When I Forgot About an F3 Preorder and Now Have a Redundant Project on the Workbench - "My Solution"

I would update the A unit, that way you have a full power AA set, **** the grades(torpedoes)! Full speed ahead! I would think with 4 motors you could pull what ever you wanted up your grade. Reminds me of when I went to upgrade my Williams SD90, I bought the cruise commander and the EMD sound commander. When the order came in I opened the box to do the upgrade and found a Cruise commander/sound commander taped to the box! Doh! It's ok, upgrades never go to waste, some project always shows up that can use them.

@Mark Boyce posted:

I have an MTH Premier F3 AA set in Western Maryland Fireball scheme, one engine powered and the other non-powered.  It is a ProtoSound (PS1) which runs well, but I have wanted to upgrade to run command with my DCS remotes.  With no knowledge of any PS3 upgrade kits becoming available in the near future, I thought of upgrading it with ERR and run it in TMCC mode.  Last week, I saw Mike Reagan’s post that some PS3 upgrade kits were available, so I ordered one immediately.                                                                                                         

Sure wish I had your good luck Mark.

My fairly new ps3 Railking UP Alco AAs did a fast stop  on the rails after about an hour of run time.  Opened  it up and powered up conventional about 10 or 12 volts...... no response but a little puff of smoke near the little wound wire thingy. 

Mark, I ordered 2 PS3 steam upgrades just prior to MTH's closing announcement. I have a Shay I wanted to upgrade and thought about another steamer. Now that I have the 4 and 6 wheel Brass Weaver Milwaukee Road Hiawatha Atlantics, maybe those are better choices. Let me know how your upgrade goes. I understand I may need to create wiring harnesses.

Would you take a PS2 board out of an MTH RK GG1 and put it into a scale Weaver Brass GG1? I can't imagine the RK is worth more than the board. 

Thank you for commenting , Darrell, Dallas, Jeff!

Darrell, your idea probably makes the most sense.  Four motors will pull anything up the hills.  The Western Maryland engines are my favorites, and I have been happy letting the B&O mostly serve as a shelf queen.  Also, upgrading the B&O with one upgrade kit means gutting the motors out of one A unit or just running an AB arrangement.  I don’t think I want to buy another upgrade kit any time soon.

More replies to come, but I am being summoned for yet another project at Ma-in-law’s!  🙄 😆

Darrell, you are right that extra parts can always come in handy whether upgrades like yours or any other item.

Dallas, Oh no!  A smoked component is always bad.  It would be nice if it is still under warranty, I hope!

Jeff, the kits are supposed to give you long enough wires that you can cut them shorter to not have a rats nest to stuff in.  I have not done a steam one, but I would assume they give you what you need to connect to the 'wireless' drawbar.  They must have the kit set up to connect to the lights, smoke unit, etc. in the engine.

I have not moved existing electronics from one engine to another.  If you can fit everything in the Weaver GG1 then it should work out.  You have to drill mounting holes in the MTH engines when you install upgrade kits, so that part is no different than putting a PS2 in a Williams.  You may need longer/shorter wires and have to drill out holes for lights as well.

@Mark Boyce posted:

That scares me just looking at it!

@PRRMP54 posted:

That scares me just looking at it!

😱  😄  Good point, Dave!  Yes, the number of wires needed to go to all the lights, motors, couplers, smoke unit, and I probably missed something can be intimidating!  Wire management is the key.  

I realized I needed to update this topic.  I didn't intend to, but ended up getting into a discussion about my decision on my Blackwater Canyon Line layout design and build topic.  As a brief here, I decided to upgrade the MTH Premier Western Maryland F3 to PS3 with the intent of it being the rear unit of an AA lashup once the preordered F3 arrives.  The non-powered F3 gave up some donor parts, but will still look good.  I was asked by Andy @Steamfan77 to make a video describing the PS3 upgrade after I was almost done.  My description of what I did is a bit haphazard, so travel at your own risk. 

So the only thing to do is fasten the marker lights into the holes in the shell, and put the shell back on.  Here is an excerpt from an email with another forum member about the only feature that doesn't work right, the front marker lights that light in reverse, but not forward.  "I didn’t make any headway on my marker lights, but got thinking since I am going to be running it as the second A unit, it will always be running in reverse and the way it is now, they will always be lit as the train goes forward.  So, do I put the red ones in, run green, or disconnect them?"

Hi Mark,

Thanks for posting your video.  I've watched it twice. It gives me the encouragement I need to some day perform a similar upgrade on a Weaver GP38...if possible. Won't be any time soon but I have long wanted tackle it.

As for the Pre-orders, I had (2) RS11s on pre-order with PDT and then came within a hair's breadth of re-ordering my pre-order! Talk about redundancy!!!   I went through old emails and was able to avert that disaster.

In terms of funding, however, I had (4) preordered locos show up in the same month. That was a bit to choke on. I'm done with locos for this year, and maybe next! . So far as I know, (or remember...LOL)  I presently have just one outstanding loco on preorder, and of course, it's the one I wanted the most!

Bob

Mark, one thing to consider for your next PS/3 diesel upgrade.  Start by removing all the wiring you won't use for that project, it makes the wire management considerably easier.

Thank you, Bob, John!

Bob, I'm glad the video helped.  That would have made for a problem if you preordered the same thing again!  My previous preorders were made 6 months apart, but they arrived the same week.

John, you are right, removing wire I don't need right away would make it easier.  I was afraid I would cut one off, then realize I needed one after all.  So, once I had everything connected, then I cut the unused ones off.  If I don't wait another 5 years before upgrades, maybe I will be more confident because I am more familiar.

Mark, I don't cut off the extra wires, I remove then from the connector.  That way I have spare wires with those tiny 1mm contacts crimped on them for future use.   For the ones that terminate in a big splice for one lead, then I free them and insulate the cut end of the remaining wire harness.

I got it now John.  I recall way back at work we had the appropriate tool for the the particular pins we used.  We only had a couple.  Do you use a special tool designed for removal on this particular size and shape, or does a tiny screwdriver work?  That is a question I should have asked before, but I didn’t.  I was afraid of butchering the connector, so I cut them off. ☹️

@Mark Boyce posted:

I got it now John.  I recall way back at work we had the appropriate tool for the the particular pins we used.  We only had a couple.  Do you use a special tool designed for removal on this particular size and shape, or does a tiny screwdriver work?  That is a question I should have asked before, but I didn’t.  I was afraid of butchering the connector, so I cut them off. ☹️

Mark- I use a small jewelers screwdriver. I lift the plastic tab that holds the pin in place and gently pull the wire out. Takes a little juggling to get everything in the right spot but it works.

Bob

Not that I've ever accidentally bought a duplicate item or forgotten about a preorder (cough, cough), but if you're concerned about funds you could probably offer the extra copy for sale here for 10-15% off of the original price, sell it quickly, and take a small haircut.  IMO, much better to eat $50 than to have a redundant item that you don't want.

Other options include explaining your situation to the dealer - if it's a desirable item, he might not mind keeping it and selling it to another customer who didn't get their order in on time.  Or, return it for a credit toward a future purchase - even if you pay a restocking fee, it's much cheaper than buying an unwanted item.  Yet one more option would be to use the redundant engines as a blank canvas for a fantasy paint scheme.

Mlllard4468,

Thanks for the idea about selling here. I did, in fact, want all the locos I got. The comedy act was almost doing one of my pre-orders twice. I just didn't think they would show back-to-back like they did. I haven't tried t sell anything here, but do have some things I should post some day.

@RSJB18 posted:

Mark- I use a small jewelers screwdriver. I lift the plastic tab that holds the pin in place and gently pull the wire out. Takes a little juggling to get everything in the right spot but it works.

Bob

Bob, yes that is what I was thinking of.  The ones I worked with years ago were much bigger than these, so I was worried the plastic tab or the pin wouldn’t hold up to even my gentle pull.

I got everything together and put the shell on.  The headlight, cab light, and number board lights looked too bright with the shell on.  I think I’ll leave it alone and see how they compare to the new F3 when it arrives.

Yesterday I finished a PS3 upgrade on a 1995 Premier ProtoSound Western Maryland F3.  The innards aren't pretty, as we already discussed, but it works!    My only other upgrade was a BL2 that I did 5 years ago.  I have a lot of trouble handling small parts and wiring.  Next time, I will follow some advice from Bob and John.  The only other upgrade is I added a much better looking crew of two to replace the original wimpy looking engineer.

Nice

@Mark Boyce posted:

Yesterday I finished a PS3 upgrade on a 1995 Premier ProtoSound Western Maryland F3.  The innards aren't pretty, as we already discussed, but it works!    My only other upgrade was a BL2 that I did 5 years ago.  I have a lot of trouble handling small parts and wiring.  Next time, I will follow some advice from Bob and John.  The only other upgrade is I added a much better looking crew of two to replace the original wimpy looking engineer.

Mark ,  WHY........IN  THE  WORLD .....can't we just accept the way the manufactureres have done things with their products since we feel they are great  ( at least to get us to buy them ) the way they build them.

Sometimes I spend way too much time trying to change these little irksome things just to make them fit my view of how they should be.      BOY IT'S  FUN THOUGH

@Dallas Joseph posted:

Mark ,  WHY........IN  THE  WORLD .....can't we just accept the way the manufacturers have done things with their products since we feel they are great ( at least to get us to buy them ) the way they build them.

Sometimes I spend way too much time trying to change these little irksome things just to make them fit my view of how they should be.      BOY IT'S  FUN THOUGH

Dallas, I don't know why.  It must be some sort of mental malady is all I can figure!!!   

I never really liked electronics as a career.  In fact there were times I tried to change until I realized that must be where God wanted me.  Now that I have been retired for a while I will mess around with it a little at home. 

Thank you, @Darrell

@Dallas Joseph  @Mark Boyce    Mark one of these days I am going to tackle PS3 upgrades.

The "why" comments are great. Of course the reason to change is because the electronics are now 20 plus years old and do not function or do not have the capabilities the manufacturers are now putting into them.

The other reason to "improve" a manufacturer's build is to get rid of the "mass" market attributes, we may not care for. Case in point - way before my time - K-Line sold select engines (F series) with two pilots, one to accommodate a coupler at its nose and a second with a closed pilot. The modeler could choose which front end he/she preferred. Personally the Grand Canyon sized hole in the pilot of F3s and the coupler sticking way into the next block bothers my sense of esthetics. I wish I had that choice with my new MTH engines. Long story, I found a K-Line Milwaukee Road F7 set (no boxes) at auction and am awaiting delivery. Of course I already have nearly the same ABA set but the earlier version with the Grand Canyon. So circling back to the post, I do have a redundant project (swapping out the electronics) but knew my preorder was already delivered.      

Jeff, I thought there would be others in similar situations, either planned redundant projects, or absent-minded ones like mine!  Some things on a model are such that I can put up with, like the marker light situation.  Other things are so glaring, they just bug you all the time like couplers on the pilot.  Thank you for the comments.

@endless tracks I have sold and bought engines, cars, buildings, bridges from forum members on the Buy, Sell, Trade page.  I can only think of one bad experience, and that guy isn't on the forum anymore. 

Mark, thank you for the video, it was outstanding. I didn't know you were most of the way through the process. I hope it didn't cause too much trouble . I thoroughly enjoyed your presentation.

Andy

Mark

When good money is "lost" by redundancy because of a faulty memory, the product is still available for creative solutions such as yours.

I did the same thing once -- I failed to check my existing inventory before ordering a Rock Island loco. Fortunately, it wasn't an expensive duplicate purchase, but a lesson learned.

Mike Mottler    LCCA 12394

When I unpacked from my move five years ago, I found at least three duplicate engines!  OOPS!

@Steamfan77 Andy, it wasn’t any problem at all!  It was probably a good exercise for me. 😊

Mike, that is a very good way of looking at it!  It seems all of us who have been around a while have had a similar experience.

John, yours is an excellent case in point for the last comment.  😄. I certainly have purchased duplicate freight cars.