"NEW" Lionel Products, look at these prices..........

@Magicland posted:

That's not correct. There are a lot of things that I can afford, and that I want, but I don't purchase them because I feel they're priced too high. If enough people do that, the company goes out of business. Not everyone buys everything that they want and can afford. If the perceived value isn't there, it's a problem.

No, it’s not a problem. If you can afford a train at the asking price but you don’t buy it, it’s because you don’t want the train. In fact, whether you realize it or not, that is exactly what you said.  
if you don’t want it, fine. But don’t stand on a soap box pointing a finger at Lionel.

@Oscale_Trains_Lover_ posted:

Sorry I care about other people in the hobby who aren't as fortunate as myself?

LoL!!! Well if you care that much about the poor and downtrodden of the hobby then buy the trains for them!  
So to recap, you own a Jaguar, you brag that you can afford anything in the catalog. Yet you complain about Lionel’s prices. Oh, the best part… you did it out of a sense Noblesse Oblige for the poor and unfortunate in the hobby.

I think that with your post the whole “Lionel Price” debate has jumped the shark to absurdity. Very funny!

@Madockawando posted:

LoL!!! Well if you care that much about the poor and downtrodden of the hobby then buy the trains for them!  

Apologies if it came off in a braggadocios manner, I had no intention of doing so.

But since you mock me on a public forum: I do and have donated starter sets to families and charities. I genuinely feel sorry for you since you think that someone can't care/think about others.

Bryce

@Oscale_Trains_Lover_ posted:

I do and have donated starter sets to families and charities. I genuinely feel sorry for you since you think that someone can't care/think about others.

Bryce

Many people here have donated trains to charity but that is not what we are talking about.  You are a wealthy person, own a jaguar, can afford anything in the catalog, and yet complaining about the high price of brand new Lionel trains, a luxury item.

You have no inside data from Lionel on how they determined their prices but you are certain they are wrong. You know full well your complaints won't change any prices and yet you persist. 

It's very simple, if you want it and you can afford it, buy it. If you don't like the price, then don't buy it. But please, stop contributing the the negativity and lets get back to enjoying trains instead of complaining.

@Madockawando posted:

Many people here have donated trains to charity but that is not what we are talking about. 

You have no inside data from Lionel on how they determined their prices but you are certain they are wrong. You know full well your complaints won't change any prices and yet you persist.

It's very simple, if you want it and you can afford it, buy it. If you don't like the price, then don't buy it. But please, stop contributing the negativity and lets get back to enjoying trains instead of complaining.

Respectfully, you brought it up with your facetious remark:

@Madockawando posted:

LoL!!! Well if you care that much about the poor and downtrodden of the hobby then buy the trains for them!  
Oh, the best part… you did it out of a sense Noblesse Oblige for the poor and unfortunate in the hobby.

I think that with your post the whole “Lionel Price” debate has jumped the shark to absurdity. Very funny!

Correct, Lionel will not provide any inside data. I am questioning their msrp for products I am not saying "oh, well Lionel is wrong, blah, blah, blah."  I do have faith that Lionel is a company that does monitor the forums and hopefully they will address the collective with a statement/explanation on their pricing guide.


Bryce

@Oscale_Trains_Lover_ posted:

Respectfully, you brought it up with your facetious remark:

Correct, Lionel will not provide any inside data. I am questioning their msrp for products I am not saying "oh, well Lionel is wrong, blah, blah, blah."  I do have faith that Lionel is a company that does monitor the forums and hopefully they will address the collective with a statement/explanation on their pricing guide.


Bryce

You didn't start stat a thread about donating trains to the poor. You started a thread complaining about Lionel's prices while at the same time bragging about how wealthy you are and how you can "Afford anything you want." That smacks of grandstanding.  Lionel does not owe you or anyone else a detailed explanation of the analysis that went into determining their prices. That's their issue to address becasue they can see the big picture than none us us have access to.

Our part in this is to ask:

- Which trains do I like in this catalog?

- Can I afford to budget for the trains I like?

- If so, where do I place my pre-order?

If you can't find a any trains you like, or you can't afford them or your just mad at Lionel and want to stick it to the man... Okay, don't buy any trains.  But let the rest of us who are enjoying this hobby and are excited by this catalog do so in peace with out being inundated with pointless negativity.

@Oscale_Trains_Lover_ posted:

I believe you are talking about the Chinese Yuan (Japan uses the Yen). 20 years ago, 1 USD was 8.2748 Yuan (Jan 2001). Today it is 1USD to 6.37284 Yuan. USDCNY 6.3525 ▲ +0.07% (tradingview.com)

Yuan indeed.  And don’t forget internally China uses a different currency than it does externally.  They are sometimes both referred to a yuan, but they are different.  There is CNY and CNH and they don’t track the dollar at the same rate.

@rplst8 posted:

Yuan indeed.  And don’t forget internally China uses a different currency than it does externally.  They are sometimes both referred to a yuan, but they are different.  There is CNY and CNH and they don’t track the dollar at the same rate.

I used their internal currency under the assumption that all payment/business deals are done internally.

@Oscale_Trains_Lover_ posted:

I used their internal currency under the assumption that all payment/business deals are done internally.

No worries, I wasn’t trying to say yo were wrong, just that China uses their dual currency system to manipulate prices.

@rplst8 posted:

No worries, I wasn’t trying to say yo were wrong, just that China uses their dual currency system to manipulate prices.

That didn't even cross my mind, I assumed we were on the same page (which we are)

@Madockawando posted:

No, it’s not a problem. If you can afford a train at the asking price but you don’t buy it, it’s because you don’t want the train. In fact, whether you realize it or not, that is exactly what you said.  
if you don’t want it, fine. But don’t stand on a soap box pointing a finger at Lionel.

Saying that whether someone buys something or not boils down to “want” (or not) is overly simplistic.  It often comes down to a value proposition.  Do I want some of the rolling stock that Lionel has offered in the last few catalogs? Absolutely.  Can I afford them? Again, yes.  Will I pay for cars that might have knuckle couplers that won’t work at that price or preorder something knowing the colors might be pastels reminiscent of the girls set when what is understood as a reasonably accurate representation of the prototype? Heck no.

You make it sound like that these being luxury items, how can one “complain.”  The fact that these are luxury items and prices as such makes this an even worse problem for Lionel.  

Someone mentioned the Americana brand that comes with Lionel, and they are right. Prices and the lack of mid priced product, leaves a huge hole in the market. With menards producing engines, maybe we’ll see a Menards Train House style merger. It would at least provide some competition for Lionel, even if it’s from the low to mid end.

@rplst8 posted:

Saying that whether someone buys something or not boils down to “want” (or not) is overly simplistic.  It often comes down to a value proposition.  Do I want some of the rolling stock that Lionel has offered in the last few catalogs? Absolutely.  Can I afford them? Again, yes.  Will I pay for cars that might have knuckle couplers that won’t work at that price or preorder something knowing the colors might be pastels reminiscent of the girls set when what is understood as a reasonably accurate representation of the prototype? Heck no.

You make it sound like that these being luxury items, how can one “complain.”  The fact that these are luxury items and prices as such makes this an even worse problem for Lionel.  

There are some people who'll buy anything with "Lionel" stamped on the side, a situation hardly unique to model railroading ("Harley Davidson" comes to mind, but there are certainly others). There are many trains that I "want", but I'll wait for an estate sale and purchase them at the price someone told their wife they paid for them. Or build them myself...

@rplst8 posted:

Saying that whether someone buys something or not boils down to “want” (or not) is overly simplistic.  It often comes down to a value proposition.  Do I want some of the rolling stock that Lionel has offered in the last few catalogs? Absolutely.  Can I afford them? Again, yes.  Will I pay for cars that might have knuckle couplers that won’t work at that price or preorder something knowing the colors might be pastels reminiscent of the girls set when what is understood as a reasonably accurate representation of the prototype? Heck no.

You make it sound like that these being luxury items, how can one “complain.”  The fact that these are luxury items and prices as such makes this an even worse problem for Lionel.  

This isn’t a problem for Lionel. This is a problem for people who have to nitpick about prices with every catalog. Lionel doing fine, the catalog has some really nice stuff in it and we should be glad the hobby is doing well.

OK....I am tired of this crap!  Topic closed.  Don't start a new one whining about prices.  Either contact Lionel directly and badger them (instead of creating negative work for us trying to keep up with the alerts) or just don't buy product that you think is too expensive.