engines but less so.

Before I spend $800- $2500 on a steamer it must have my most desired features in a Legacy/Odessey/Vision Steam Engine

1. Bluetooth control

2. Whistle steam ( so cool!)

3. IR control

4. swinging bell (few engines do but they all should)

5. wireless tether

6. nice lighting with tender backup lights

7. great detailing of small details; piping must be applied not cast.

8. detailed cab interior (glowing firebox)

9. controls hidden up-top

10. great sound which for Lionel goes without saying.

 

Personally, I am hoping that Lionel's next brass hybrid meets with "AlanRail's" above criteria; we should know later this summer.

AlanRail posted:

My needs ( wants) have changed dramatically in the last few years. This only applies to LIONEL products but I do buy MTH and GGD engines but less so.

Before I spend $800- $2500 on a steamer it must have my most desired features in a Legacy/Odessey/Vision Steam Engine

1. Bluetooth control

2. Whistle steam ( so cool!)

3. IR control

4. swinging bell (few engines do but they all should)

5. wireless tether

6. nice lighting with tender backup lights

7. great detailing of small details; piping must be applied not cast.

8. detailed cab interior (glowing firebox)

9. controls hidden up-top

10. great sound which for Lionel goes without saying.

 

Why settle.  I would add the following:

11.  Fireman figure that shovels coal and checks the gauges.

12. The engineer figure that reaches up and pulls the whistle to make it quiver.

13. And most important, the locomotive and tender come with a 50 year guarantee that covers all parts, labor and postage.  This guarantee is transferable to the new owner no matter how many times this locomotive is sold.

Who is on board?

MartyE posted:

david1 posted 

There is plenty of them, it's called PW Lionel. 

There it is. Just took a little longer. 

 

aussteve posted:

Must have :

Smoke unit with nichrome wire that doesnt burn out if it runs dry

Doesn't get stuck in neutral, forward or reverse

Doesn't have electronic motor control ckt boards to worry about going bad with no replacement boards available

Can generate ozone as it runs

Has a mechanical e-unit so you can hear it in neutral

Needs very little maintenance ( lube every five years,  no tires and no fan motors)

No loose parts in the box.

No trucks falling off coming out of the box

Does not need an ID number

Looks like its durable and can be played with.

 

Marty,  My comment was only for the post above and not an endorsement of running PW Lionel. Guess I was not clear enough.

Dave

Alan Mancus posted:

you cant beat the Niagara Vision Line has every possible feature you could want including smoke on the sides of the tender really cool .pop off valve 3 speakers blue tooth etc

https://www.bing.com/videos/se...307985&FORM=VIRE 

check out the video!

Alan

What and where (located) is a pop off valve.

Thank you

daylight posted:

Alan Mancus posted:

you cant beat the Niagara Vision Line has every possible feature you could want including smoke on the sides of the tender really cool .pop off valve 3 speakers blue tooth etc

https://www.bing.com/videos/se...307985&FORM=VIRE 

check out the video!

Alan

What and where (located) is a pop off valve.

Thank you

Pop valves release excess steam pressure and are always located on the top of the boiler.

Rusty

I'm with Alan. Good for you for making a list.

Maybe the Lionel Hybrid is what you are eluding too? NOTICE that you will have not seen ANY for sale?

MTH has some great items too so don't discount what they offer, but it looks like you are already are leaning towards a Lionel product?

Note that the Vision Line CCII PRR locomotive offered the swinging bell as well.

I hope the Brass Hybrid takes off like a rocket.... a good medium ground product between scale brass and a dependable chassis with some Vision Line features...

My only beef is Lionel cannot make them quick enough.

Jushavnfun posted:

SuperChiefer84 posted:

It sounds like the upcoming Legacy H10 will fit your bill. I went to with the #1773 H10 set myself.

I have one on order also, but my vision isn't good enough to spot the swinging bell.  A Legacy Heavy Mikado is a beautiful engine as is a 10 Wheeler, also Legacy.

BTW what Railroad line are you interested in, or is that a requirement?

I like pretty much everything if it looks cool. I have BN, SF, CSX, GT in diesel power (love the Legacy SD40's, ES44's and AC6000's) also have some smaller Pennsylvania steam engines at the moment, PRSL B6 0-6-0 and PR A5 0-4-0, can't wait to add the H10 with all the cool features. I have only been in hobby since Christmas 2016 so things may change. 

Rusty Traque posted:

daylight posted:

Alan Mancus posted:

you cant beat the Niagara Vision Line has every possible feature you could want including smoke on the sides of the tender really cool .pop off valve 3 speakers blue tooth etc

https://www.bing.com/videos/se...307985&FORM=VIRE 

check out the video!

Alan

What and where (located) is a pop off valve.

Thank you

Pop valves release excess steam pressure and are always located on the top of the boiler.

Rusty

Thank you Rusty!

A feature that doesn't get much press is kinematic drawbar. I only have one engine (Legacy Reading T-1) that has it - and it is appreciated.

It's funny: oversize couplers and the 3rd rail don't really bother me, but seeing a huge gap between engine and tender on a $1,000 train is goofy.

Paul Kallus posted:

A feature that doesn't get much press is kinematic drawbar. I only have one engine (Legacy Reading T-1) that has it - and it is appreciated.

It's funny: oversize couplers and the 3rd rail don't really bother me, but seeing a huge gap between engine and tender on a $1,000 train is goofy.

Especially when the model is of a VERY large steam locomotive, which is obviously limited to minimum 072 curves, why have a tender-to-engine gap suitable for 027?