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The only time that I have put on new tires was when the old one fell off, loosely speaking.  I have been taught, correctly, that once the tire gets stretched and comes loose, you might THINK you can put it back on but it's best to put a new one on.

Other than that, I'm wondering if there are other occassions to put a new one on.  Specifically, do they simply get old and lose their effectiveness????

That question hits home for me.  I have a tin-plate set that I bought new in 2013.  Keep in mind that I only have a Christmas layout so it has limited mileage on it.  In another thread I mentioned that I bought 2 extra cars but the engine's wheels usually just spin and the train doesn't move when I try to hook them up to the original 3.  It doesn't matter which 3 of the 5 cars that I use, that's all that the engine can handle without spinning its wheels.

I'm wondering if maybe the traction tires, being 5 years old last Christmas, need replaced.  How do I know?????  What signs are there that it's time to replace the tires???  Or don't they get old and need replacement for that reason?

As always, thanks - walt

Last edited by walt rapp
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I never try to put old tires back on.  After many attempts I came to realize that once they've peeled off, it's pretty rare they're not stretched enough to come right back off.  I'd rather spend the money for a new tire than the time putting an old one on again and again.

Five your old tires normally aren't deteriorated much as a rule, but it does depend on how they're stored.  If it's extreme climate, hot, dry, etc. they may go bad faster.

For your specific situation, just replace the tires once and see if it improves things.  If it does, then you needed them.  If it doesn't, it could be a problem with the wheels/frame and/or the track.

thanks John. Yes, like I said, once they stretch that's a sure-sign for me too.

The engine is stored in a spare bedroom so I don't think there's an issue there.

I noticed the last time that I looked that the tires seemed 'hard', almost plastic like.  I never examined them closely before but I was expecting a softer, more rubber like feel.

That's why I thought maybe over time, 5-years here, they "change" somehow and need replaced even though they still fit nice and tight on the wheels.

thanks - walt

WALT, I've learned the hard way to keep a close eye on traction tires. I have had damage on both a steam engine (PS2 board fail from wheel lock up) and a diesel (truck gear damage),  from them coming off and getting tangled in the wheels. I like to use a wooden tooth pick and try to drag the tire on the wheel. If they lift easily or slip like their stretched (especially if the engine is used in a MU lash up) I replace them. Visually I will inspect for orange peel and dry rot.

I replace a traction tire only after it has broken and don't replace the tire on the opposite side of the axle until it breaks...

Traction tires seem to last well on my mostly MTH locomotives. One factor in favor of that is that my curves are O-54 and O-72. The larger the track diameter, the smaller the wheel slippage, which helps to prolong traction tire life. Another factor is that my trackage is Atlas O on which the flat-topped rail results in less contact pressure than tubular rail. I also run short trains that require less tractive force than long ones.

MELGAR

thank you all - the MOST important thing that I gleaned from reading them all is that a 5-year old tire is not necessarily in need of replacement just because it's 5 years old.

The tires are not stretched, not chipped, etc.  I'm just trying to figure out if age COULD HAVE BEEN a reason that this engine can't pull more than the 3 cars that came with it.  Rule out age.

As always, thanks - walt

I normally just wait till the tires fall off. Then I change them. Yesterday I noticed that one of the tires on my MTH Premier GS4 Northern just popped off and unrolled itself while the locomotive was sitting in the passenger terminal on my layout. I figured I would just change both, since they looked original (locomotives was built in 1999). Turns out the previous owner changed the tires at some point and super glued them on. Don't do that. Chipping super glue off a wheel with a tiny screwdriver gets really old, really fast.

walt rapp posted:

The tires are not stretched, not chipped, etc.  I'm just trying to figure out if age COULD HAVE BEEN a reason that this engine can't pull more than the 3 cars that came with it.  Rule out age.

As always, thanks - walt

The next thing to investigate is, how well do the cars roll? Is there excess drag causing the engine to slip?

The extra rollers and axle wipers on passenger cars can really increase drag exponentially.

I've had O scale passenger cars that I had to pry back the axle wipers a bit to relieve the tension. This made a big difference. Of course lubing axles rollers and such all helps if you haven't already.

Tin plate is a bit different but with my oguage stuff I try to lube/ tweak each passenger car so when I give it a shove it rolls freely for a reasonable distance.

Last edited by RickO

Thanks for those comments Ricko.  In response I'll say that I faithfully oiled all of the wheels/axles as directed in the instructions.  I agree that these tin-plate cars don't roll anywhere near as well as my non-tin plate rolling stock does.  They don't drag but they aren't quite as free wheeling.

on the train that I am questioning, there are no lighted cars so not wipes.

just frustrating, that's where I"m at.  Don't want to accept the situation but might be forced into a reality check!

- walt

walt rapp posted:

The only time that I have put on new tires was when the old one fell off, loosely speaking.  I have been taught, correctly, that once the tire gets stretched and comes loose, you might THINK you can put it back on but it's best to put a new one on.

Other than that, I'm wondering if there are other occassions to put a new one on.  Specifically, do they simply get old and lose their effectiveness????

That question hits home for me.  I have a tin-plate set that I bought new in 2013.  Keep in mind that I only have a Christmas layout so it has limited mileage on it.  In another thread I mentioned that I bought 2 extra cars but the engine's wheels usually just spin and the train doesn't move when I try to hook them up to the original 3.  It doesn't matter which 3 of the 5 cars that I use, that's all that the engine can handle without spinning its wheels.

I'm wondering if maybe the traction tires, being 5 years old last Christmas, need replaced.  How do I know?????  What signs are there that it's time to replace the tires???  Or don't they get old and need replacement for that reason?

As always, thanks - walt

Walt, does the rubber tire actually touch the rail head? If it is too thin in thickness you won't get any benefit. Try two, one on top of the other.

Last edited by BobbyD

Walt, I have 3 Weaver locos from early 90's (all now PS2) that still have their original tires.  I will admit that the 0-6-0's tires seem to have worn down to below the steel, as they are starting to slip.  But they're narrow and hard to find replacement.

Otherwise, I only replace a tire when it fails.

BobbyD posted:
walt rapp posted:

The only time that I have put on new tires was when the old one fell off, loosely speaking.  I have been taught, correctly, that once the tire gets stretched and comes loose, you might THINK you can put it back on but it's best to put a new one on.

Other than that, I'm wondering if there are other occassions to put a new one on.  Specifically, do they simply get old and lose their effectiveness????

That question hits home for me.  I have a tin-plate set that I bought new in 2013.  Keep in mind that I only have a Christmas layout so it has limited mileage on it.  In another thread I mentioned that I bought 2 extra cars but the engine's wheels usually just spin and the train doesn't move when I try to hook them up to the original 3.  It doesn't matter which 3 of the 5 cars that I use, that's all that the engine can handle without spinning its wheels.

I'm wondering if maybe the traction tires, being 5 years old last Christmas, need replaced.  How do I know?????  What signs are there that it's time to replace the tires???  Or don't they get old and need replacement for that reason?

As always, thanks - walt

Walt, does the rubber tire actually touch the rail head? If it is too thin in thickness you won't get any benefit. Try two, one on top of the other.

that's a suggestion that I never heard before!!! Thanks.  Not sure how to check that but I'll try to find a way.  Any suggestions.  I will try and consider anything at this point.

thanks - walt

scott.smith posted:

Here's a thread about this:

https://ogrforum.com/...t-if-the-wheels-slip

Scott Smith

Scott,

I remember your thread well since I used your advice on my BABY BLUE COMET set, which has 4 passenger cars.  The set that I am referring to here is what I call the Christmas Train set.  It is a freight set.  I'm not sure right now (stuff is in storage at the moment) that these cars have shoes.

Since I followed your suggestion on the passenger cars I can't imagine why I would not have done the same to the freight cars - unless they don't have shoes.  I just right now looked at some pictures of the set that I took back then.  None are from the bottom but I did notice that the couplers look like the have the uncoupling pieces in place so that would mean they have shoes.

I can't wait to check and see 1) if they have shoes, and 2) did I tie them up!!!

thanks for the reminder

- walt

I'm running out of things to try - only one suggestion left - the one about pressing down on the engine to see if it's a matter of the engine being too light.

SCOTT: picture show that I DID remember to tie up the pickup shoes on the cars:

Bottom of truck for cars_3

BOBBYD: I very carefully and closely examined how the engine contacts the rails and it's clear the BOTH traction tires and in clear contact with the rails.

Where am I now:

As always, thanks for chiming in to help out

- walt

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One question that I have, which no one has really touched on, is about finding the CORRECT tire.  Often there are literally dozens of varieties ...   I guess one could go by your loco's parts diagram, but often they are not available, so it ends up being an "eyeball-guesstimation" match-up process between you and the guy you are buying parts from.   Any suggestions here?

What is the motor/gear train layout on the locomotive in question? Is it a motor with a worm shaft connected to one set of wheels where the side rods transmit power (a la a Postwar 736) or a spur gear drive train (a la a 2046 Hudson)? Does the locomotive have an open frame motor or a can motor? All of these things will have an impact on how much this locomotive can pull.

 

Lou1985 posted:

What is the motor/gear train layout on the locomotive in question? Is it a motor with a worm shaft connected to one set of wheels where the side rods transmit power (a la a Postwar 736) or a spur gear drive train (a la a 2046 Hudson)? Does the locomotive have an open frame motor or a can motor? All of these things will have an impact on how much this locomotive can pull.

 

LOU: I can't answer most of what you ask.  It's a standard MTH PS3 setup.  I uses a single can motor and that motor is directly connected to one of the axles.

thanks - walt

walt rapp posted:
Lou1985 posted:

What is the motor/gear train layout on the locomotive in question? Is it a motor with a worm shaft connected to one set of wheels where the side rods transmit power (a la a Postwar 736) or a spur gear drive train (a la a 2046 Hudson)? Does the locomotive have an open frame motor or a can motor? All of these things will have an impact on how much this locomotive can pull.

 

LOU: I can't answer most of what you ask.  It's a standard MTH PS3 setup.  I uses a single can motor and that motor is directly connected to one of the axles.

thanks - walt

Looks like a small can motor with flywheel mounted above a spur gear train. Should be enough to pull 5 cars. The locomotive may just be too light. I'd see if it's possible to add a little weight (without overloading the motor) and see if that helps. 

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