York 4/2014 Registrations Released

That's 12,000 registered but how many actually attended? We never know.

I too thought it was a little light.  Wonder if it had anything to do with not as many vendors in the dealer halls? Seemed like more room to walk around.

It did seem that Friday morning was busy, but by noon it was pretty empty

Thanks for posting the info.

Folks will just need to get used to the fact that the numbers will invariably continue to taper off a bit due to factors that have little or nothing at all to do with the meet itself.  In large part, it's a matter of (as I have noted many times in recent years) an aging demographic, retirement, downsizing/relocation, health-related issues, general economic conditions (price of gas, for example), or even the possibility that many already have all the trains they desire or have disposed of all they felt they no longer needed. 

And, yes, we may know the total number registered, but we have no way of knowing the number who actually attended.  Even the TCA-ED cannot provide that information.

Trust me, though, it's not just toy train clubs that are being similarly affected.

I think when it dips below 10,000 it is going to be a real psychological blow. While the members halls may stay as is the dealers will have to look at ROI for attending the show.

The "silver lining" to this cloud might be that maybe the hotels in York will start noticing and bring their rates back down to what more people are willing to pay.  Yes, I know about supply and demand, but I think that the York hotel rates are having an adverse affect on attendance.  I've read that some charge about double their normal room rates.  They may be killing the goose that laid the golden egg.

I would hope so but interestingly many hotels for the October meet already show fully booked.  Of course rooms may be being held in reserve but they're showing full and ones that show rooms have non-refundable polices.  I've never seen so many non-refundable rooms.  I got shut out of the Holidome by a few hours apparently. Learned my lesson.  I'm going to book for April 2015 the day they open up reservations (that's usually 330 days or so in advance.)  

Yup!  But ya gotta go with what ya got!

You have to wonder though with pictures making the rounds, will that cause a bump?

The numbers play out as around an 8% decrease over 4 years. Given all the factors outlined by others, excluding what is most likely the 800 pound gorilla (the internet), seems like York is doing better than many other major meets in other hobbies.

The demographics on web users shows an explosion of web users in their "Golden Years" over the decade, giving grandpa a whole new way to find those trains he's been looking for. Pew research shows that in 2004 less than 14% of Americans over 65 were online, in 2014 that number as grown to 59% (a 45% increase), with 67% reporting going online everyday. By contrast in 2004 more than 50% of all Americans over 18 where online, today that number has grown to 86% (a 36% increase).

Re: High hotel rates.

Anyone on board here ever try Air B&B?

Whole new way to travel.  Every trip is unique!  Very inexpensive.  Can be a lot of fun.

Be a host a visitor.  We did it and had a great time.

AirBnB sounds like a great idea and it's booming but like everything new and unregulated there are issues and a seemy underbelly.

NY Attorney General Investigates AirBnB

AirBnB: Lucative but often illegal

I belong to the National Stereoscopic Association, a group of people interested in 3-D photography, both in terms of collecting and shooting. Our yearly convention, held at various places in the U.S. for 4 days, drew over 800 people (about 25% of the membership) 20 years ago. Now it's down to about 200. It included a large show, where items were for sale. This was a big reason why I, and others, attended.

EBay, as well as the approximate $1,000. travel, registration, food, and hotel costs, had me no longer going as of 10 years ago. Thanks to 5 internet forums, I now keep in touch with friends I made at the conventions.

the real reason attendence was down, members like myself dropping out due to the huge tca  dues increase. -jim

Yeah, that $15 a year increase is a real killer in what has long been known as a poor man's hobby.  

Strikes me that if $15 a year makes a difference to attend what isn't an inexpensive meet (if you buy anything) then you weren't long for York anyway.  I can't believe that swayed approximately 1000 attendees. 

Your right Chris, That's a bad excuse $15. I spend $2,000. for hotel, food and gas before I buy anything, & I can't wait till October. If you can't afford $15. then you can't afford trains.

You can be quite sure it didn't.  More likely it is largely the result of natural, but unfortunate, attrition more than anything else.

The dues increase works out to be a little over 4 cents a day.......if you look in your couch you can probably find enough. Might be in the wrong hobby if that is a deal breaker.

Rich

Attendance numbers may be down because of such a bad winter, and it's toll on people's budgets. As to the expense of going to York, there've been years when all I did was walk around with my hands in my empty pockets but I still had a great time. I always go because it's fun!

I have stayed in private homes, Bed and Breakfasts, "Zimmer frei", "chambres", in

Europe, and one plantation house that was reported to be the most haunted house in America,  but I'd be leery of something like AirBnB.  I have seen local trains shows

disappear...when I got into it, there were often two or even three choices to hit on

a weekend day...no more, and the same has happened to vintage car shows, although

I think, possibly due to the auctions both vacuuming up old cars and driving up prices. 

There have been a few times when all we could muster was the gas and lodging but we still had the greatest time wandering around seeing all the things I didn't know I needed.  And I always meet new and interesting people.  My wife enjoys it as much as me so I am very luck to have a "companion" along.

My point is, IMO, that York is still a great place to go and have fun even if you don't buy a single thing.

Ed

If a dues increase becoming a "deal-breaker" and contented attendees walking around with hands in empty pockets became the norm, shouldn't we be wondering about how the vendors would feel? The Meet is not a convention; it is a place for buying and selling, all of which is enriched by the genuine camaraderie. Did somebody say there were empty tables in the Orange Hall? One must wonder about all the possible reasons why, no? Does anybody have an accurate understanding of what s happening? Perhaps, it is a fair idea to try to see from all angles?

And something is happening; changing, however subtly.

FrankM

Another consideration might be the timing of the show.

Wasn't the date rather late this year?

Maybe more folks than usual had conflicts.

Regardless, 12,000 registrations is still a large number.

I had a great time at the show, and enjoyed the ability to get around without running into endless congestion.

I recently renewed my TCA membership but have no interest nor capability to attend York related to the age and health issues Allan noted above. Distant driving is a no,no these days.

If my health allowed hitting the road I would much prefer to visit the NJ Hi-Railers operation in Patterson.....Jersey territory I am very familiar with.

Change is inevitable; resistance is futile. 

Wihout acquiring real meaningful information from those not attending, this all reduces to speculation. 

This was my first April meet in several years.  Just dumb luck I had no conflicts with my son's baseball and concert schedules.  Plus being later in the year kids had religious milestones to prepare for which could have caused parents/grandparents to miss this year's meet.  An 8% drop in 4 yrs isn't that bad to me.

I do think pics can only help boost attendance. But what do I know? 

--Greg

"I do think pics can only help boost attendance. But what do I know?" -Greg Houser

I don't think there is any question about it, Greg.  There seems to be some sentiment about that on this Forum already.

BTW, it's great to have a couple of guys committed to photography - they took great pix for this Forum.  Merci.

I didn't attend beacuse I had a minor medical procedure schedule for Thursday and could'nt make the drive up on Friday.  I'll renew my membership and plan to go in October.

I've been in model airplanes for over 15 years, and dues increases of *ANY* amount are deal breakers to many. The old "It's only XX cents a day" really only incenses them more.

It's amazing how people will spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on a single plane or train, many times over, but throw a hissy fit when it comes to spending $60 a year to ensure that they have a place to fly/run them.

My observation is that the dealers still seem to do OK.  The booths for Just Trains, Charles Ro, Trainworld, Sidetrack, Vince's, etc. were all very busy when I was there.  Usually had several people waiting for help or to pay.

Hopefully it will be many years before the psychological barrier of 10,000 is crossed.

I'm sure the eastern division will figure out what to do as the attendance dips. Just go and have a great time. Who cares if 12,500 come or 12,900 come to York. It seemed pretty crowded to me this April.

According to Al Gore, TCA membership is down due to global warming.

I had a blast and spent a boatload of money to help stimulate the economy and help dealers.    (really, I likely spent because I saved lots of money since the LHS closed last June).

I think the pics are going to increase York enthusiasm......and maybe, attendence.

Peter