What is Super"O"and "oo" gauges ?

Super O is a "deluxe" track system marketed by Lionel in the postwar era with plastic ties and narrow middle rail. It is 36 inch diameter. It resembles Atlas' 21st century track system.

OO trains (1:76) are smaller than O (1:48) and S (1:64) but larger than HO (1:87). Lionel experimented with it before WWII, but they only offered a few cars and one locomotive (and complicated it by offering both 2 rail and 3 rail versions). It remains very popular in England. OO is produced primarily by Hornby.

Rubber roadbed is available for Lionel tubular.

Enlish "OO" is not the same gauge as American "OO". English "OO" is the same gauge as American "HO".

Lionel made four (or five) versions of the "OO" Hudson. The only cars were a boxcar, tank, hopper, and caboose. There were 2 rail and 3 rail models. In 3 rail, they made straights, curves, switches and a cross track. In 2 rail there were only straights and curves.

Here is a link:

http://americanoo.blogspot.com/2008/04/lionel-oo.html

Although Super O track was made during the late 1950's from about 57 to 59 there is a lot of it on the market right now. You could buy it separately or in sets. There were switches in Super O and if I am correct a 45 degree cross-over.

Not sure why but Lionel stopped making Super O after only a few years.

Most O gauge engines(due to size some can not take less then 054 or 072) will run on Super O track, 027 engines will also run on it.

Lee Fritz

You have track gauge and  you have Scale.   Scale is the ratio of the model to the prototype.   Track gauge is the width between the rails.   We would like them to synchronous but they are often not.

British OO is 1:76 scale models on 1:87 track (HO track gauge).   The models are still larger than HO.

in the US somewhere in our distant past, it was decided that track gauge is 1 1/4 inches.   this works out to be 5 ft gauge in O Scale - 1/4 inch to the foot or 1:48.  

all 3 rail scale and most 2 rail in the US runs on Oversized track.  

this confusion exists in all scales.

US made "00" track (3/4" wide) was made before WW2 by Lionel, Scale-Craft, Midlin & other smaller companies. GarGraves is currently making both 2 & 3-rail "00" track: the 37" straights are "flex" design, to be bent as needed; they also have pre-formed curves up to "072." By comparson, "HO" track is slightly smaller: 5/8" wide.

NOTE: Precision Scale Co. makes 2-rail "On3" ga. track which is also 3/4" wide, suitable for "00"; it comes in code 100 & looks very realistic. Their track comes in 36" "flex" sections & resembles "HO" track. Their web site is: www.precisionscaleco.com   

Will Super O track connect to the Atlas 21st century track?

The correct scale for O gauge track (1-1/4" wide) is 1:43.5, 7mm = 1 foot. In the US we use 1:48 scale which works out to 1/4" = 1 foot because the math is easier, even though it means our 'scale' models are slightly undersized.

HO is "Half O", which is 1:87 scale, 3.5mm = 1 foot. However when HO was introduced (in Germany by Marklin I believe), the existing electric motors were too small to fit in models of U.K. steam engines. So British manufacturers used the "HO" track gauge, but increased the scale to 4mm = 1 foot..."OO scale".

Just for clarification. British 'OO' does use the same gauge track as 'H0' (16.5mm), but it is to a scale of 1:76. (4mm to the foot.) Hornby and Bachmann are the largest producers of 'OO' products, although there are many other smaller manufacturers.

Lionel 'OO' used a scale of 1:76, but a more prototypically accurate track gauge of 19mm (¾ inch.).

Edit:  I actually wrote this reply some 2 hours before it appeared on the forum, but as I pressed 'send' my internet went down.  Sorry if this seems out of context after the intervening posts. 

quote:

NOTE: Precision Scale Co. makes 2-rail "On3" ga. track which is also 3/4" wide, suitable for "00"; it comes in code 100 & looks very realistic. Their track comes in 36" "flex" sections & resembles "HO" track.

Thanks for posting this information. Some time ago I purchased some of this track to display my "OO" trains. I ordered it through my local hobby shop, Mohawk Valley Railroad. I think this was before buying goods on the internet became so popular and common. I don't think Gargraves was making any "OO" track at the time.

I think you meant "correct gauge" when referring to track.

That is indeed puzzling.  Gauge is the distance between the rails, and, at least in O, gauge has very little to do with scale.

1/4" scale is standard for O gauge, and as noted, is incorrect.  So is 7 mm scale.  It turns out that 17/64 scale is pretty darn close to correct for O gauge - it makes the track gauge scale out to 4' 8.47" which is almost dead on 4' 8 1/2"

Lionel made at least one train set to 17/64 scale, to fit the O gauge track.

17/64" scale, O gauge:

you can adapt super 0 to Atlas track with Atlas' adapter pins, but your best bet is to go straight Atlas track. Unless you have a bunch of Super 0 track already....

Its true that the track gauge is not prototypical for 1/4 inch scale in "O" gauge. I recall their being a series of articles years ago (70's or 80's) about "Proto-48" which were "O" gauge trains made with both the track gauge and scale matching. I don't know whether anything ever became commerically available.

I guess that it is not surprizing that there is a web site devoted to Poto-48:

http://www.proto48.org/

I have used Atlas adapter pins and they bend too easy for me and they are out of round with tubular track. What I mean is that they stick out a little with tubular track unless cut down with a grinding tool.

Normally the only track I mix is Gargraves and Lionel 031 or 027 track.

Lee Fritz

I believe they made it until 1965-66.  Certainly they were marketing it that late.  The only curved track made was for 36" diameter, and the same is true for switches.  Cross-overs were 90 degree and 30-60 degrees which makes sense when you remember that super O required three tracks to do a 90 degree turn where O and O-27 only required two.

Super O had hollow outside rails and a blade center rail, while AtlasO is solid, plus the two systems use different shaped pieces to snap track together.  It is possible to use AtlasO with Super-O, but it does require some work.  A better choice for working with Super-O would probably be Gar-graves and Ross.  Just my opinion.

Just to (once again) clear up the "half-O" (HO) thing:

- it referred to the track -gauge-, not the -scale-; a HO loco will sit comfortably on a

running rail and the center rail of 3-rail O track (not old-style rounded rail type).

- O scale is 1:48; HO is 1:87, and 48+48 = 96, not 87.

- "O" scale is/was actually "0" (zero) scale, and H0 is actually "aitch-zero" scale.

But, 0 becomes O in speech, and there you are.

Someone said that "gauge and scale have little to do with each other", or some such.

Au contrare, mon frere. Even if the correlation is not precise, it is still a definite

correlation (not with pure toy trains, of course).

The biggest and silliest error that I can call to mind would have to be the British

OO scale using HO gauge track and pretending that it represents 4'8 1/2". I think that this is even worse than the US 1:48 using O-gauge (5') track. 

But with a rail down the d**n middle, it's potato, potahto.

you are new  here......no doubt about it.-jim