York Meet "buzz"

I noticed the same. 

Perhaps it's because Lionel's not releasing a catalog until January and MTH's catalog has low expectations...

Rusty

Probably because it's all on its own forum. I don't see a big lack of it. 

time to open it to the public.

I noticed it Also but I really don't have a explanation for it. Maybe people just don't have anymore to complain about but I don't think that is the case and if it was then the end of times is upon us. 

Rusty may be on to something about the catalogs but that can't be it, can it?

It's most likely a combination of the things you mentioned Allan and then some. A lot of folks who live close enough to York generally go just to socialize as much as buy more trains. For the folks who must travel long distances there is the added concerns of travel expenses.

There seems to be a general apathy with the never ending slow economy, worries over jobs or lack thereof and the never ending political dysfunction we witness every day.

It will be interesting to see just how many people actually do show up for the York show. I've noticed a marked decline of attendance in the past several York shows I have attended. The parking lot congestion is usually a good barometer of attendance at York.

The aging demographic is also a factor as many of us are considering downsizing and don't want to add anymore trains to our current collections.

Steve Tapper

I don't believe that York as a social event is lacking at all, if anything more than ever its transforming it, its the lack of development of new products outside of technology advancements, due to various reasons which kills the buzz of i have got to go and see it. Simply the failure of the adult consumer in this hobby to buy into the belief they have to buy rehashed product with nothing more than new technology under the shell doesn't work for many. York is still a great event for our hobby!!!!!

Allan???

With Eddie G's enthusiasm how can you say there is NO BUZZ?

Maybe with the No Cell Phone rule gone there is nothing to complain about?

I believe it is a combination of many things.  The late 1990's and early 2000's spoiled us with vast product choices, technological advances and the start of blowout pricing.  Furthermore, the increased age demographic has resulted in fewer members who are active enough to attend.  There are fewer dealers and manufacturers/importers and what we see from them is generally a rehash of older products with a slight improvements in detail or electronics.  Some of the member halls have the same people bringing the same stuff for the past 10 years at higher prices.  The economy is certainly uncertain for some, while for others it is thriving. 

Choices made:  The train companies and dealers are more cautious, or apprehensive with product offerings and presentation.  Parents with kids getting older have youth activities with related costs that continue to rise.  The O gauge market is possibly/probably saturated.  Speaking for myself; I'm starting to believe that I have enough of the major purchases and I'm focusing on the some of the smaller layout details.  This York, if found, I plan to only purchase one or two specific cars, a spare part, and possibly a couple of DVDs.

There's always the camaraderie and we can continue to hype the countdown and badge received threads but the substance of past York experiences have diminished relative to those of the past 15 years. 

The York Meet will NEVER be opened to the public because of agreements between the Eastern Division and the PA Dept of Revenue.

NEVER means NEVER!!  Hope you read the recent article in the TCA magazine explaining this.

Off the 3 rail forum yes, mainly because it has its own forum. 

For me, I haven't been to York in a number of years, primarily because I can't really afford to take Thursday and/or Friday off and Saturday morning isn't really when I want to drive to York for a half day. In addition, my TCA membership has lapsed and I am no longer a member. Plus, I've severely limited my buying and for the social aspect, most of the people I see/hang out with at York I see at least once per month. Would I like to go back to York? Certainly. Can I do without it, yes and I really have not been unable to resist the desire to return.  Will I return to York in the future? Yes, just not anytime soon. 

That's actually a pretty darn good point, Don!  I hadn't considered that one, but it does make sense, particularly as it applies to those of us who are more interested in new additions to the various lines rather than new paint applied to the exterior and new guts placed inside models we've seen before.

But you're also right about the York Meet still being a great event.  I will certainly miss not being there this time around.

The cell phones!  That's it!  That was over half of all York threads. 

Granted, Eddie is the acknowledged York Meet Buzzmaster of this forum, and he does a superb job of it.  Still, there has obviously been less enthusiasm generated this time around for whatever reason, and it is a matter of some interest, to me at least.

You drummed up some business by your post. I spotted it on the right side of my screen in the recent post column while I was on the main forum. Otherwise I wouldn't have come here.

For me I am tired of all of it. I'm all buzzed out. Same arguments year after year. Same "what are you going to buy?" questions. The pre-York bickering, the economy, the driving, competing for hotel rooms, the strange behavior, you name it. Maybe others are tired too. It's all a sign of the times. That is my report and my opinion.

I may be in the minority, but I hope they never open it to the public.  To do so would, in my opinion, mark the beginning of the end for what has long been a very special event for the dedicated hobbyist.

Ok all good points, but I think we have beat the opening of York to the public to death.  But really..........

1. Who has money?
2. The Government is shutdown
3. Dues to the TCA have almost doubled (and a lot of us join JUST to go to York)
4. We are kind of at the end of the current cycle of O gauge (pre-war, post-war, MPC, etc)

Ok so that is my take.  But I'll still be there as everyone else has said for the social aspect.

And your opinion is certainly as valid as any other opinion expressed here.  I suspect there are others who feel as you do and for many of the same reasons.

Same here,Opening York to the public would be the end of it!

I won't be at York this fall because I'm travelling to a job in Utah that will run for several weeks.Then,I'll be working on a job overseas for the next 2-3 years.I may have to miss the next 5-6 York meets.

Ricky

My two cents - no matter what anyone says - times are tough!  They have been tough the last few years and no matter what the government says, they aren't getting any better.  Taxes go up, health costs go up, gas goes up, turnpike fees go up.  I'm getting older, I have more trains than I can ever run.  I haven't been to York the last 4-5 years.  It was great the first few years I went, but as mentioned above, I did see some vendors there year after year with the same tired overpriced junk.  I have most of the engines and cars in the road names I like and there is nothing new I really want.  If I add up the turnpike cost, gas, motel for even one day, that's money that will get me anything I want on eBay. 

Allan, How is the Dog?

I just checked the hotels in York and there are no rooms available.

I am fairly new to the hobby (5years) ...just got real serious with a pretty decent layout...thank The Lord above no issues with supporting my hobby habits. I have never been to York...I would like to attend BUT.... can't fit it in the schedule... Will try this spring...I'm in my early 40s and have to say I'm the only one of my many friends that is in this hobby ....my fear is where are the newcomers coming from? Where are the 30-40 year olds? That's the concern I have.....however I'm in it for good  

I really don't think for most folks it has much to do with what the latest offerings are or are not.  Truth is we've been pretty much buying the same stuff with improvements for years.  And there is nothing wrong with that.

I have to believe that the current problems in Washington and the economy in general are beginning to weight on people's minds.  From my little corner of the world I just don't see things getting any better.  I believe all of the combined uncertainty has got many people on edge a bit.  That is never a good recipe for spending.

If i am lucky I can get to york every other year or so but I never even thought about it this year given the way things are going.  

I hope this all changes soon so I can stop worrying about my kids and go back to having some fun again. York is still the greatest source of legal fun for this old guy!

Ed

Maybe its just me, but I'm looking forward to the nice long walk...

Washington?  Really?  

Crunch time!

Isn't the real issue Allan not how many TCA members will be attending this meet, nor the pre meet buzz or lack there of, but of those attending: how much money will actually be spent in:

• the member halls
• amongst the professional dealers, retailers, liquidators, jobbers etc. ?

Isn't that really what will determine the future of the meet and how the meet will be run by the Eastern Division in the years to come?

I suppose we also have to realize this forum accounts for what, maybe 1% of the total York attendees? Not even? For all we know the other 99% of York attendees that don't use forums could be bouncing off the walls in anticipation.

All I know for sure is two things. 1) I am super stoked for my first October meet, since the one other April meet I attended was already one of the best times of my life. And 2) The TCA reported numbers have held pretty steady around something like 13,000, so even acknowledging there's a bunch that don't actually attend we still don't see a sharp decline anywhere.

I wouldn't worry. As always a good time will be had by all 

For what it's worth, I think most folks like myself are fed up, tired, and have had enough of the same old cr*p on the news coming out of the vast waste land just south of us here in Baltimore. And maybe just quietly awaiting a few good days to enjoy spending times with good, honest, truly good folks instead of the garbage on the news day after day! Happy, positive vibes from good folks abound at York. I for one, cannot wait to see you all again.

I'm very excited to see everyone. I haven't been posting much because work is so busy. Nowadays, I go for the fun. I don't really need any more trains........but, something always seems to "stow away" in my truck!

Peter

Started going to York in 1989, took a few years off in late 90s, have attended pretty regularly for past 10 years or so.  My observations:

TCA dues doubling?  Compared to all of the other expenses associated with toy trains, using the extra $30 or so as an excuse is a cop out.  NMRA renewal was $66.

Attendance seems to be steadily growing in the past 3 years or so after bottoming out in 2008/2009 - I base this on how easy/difficult it is to move around in the halls.

I never cease to be amazed by the folks who still expect to get 1999 prices for their stuff.  Blue and Silver halls - I'm looking at you.  Do they really enjoy packing and unpacking the same stuff over and over?

Nobody is buying a $100 train for $10 on eBay.  Unless the item wasn't listed properly (whose fault is that?), the market for that item is $10.  Sorry for your loss, and sorry that you thought that trains were a financial investment.

The economy has been rough on the middle class for decades.  It's not the current president.  It's the 1% who keep getting a larger slice of the pie, and it's also every one of us who would rather pay less for an item that is made overseas vs. paying our neighbor a living wage.  (Where are most of our trains manufactured these days?)

The guy who asked where the 30-40 year olds are hit the nail on the head.  Too few of us fall into that demographic.  And the economic pressures on that age group don't make it any easier for them to buy trains.

You can take the negative view and buy guns/ammo instead of trains, or you can have a positive outlook and spend money on things and activities that bring happiness to you and your loved ones.  I'm thankful that I have the time, health, and resources to play with trains.

Sad to hear that some folks feel that they can't take the time off of work.  Life's too short - if you are reasonably good at your job, work will always be there.

The vibe seems to be friendlier in the past few years - maybe it's just me, but there seems to be more focus on operating and enjoying trains vs. accumulating for financial gain.

I'm looking forward to York.

I think it may need to be scaled back to 1x per year, perhaps.  A the moment the event gets diluted among all other events (train and not train related).  The enthusiasm to organize it becomes burdensome, no doubt.

I predict new leadership down the road will reorganize it so that it is 1x per year and held in September with the idea that it is the big 'kick off' to model train "season".

I don't think there is less buzz about the York Meet, I think there is less whining about the rules now that the most complained about rules have been lifted or changed.  Especially from those who never have been or never planned to go to the Meet.

As Nick mentioned this forum is not participated in by everyone who goes to the Meet.  In my case, I've made plans with forum and non-forum members for the four days I'll be there.  And we're all buzzed about it!!

Everyone has valid reasons for attending or not attending the Meet or don't feel the need to express it here.  My wife and I are there because we love the trains and we love seeing friends and making new ones.  Out of all of my many hobbies, model trains are my top interest by far.  I'll worry about the economy, wars and the D.C Circus the other 345 days of the year that I'm not at York or the Allentown Meet enjoying myself with train friends!!

And as far as parking lot availability goes, some of you guys must be lucky!  If I get there 1/2 hour before the doors open, I end up having to park out near Highland Ave beyond the grandstands!!

I have more trains than I'll ever need.  But I have a fever, and the only prescription.... is more trains!!  AWWWWW, WHAT A RUSH!!! 

buzza buzza buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz!!

I am as excited as ever in anticipation of York, but have otherwise no need of broadcasting that excitement.  In light of the economy, it is hard to celebrate when many of my fellow Americans are not in as stable a position as I am.

Andy

Excellent responses, all!  Thanks for the input.  Just the kind of information I'm looking for, and it is very enlightening.

Eddie G:  Thanks for asking about my pooch.  She's hanging in there and probably doing better than I am at this point in time (kidney stones are not much fun).  She and I are both getting old.

I hope all of you folks who are heading to York next week have a grand time.  Wish I could join you there, but I do look forward to your "after-action reports."

Allan, I hope you and your puppy feel better soon.  Hope to see you in April!!

Keep the public out.   Eddie, you were told that because they have all heard of you.

After 66 York shows, they are very exciting to me.  I am glad the people who always post lamo reasons why they do not go to York have faded away. 

They may have an agreement with the Pa. taxman but that's an agreement with a government agency and that is only as good as the paper that it's written on. I don't think the Pa. guys hold the TCA or York in such high esteem as some of us and if things get tight they will look for money wherever they can find it. If the taxman decides to target York at some point in the future this idea may need to be revisited. Whether that would mean shutting down York for good, moving to another venue, leaving everything as is but letting the taxman have his cut or allowing the public in are all options that would probably be considered.

It would be interesting to know if the ED has a contingency plan for this kind of event?

As for the general malaise this time around towards York, it probably has a lot to do with the economy. I for one am not bringing as much money as in the past and my list is a little shorter and has smaller wants on it and up until a few weeks ago I really only a general idea of what I might want, a couple of big items but just a lot of little things, kinda hard to get really excited about a pile of Plasticville telephone poles or a pack of light bulbs! 

Jerry