wheel gauge....not sure where to post this...

 The NMRA gauge is only for scale wheels on scale track. Tinplate wheels on tinplate track are not set to NMRA specs. A good tool to have is a caliper. If you can find a piece of rolling stock that does not give you problems, measure the gauge of that wheelset and regauge your other rolling stock to it. Some turnouts of some manufacturers do have issues with wheels and/or roller pickups shorting out on them, and may need to be modified to solve the problem.

Larry

Thanks.....Intersting, . But the NMRA gauge works and aligns on Gargraves just fine.

And the issue is the skewing of the trucks as they are being pushed.

So to my thinking, if the wheels are to close together as to allow the issue of the trucks to turn nearly an eighth of an inch, thus causing a short ....then adjusting the distance is the solution....

I guess this is another area MTH just says screw the consumer....

The wheels were pressed on...if there is no othrr form of adhesion used to hold them in place, then adjustment should be possible....

So has anybody had any success adjusting wheels?

First, find a car that tracks properly and measure the wheel gauge of that car. To pull the wheels out, you need a wheel puller to do the job properly. To press wheels on, you need a press with wheel cups. With a little imagination, you may be able to do both without the tools, but you may risk damaging the axles or wheels.

This is the first I am seeing that a tinplate track is actually made to NMRA specs.

Larry

It's not adjusting wheels, and it's not Gargraves track, but I've had good luck insulating the problem areas with good ol' black duct tape.

Just look for the spot weld where the short occurred, and cover with tape.

All the "diamonds" on my Lionel O27 switches are insulated from the pivot rivet to the point. Lay the tape on, smooth it down over the sides, and trim with an Xacto.

The nice thing about the tape is it's black and doesn't show if trimmed carefully. It's durable, sticks, and sticks better with time.

Matt:

I have done the same with RealTrax switches that arced with some equipment, Note Arc location and stick tape there. Only on the side, not the top/contact surface.

This does work and the tape will stay on for years. Duck Tape Rules !

"Talgo" type trucks, that is, trucks with the coupler mounted upon it, rather than

upon the car frame ("body"), do not like to be pushed. They twist. They -can- be pushed,

of course; it's just that they are more -prone- to shifting off the straight path than

frame-mounted trucks.

Having said that, I have an old 3-rail Gar Graves layout; I push cars all the time, all brands, all normal, typical OS3R Talgo-trucked cars. I do use MTH locos, but most of mine

are non-MTH and are typically steamers. I do not have any of the described problems, save

occasionally. This is not 2-rail O, not HO. Different beast, engineered differently. There

are things that one simply cannot do readily - but we seldom need to.

Your culprit, I suspect, and with respect, is your layout and track work. Most equipment

from most brands works very well most of the time if the track work (curve radii,

switch placement, etc.) is reasonably done. My layout is pretty funky, but does not

often cause the problems that you describe, even with my big steamers. 

Russell,

My problems were primarily with contact surfaces. It's those blasted wide pickup rollers on the newer locomotives that were catching the swing rail and the center rail at the same time. Even my old 4-4-2 was having problems.

So far, no issues with wear on the tape or gumming up the works.

The issue is not "track work" on my end.  The place where the Gargraves swutch is located is straight...no radii to create issues...it is simply the truck is able to twist within the rails...tin plate or not...if I can adjust the wheel spacing the problem will be solved.

Tape is a last resort option...

So where can I buy these wheel pullers and pressers?

Any information ?

Thanks for the interesting replies..

The original wheel puller is seen here, and can still be had. An updated wheel puller is seen here. A press system for riveting and installing wheels can be seen here.

Larry

Well the puller is possible,  the press,   not on a bet.....

I guess it is just too much to expect MTH to abide a standard

After all it is easier to just say "We dont do that"   and reference words like

Toy trains, tin plate, or  any other convenient reason, that to me is just an excuse...to avoid selling a better product.... 

I just want to run trains on some track...I expect them to operate with a degree of reliability...not short out my brick when I back up a few cars....because the wheels are too close and the trucks twist...

As long as we accept the lower standard, . Then we have no one to blame but our selves...and since putting tape on the track is a common solution, that means it is a 

Common problem...

Or maybe its just me..spoiled by HO. And DCC....

If you adjust the gauge of the wheels so they don't short, you may create a new problem.  The wheels may climb the frog of the switches and derail.  I have had this problem with post war cars climbing the frogs of 022 switches when the truck frame was bent and allowed the wheels to spread too far apart.  Easy fix was to bend the truck frame back to where it belonged.

The world of tinplate trains is unlike the world of scale trains. In the tinplate world there are no universal standards of wheel gauge, wheel thickness, flange depth, turnout construction, etc. Most manufactureres in the tinplate world design their products to operate properly with their own track, switches, transformers, command control, etc. There is no guarantee that one manufacturers trains will work properly on another manufacturers turnouts. Add to that the fact that pickup rollers are not uniform in width even with the same manufacturer and can short out on some turnouts. The center rail introduces design problems that no other scale has, and this causes the majority of derailing and shorting issues that plague turnouts. Until all '0' gauge manufacturers settle on design standards for all trains, track and turnouts especially, this gauge will be a 'fuss and fiddle' gauge. Ya gotta love it.

Larry

The issue is with a tank car...and the truck twists when being pushed.   

And while manufacturers build to suit themselves, they still should have a goal of 

Meeting consumer needs..I need a train that affords me enjoyable interseting reliable 

Operation.   If I want to be aggrevated or disappointed,  there are plenty of avenues available. and they do not cost nearly as much as this .....

  Have you checked the plastic guard rails? These guide the wheels through the switch. You might try moving them closer to the rail. Watch the truck very closely to see if this might alleviate the problem.

I know people like to think that because theirs is off by a certain amount in a certain way (i.e. too loose), that all of them are exactly the same.

Manufactured items vary within a tolerance set by the designer and/or manufacturer, based on purpose, cost, and selling price. Making things to higher tolerances costs more, and manufacturers have to take that into account so that they can keep the selling price at a point where they can sell enough units to make a profit.

You could buy 10 of those cars and they'd vary from too loose to just right to too tight, I'm sure. To get them all exactly the same would require much tighter tolerances. Of course that jacks up the cost to manufacture, and in turn the selling price. Jack that selling price up enough and you lose sales. Lose enough sales and you go belly-up. Go belly-up, and no more trains for anyone anywhere...

Matt:
         Any chance you could post a picture of what you did to the 027 switch? Thanks.

          Mel

Yes, and not only that, but higher tolerances in the case of toy trains actually works against you, in many cases it would cause more problems.  I'm into tinplate, where the issue is even more pronounced.  The new MTH reproductions actually seem to be made to tighter tolerances than the original vintage stuff, and has more problems out of the box as a result.  

Wheel gauge, coupler "play", truck alignment, car "wobble", and so on, there needs to be a certain amount of "free play" and excess unrestricted movement of parts in order to work smoothly, to not hang up. The tighter couplers and trucks on the new stock often causes derailments. I find myself tinkering with them to loosen them up more often than tightening tolerances.

You've got to be willing and able to use a pair of pliers, tweak, shim, problem solve, jerry-rig, and generally mcgiver these things into working the way you want them.  It's gotta be seen as part of the attraction, something to putter with and feel good when you get it running right.