ZW-C Firmware Upgrade Issue for Legacy

Chuck I don't know anything BUT I had a brand new ZW-C w/2-180w bricks sitting in the box for 5 years. I just installed it and it runs in Command perfect in fact I added 2 more 180W bricks. I understand that some were upgraded with some kind of internal metal brackets. Nick

Is this what you are referring to?

http://www.martye.com/TipsandTricks/PWCZWLegacy.htm

It seems like it involves a problem with the Halt command, but not all ZWs had the problem. I don't have Legacy, so I don't know.

George

George S posted:

Is this what you are referring to?

http://www.martye.com/TipsandTricks/PWCZWLegacy.htm

It seems like it involves a problem with the Halt command, but not all ZWs had the problem. I don't have Legacy, so I don't know.

George

George, thats not was what I was talking about, but now I remember Mike R. Mentioning a possible "halt" problem in his video. Some had  defective plastic brackets dis engaging the handles from the potentiometers. They issued metal ones. I run in command so I actually never touch the ZW's handles. Nick

rockstars1989 posted:

George S posted:

Is this what you are referring to?

http://www.martye.com/TipsandTricks/PWCZWLegacy.htm

It seems like it involves a problem with the Halt command, but not all ZWs had the problem. I don't have Legacy, so I don't know.

George

George, thats not was what I was talking about, but now I remember Mike R. Mentioning a possible "halt" problem in his video. Some had  defective plastic brackets dis engaging the handles from the potentiometers. They issued metal ones. I run in command so I actually never touch the ZW's handles. Nick

Nick,

Yes, I have heard about and experienced that problem on an older unit. My current one doesn't do that, but I haven't opened it to see if it has the metal brackets.

The link I posted was meant to address Chuck's question on firmware.

George

George S posted:

rockstars1989 posted:

George S posted:

Is this what you are referring to?

http://www.martye.com/TipsandTricks/PWCZWLegacy.htm

It seems like it involves a problem with the Halt command, but not all ZWs had the problem. I don't have Legacy, so I don't know.

George

George, thats not was what I was talking about, but now I remember Mike R. Mentioning a possible "halt" problem in his video. Some had  defective plastic brackets dis engaging the handles from the potentiometers. They issued metal ones. I run in command so I actually never touch the ZW's handles. Nick

Nick,

Yes, I have heard about and experienced that problem on an older unit. My current one doesn't do that, but I haven't opened it to see if it has the metal brackets.

The link I posted was meant to address Chuck's question on firmware.

George

Yes George, that's what I was looking for. Thanks for remembering it...I had probably read that once and forgotten what the issue was. I replaced my firmware chip when the chips were available, and was wondering what the downside was if I or someone bought an older one without the new chip.

I found this when Legacy came out as I'm sure others. My layout would shut down with no rhyme or reason. Working with JonZ, he and his team found the solution. The only symptom I found was the random layout halting as well as sometimes I couldn't even get the layout to power up. The new firmware solved all of my issues. 

I see that the chip (691ZWPCS01) is unavailable now. I always wonder if the original stock was on the short side of how many older ZW-Cs there were. The updated mother board is also unavailable (691ZWPC100). Also, I'm curious if the chip could be copied and made available if needed. I like the ZW-C and live if fear that I would be force to use a ZW-L some day which does not have the feature of the power on B and C going to the lever settings when simply applying power to the unit. I realize Lionel wants to sell the new one, but it turns out the old version was in some ways superior. I think I would probably go the TPC direction which at least has the TRK 1 Boost feature of bringing up the power for TMCC or Legacy operation.

cjack posted:

I see that the chip (691ZWPCS01) is unavailable now. I always wonder if the original stock was on the short side of how many older ZW-Cs there were. The updated mother board is also unavailable (691ZWPC100). Also, I'm curious if the chip could be copied and made available if needed. I like the ZW-C and live if fear that I would be force to use a ZW-L some day which does not have the feature of the power on B and C going to the lever settings when simply applying power to the unit. I realize Lionel wants to sell the new one, but it turns out the old version was in some ways superior. I think I would probably go the TPC direction which at least has the TRK 1 Boost feature of bringing up the power for TMCC or Legacy operation.

Hi Chuck,

I totally agree. 

The chip on the board is a 16C65A PIC, which is a programmable EPROM with 192K of programmable capacity. Here is the spec sheet. http://ww1.microchip.com/downl...DeviceDoc/30234E.pdf  So, if you could get your hands on the upgrade chip and you could find someone with an EPROM reader and writer, then this is doable. EPROM readers / writers are not that expensive based on a quick search. You would copy the code off the Lionel chip and upload it to the new chip. It should be relatively straightforward, but I have not done this myself.

The good news is that that looks like the most sophisticated part of the motherboard. If we could write one for archive purposes, we should be able to keep these running for a long time.

George 

BTW, here is the support page for the ZW-C. https://www.lionelsupport.com/...mp;resultsPerPage=75

It specs the parts for the chips, MOS-FETs and potentiometers. Even though these are not available from Lionel, these look like standard electronic components.

George

George S posted:

The chip on the board is a 16C65A PIC, which is a programmable EPROM with 192K of programmable capacity. Here is the spec sheet. http://ww1.microchip.com/downl...DeviceDoc/30234E.pdf  So, if you could get your hands on the upgrade chip and you could find someone with an EPROM reader and writer, then this is doable. EPROM readers / writers are not that expensive based on a quick search. You would copy the code off the Lionel chip and upload it to the new chip. It should be relatively straightforward, but I have not done this myself.

If it's that simple I might know someone that could help with that.  I just need to remember to ask them.

cjack posted:

I like the ZW-C and live if fear that I would be force to use a ZW-L some day which does not have the feature of the power on B and C going to the lever settings when simply applying power to the unit. I realize Lionel wants to sell the new one, but it turns out the old version was in some ways superior.

I dislike that operation but actually asked that Lionel on the ZW-L to provide a dip switch that an operator could choose how the B and C handles operated giving us an option for those who were using B and C to operate accessories vs operating trains.  I would assume that either the engineering was too far along or they felt it wasn't needed.

MartyE posted:

cjack posted:

I like the ZW-C and live if fear that I would be force to use a ZW-L some day which does not have the feature of the power on B and C going to the lever settings when simply applying power to the unit. I realize Lionel wants to sell the new one, but it turns out the old version was in some ways superior.

I dislike that operation but actually asked that Lionel on the ZW-L to provide a dip switch that an operator could choose how the B and C handles operated giving us an option for those who were using B and C to operate accessories vs operating trains.  I would assume that either the engineering was too far along or they felt it wasn't needed.

That's why we searched out a ZW-C, on start up the two inner handles came up just where you left them which is great when you use B and C for a constantly fixed voltage.

• George S posted:

cjack posted:

I see that the chip (691ZWPCS01) is unavailable now. I always wonder if the original stock was on the short side of how many older ZW-Cs there were. The updated mother board is also unavailable (691ZWPC100). Also, I'm curious if the chip could be copied and made available if needed. I like the ZW-C and live if fear that I would be force to use a ZW-L some day which does not have the feature of the power on B and C going to the lever settings when simply applying power to the unit. I realize Lionel wants to sell the new one, but it turns out the old version was in some ways superior. I think I would probably go the TPC direction which at least has the TRK 1 Boost feature of bringing up the power for TMCC or Legacy operation.

Hi Chuck,

I totally agree. 

The chip on the board is a 16C65A PIC, which is a programmable EPROM with 192K of programmable capacity. Here is the spec sheet. http://ww1.microchip.com/downl...DeviceDoc/30234E.pdf  So, if you could get your hands on the upgrade chip and you could find someone with an EPROM reader and writer, then this is doable. EPROM readers / writers are not that expensive based on a quick search. You would copy the code off the Lionel chip and upload it to the new chip. It should be relatively straightforward, but I have not done this myself.

The good news is that that looks like the most sophisticated part of the motherboard. If we could write one for archive purposes, we should be able to keep these running for a long time.

George 

Does anyone have a suggestion as to the best EPROM reader/writer to use to upgrade the ZWPC_S01.HEX chip?  I found this one on amzon and don't know if it is what I need.

https://www.amazon.com/Signste...B9D7BPRXSJB6PTHD8X43

Thanks,

Greg

I also have two more questions:

Does that model of chip have a generic type?

and

Are you suppose to buy the same model of chip and copy the code from the old chip and paste onto new chip with no edits? Or should the code be edited?

After some research into how to use an EPROM reader/writer, it’s very likely that the chip is bit locked and can’t be copied. It’s standard practice in professional software development. I don’t know this for a fact, but it’s a lot of effort for a guess.

I would call Lionel first and ask if they would make you one.

George

I can assure you that anything like that is locked from Lionel.  I've attempted to read a number of their chips, all have been locked.

The problem was the Halt command happening randomly by itself.

I bought a ZW-C not knowing the defect and was using all 4 handles to power different accessories on my layout with 4 bricks.

There was no connection to the track and I just had it in conventional mode.  One handle was powering a set of lights on my layout.  Randomly and very frequently they would shut down.  I pulled my hair out thinking it was a short, or overloading the circuit, or bad brick.  

Then one day I decided to try and dig into it by switching the circuit to another handle.  By accident I noticed when my hand got close to the transformer controller, it shut down.

So all along what was happening is anytime my body or hand got close it would shut down.  I never noticed it!

I could now repeat the problem over and over and have it shut down when I touched the case of the transformer controller or waved my hand near it.  So I dug into it and made a post on here and Marty answered with the issue.

All I did to resolve it, since Lionel told me no chips are available, is take off the cover and unplug the TMCC signal antenna from the board.

Problem solved!   So I can still use it as a conventional transformer now, and it does not shut down anymore.

Its a shame as I could never sell it as a working TMCC controller, just a conventional one since I cannot get the updated chip.

SandJam posted:

The problem was the Halt command happening randomly by itself.

I bought a ZW-C not knowing the defect and was using all 4 handles to power different accessories on my layout with 4 bricks.

There was no connection to the track and I just had it in conventional mode.  One handle was powering a set of lights on my layout.  Randomly and very frequently they would shut down.  I pulled my hair out thinking it was a short, or overloading the circuit, or bad brick.  

Then one day I decided to try and dig into it by switching the circuit to another handle.  By accident I noticed when my hand got close to the transformer controller, it shut down.

So all along what was happening is anytime my body or hand got close it would shut down.  I never noticed it!

I could now repeat the problem over and over and have it shut down when I touched the case of the transformer controller or waved my hand near it.  So I dug into it and made a post on here and Marty answered with the issue.

All I did to resolve it, since Lionel told me no chips are available, is take off the cover and unplug the TMCC signal antenna from the board.

Problem solved!   So I can still use it as a conventional transformer now, and it does not shut down anymore.

Its a shame as I could never sell it as a working TMCC controller, just a conventional one since I cannot get the updated chip.

Can I still operate my TPC's if I disconnect the antenna from the ZW?

Gregcz1 posted:

SandJam posted:

The problem was the Halt command happening randomly by itself.

I bought a ZW-C not knowing the defect and was using all 4 handles to power different accessories on my layout with 4 bricks.

There was no connection to the track and I just had it in conventional mode.  One handle was powering a set of lights on my layout.  Randomly and very frequently they would shut down.  I pulled my hair out thinking it was a short, or overloading the circuit, or bad brick.  

Then one day I decided to try and dig into it by switching the circuit to another handle.  By accident I noticed when my hand got close to the transformer controller, it shut down.

So all along what was happening is anytime my body or hand got close it would shut down.  I never noticed it!

I could now repeat the problem over and over and have it shut down when I touched the case of the transformer controller or waved my hand near it.  So I dug into it and made a post on here and Marty answered with the issue.

All I did to resolve it, since Lionel told me no chips are available, is take off the cover and unplug the TMCC signal antenna from the board.

Problem solved!   So I can still use it as a conventional transformer now, and it does not shut down anymore.

Its a shame as I could never sell it as a working TMCC controller, just a conventional one since I cannot get the updated chip.

Can I still operate my TPC's if I disconnect the antenna from the ZW?

Are you using Cab-1 or Legacy? TPC's are older technology and not affected by this problem. Also, are you trying to control the track voltage through the remote with the TPC, the ZW or both? I'm not sure why you are using a TPC and a ZW-C. If you are not trying to control the ZW with the remote, then it doesn't need to be programmed and you don't need the chip. I use Cab-1 with the ZW programmed and don't have this problem. It is exclusive to trying to control the ZW-C with Legacy.

George

SandJam posted:

The problem was the Halt command happening randomly by itself.

I bought a ZW-C not knowing the defect and was using all 4 handles to power different accessories on my layout with 4 bricks.

There was no connection to the track and I just had it in conventional mode.  One handle was powering a set of lights on my layout.  Randomly and very frequently they would shut down.  I pulled my hair out thinking it was a short, or overloading the circuit, or bad brick.  

Then one day I decided to try and dig into it by switching the circuit to another handle.  By accident I noticed when my hand got close to the transformer controller, it shut down.

So all along what was happening is anytime my body or hand got close it would shut down.  I never noticed it!

I could now repeat the problem over and over and have it shut down when I touched the case of the transformer controller or waved my hand near it.  So I dug into it and made a post on here and Marty answered with the issue.

All I did to resolve it, since Lionel told me no chips are available, is take off the cover and unplug the TMCC signal antenna from the board.

Problem solved!   So I can still use it as a conventional transformer now, and it does not shut down anymore.

Its a shame as I could never sell it as a working TMCC controller, just a conventional one since I cannot get the updated chip.

I have never had the problem you had and I have two of these. Do you have Legacy hooked up on your layout? It's possible the ZW-C was programmed by a prior owner. You could conceivably get the Legacy signal from the U common post on the ZW being hooked to the track where the Legacy base is attached.

George

George S posted:

Gregcz1 posted:

SandJam posted:

The problem was the Halt command happening randomly by itself.

I bought a ZW-C not knowing the defect and was using all 4 handles to power different accessories on my layout with 4 bricks.

There was no connection to the track and I just had it in conventional mode.  One handle was powering a set of lights on my layout.  Randomly and very frequently they would shut down.  I pulled my hair out thinking it was a short, or overloading the circuit, or bad brick.  

Then one day I decided to try and dig into it by switching the circuit to another handle.  By accident I noticed when my hand got close to the transformer controller, it shut down.

So all along what was happening is anytime my body or hand got close it would shut down.  I never noticed it!

I could now repeat the problem over and over and have it shut down when I touched the case of the transformer controller or waved my hand near it.  So I dug into it and made a post on here and Marty answered with the issue.

All I did to resolve it, since Lionel told me no chips are available, is take off the cover and unplug the TMCC signal antenna from the board.

Problem solved!   So I can still use it as a conventional transformer now, and it does not shut down anymore.

Its a shame as I could never sell it as a working TMCC controller, just a conventional one since I cannot get the updated chip.

Can I still operate my TPC's if I disconnect the antenna from the ZW?

Are you using Cab-1 or Legacy? TPC's are older technology and not affected by this problem. Also, are you trying to control the track voltage through the remote with the TPC, the ZW or both? I'm not sure why you are using a TPC and a ZW-C. If you are not trying to control the ZW with the remote, then it doesn't need to be programmed and you don't need the chip. I use Cab-1 with the ZW programmed and don't have this problem. It is exclusive to trying to control the ZW-C with Legacy.

George

I am using a Legacy remote to control the TPC's which are powered by the 180W bricks connected to a ZWC.  My guess is since the ZW's throttles are all at full power, and the TPC's are controlling the signals...I could do without the antenna in the ZWC?

Gregcz1 posted:

George S posted:

Gregcz1 posted:

SandJam posted:

The problem was the Halt command happening randomly by itself.

I bought a ZW-C not knowing the defect and was using all 4 handles to power different accessories on my layout with 4 bricks.

There was no connection to the track and I just had it in conventional mode.  One handle was powering a set of lights on my layout.  Randomly and very frequently they would shut down.  I pulled my hair out thinking it was a short, or overloading the circuit, or bad brick.  

Then one day I decided to try and dig into it by switching the circuit to another handle.  By accident I noticed when my hand got close to the transformer controller, it shut down.

So all along what was happening is anytime my body or hand got close it would shut down.  I never noticed it!

I could now repeat the problem over and over and have it shut down when I touched the case of the transformer controller or waved my hand near it.  So I dug into it and made a post on here and Marty answered with the issue.

All I did to resolve it, since Lionel told me no chips are available, is take off the cover and unplug the TMCC signal antenna from the board.

Problem solved!   So I can still use it as a conventional transformer now, and it does not shut down anymore.

Its a shame as I could never sell it as a working TMCC controller, just a conventional one since I cannot get the updated chip.

Can I still operate my TPC's if I disconnect the antenna from the ZW?

Are you using Cab-1 or Legacy? TPC's are older technology and not affected by this problem. Also, are you trying to control the track voltage through the remote with the TPC, the ZW or both? I'm not sure why you are using a TPC and a ZW-C. If you are not trying to control the ZW with the remote, then it doesn't need to be programmed and you don't need the chip. I use Cab-1 with the ZW programmed and don't have this problem. It is exclusive to trying to control the ZW-C with Legacy.

George

I am using a Legacy remote to control the TPC's which are powered by the 180W bricks connected to a ZWC.  My guess is since the ZW's throttles are all at full power, and the TPC's are controlling the signals...I could do without the antenna in the ZWC?

You shouldn't need to disconnect the antenna. Just reset the ZW-C to conventional mode. You do this by putting it in programming mode, press TR on the remote, press 0 on the remote, press SET. You shouldn't see the red light flickering on the ZW-C anymore after this, and you shouldn't have the HALT problem.

George

George S posted:

Gregcz1 posted:

George S posted:

Gregcz1 posted:

SandJam posted:

The problem was the Halt command happening randomly by itself.

I bought a ZW-C not knowing the defect and was using all 4 handles to power different accessories on my layout with 4 bricks.

There was no connection to the track and I just had it in conventional mode.  One handle was powering a set of lights on my layout.  Randomly and very frequently they would shut down.  I pulled my hair out thinking it was a short, or overloading the circuit, or bad brick.  

Then one day I decided to try and dig into it by switching the circuit to another handle.  By accident I noticed when my hand got close to the transformer controller, it shut down.

So all along what was happening is anytime my body or hand got close it would shut down.  I never noticed it!

I could now repeat the problem over and over and have it shut down when I touched the case of the transformer controller or waved my hand near it.  So I dug into it and made a post on here and Marty answered with the issue.

All I did to resolve it, since Lionel told me no chips are available, is take off the cover and unplug the TMCC signal antenna from the board.

Problem solved!   So I can still use it as a conventional transformer now, and it does not shut down anymore.

Its a shame as I could never sell it as a working TMCC controller, just a conventional one since I cannot get the updated chip.

Can I still operate my TPC's if I disconnect the antenna from the ZW?

Are you using Cab-1 or Legacy? TPC's are older technology and not affected by this problem. Also, are you trying to control the track voltage through the remote with the TPC, the ZW or both? I'm not sure why you are using a TPC and a ZW-C. If you are not trying to control the ZW with the remote, then it doesn't need to be programmed and you don't need the chip. I use Cab-1 with the ZW programmed and don't have this problem. It is exclusive to trying to control the ZW-C with Legacy.

George

I am using a Legacy remote to control the TPC's which are powered by the 180W bricks connected to a ZWC.  My guess is since the ZW's throttles are all at full power, and the TPC's are controlling the signals...I could do without the antenna in the ZWC?

You shouldn't need to disconnect the antenna. Just reset the ZW-C to conventional mode. You do this by putting it in programming mode, press TR on the remote, press 0 on the remote, press SET. You shouldn't see the red light flickering on the ZW-C anymore after this, and you shouldn't have the HALT problem.

George

No that is not how it works.  As I said I was already in conventional mode.  This is the defect in the chip.  It still sees the Legacy signal.   It was NOT connected to the track.  It was purely through the antenna.

Remember, not all ZW-C's are affected by this, just the older ones.  Mine has been running with Legacy the whole time I've owned it (Since the release of the VisionLine Big Boy.) and has never shut down.  Now, sometimes it doesn't respond right away to turning the power up using the remote, but it always work once it does (I think it's just a little slow to respond.).

sinclair posted:

Remember, not all ZW-C's are affected by this, just the older ones.  Mine has been running with Legacy the whole time I've owned it (Since the release of the VisionLine Big Boy.) and has never shut down.  Now, sometimes it doesn't respond right away to turning the power up using the remote, but it always work once it does (I think it's just a little slow to respond.).

Thank you. I was about to ask this as I have a ZW-C and I've never experienced this issue.  I use it with Legacy/TMCC and DCS

The last time this subject came up, I thought someone said that Lionel made them a chip. Is that not true? I can easily see why one Lionel phone answerer or another would take the easy answer and say no, but did it happen?

I tried and gave up.  Multiple people from Lionel said no.  Honestly Lionel support knowledge , in my opinion, has gone way done in last few years.

They don't even bother replying to e-mails anymore.  You must call and even then each person you talk to about anything gives different answers, or says they will call you back and never do.

Really disappointing.

I certainly know what you mean!  I have sent Lionel 3 E-mails regarding 2 separate issues in the last Month!  To this date, no replies !!!

Fredstrains

SandJam posted:

No that is not how it works.  As I said I was already in conventional mode.  This is the defect in the chip.  It still sees the Legacy signal.   It was NOT connected to the track.  It was purely through the antenna.

Open it up, connect the antenna to the common bar, no more TMCC signal reception.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

SandJam posted:

No that is not how it works.  As I said I was already in conventional mode.  This is the defect in the chip.  It still sees the Legacy signal.   It was NOT connected to the track.  It was purely through the antenna.

Open it up, connect the antenna to the common bar, no more TMCC signal reception.

Where is the antenna? I have had both mine open and did not see an antenna. The TMCC antenna is in the Powermaster and Command Base and it is a coil of wire. I see nothing like that in the ZW-C. There's a ground wire to the heat sink fins. Removing that seems dangerous.

Also, why does the ZW-C require a wire to the Command Base if there is an antenna? I wish Dale Manquen was around. He could help us without this chip upgrade.

George

Connect the circled wire to the common U posts, there really is an antenna.  Actually, connecting the antenna connection to that Command Base binding post is more to the point.

From the User's Manual.

You may choose to connect the Command Base (available separately) communication wire to the
Command Base binding post on the back of the ZW-L Transformer. See Figure 6.Alternately, you
may connect the Command Base communication wire directly to the outside rail.

The "command base" connection is really the track connection, that's the other half of the TMCC signal path.  The antenna is still required to receive the TMCC signal radiated from the "earth ground". 

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Connect the circled wire to the common U posts, there really is an antenna.  Actually, connecting the antenna connection to that Command Base binding post is more to the point.

From the User's Manual.

You may choose to connect the Command Base (available separately) communication wire to the
Command Base binding post on the back of the ZW-L Transformer. See Figure 6.Alternately, you
may connect the Command Base communication wire directly to the outside rail.

The "command base" connection is really the track connection, that's the other half of the TMCC signal path.  The antenna is still required to receive the TMCC signal radiated from the "earth ground". 

Thanks John! That is the wire I thought was a ground wire. I guess the metal fins are actually the antenna?

George

I honestly can't say what the antenna is, I don't have one anymore to look at.   Wherever that connector wire I illustrate goes is the antenna.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I honestly can't say what the antenna is, I don't have one anymore to look at.   Wherever that connector wire I illustrate goes is the antenna.

Here's a pic of the ZW-C antenna.  The antenna is clearly visible on the back of the unit once the cover is removed.  The plug is located on the motherboard on the front at the top left (nearest the left hand dials [A & B]).

I just removed mine and now have no issues with the Legacy Base "Halt Bug".  Since my TPC's receive the commands, an antenna in the transformer is unnecessary.  

If you have a Legacy base, connected to a ZW-C w/ bricks for power and have this issue, disconnecting the ZW-C antenna and adding TPC 300's or 400's is the only remedy without having to purchase a ZW-L (or the ZW version that came out before the "L" version.)  The chip to override the bug is no longer available.

Depending on how many TPC's you need it can be costly, but likely not as much as the price of a new ZW-L.

There is one other recommendation I have.  It seems that if the Legacy Base is connected to a TMCC Base via the "Y" cable, the "Halt Bug" dissipates but occasionally there is a dropped command or a missed signal.  

Gregcz1 posted:

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I honestly can't say what the antenna is, I don't have one anymore to look at.   Wherever that connector wire I illustrate goes is the antenna.

Here's a pic of the ZW-C antenna.  The antenna is clearly visible on the back of the unit once the cover is removed.  The plug is located on the motherboard on the front at the top left (nearest the left hand dials [A & B]).

I just removed mine and now have no issues with the Legacy Base "Halt Bug".  Since my TPC's receive the commands, an antenna in the transformer is unnecessary.  

If you have a Legacy base, connected to a ZW-C w/ bricks for power and have this issue, disconnecting the ZW-C antenna and adding TPC 300's or 400's is the only remedy without having to purchase a ZW-L (or the ZW version that came out before the "L" version.)  The chip to override the bug is no longer available.

Depending on how many TPC's you need it can be costly, but likely not as much as the price of a new ZW-L.

There is one other recommendation I have.  It seems that if the Legacy Base is connected to a TMCC Base via the "Y" cable, the "Halt Bug" dissipates but occasionally there is a dropped command or a missed signal.  

I really like that last recommendation. I suspect many folks get rid of the TMCC base because it is redundant. 

How do you like the TPC voltage control compared to the ZW-C? I am looking for an option to control voltage for conventional use with an app. I have DCS and the variable channels on the TIU start at too high of a voltage for my applications.

George 

George S posted:

Gregcz1 posted:

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I honestly can't say what the antenna is, I don't have one anymore to look at.   Wherever that connector wire I illustrate goes is the antenna.

Here's a pic of the ZW-C antenna.  The antenna is clearly visible on the back of the unit once the cover is removed.  The plug is located on the motherboard on the front at the top left (nearest the left hand dials [A & B]).

I just removed mine and now have no issues with the Legacy Base "Halt Bug".  Since my TPC's receive the commands, an antenna in the transformer is unnecessary.  

If you have a Legacy base, connected to a ZW-C w/ bricks for power and have this issue, disconnecting the ZW-C antenna and adding TPC 300's or 400's is the only remedy without having to purchase a ZW-L (or the ZW version that came out before the "L" version.)  The chip to override the bug is no longer available.

Depending on how many TPC's you need it can be costly, but likely not as much as the price of a new ZW-L.

There is one other recommendation I have.  It seems that if the Legacy Base is connected to a TMCC Base via the "Y" cable, the "Halt Bug" dissipates but occasionally there is a dropped command or a missed signal.  

I really like that last recommendation. I suspect many folks get rid of the TMCC base because it is redundant. 

How do you like the TPC voltage control compared to the ZW-C? I am looking for an option to control voltage for conventional use with an app. I have DCS and the variable channels on the TIU start at too high of a voltage for my applications.

George 

I have never tried using the ZW-C as voltage control.  I have always used 4 TPC-400's to control the bricks.  My only complaint is that while the ZW handles are at full throttle (18 volts) each tpc only puts out 15 volts. (Yes, I did try to adjust the voltage output on the TPC's).

Not sure if this is the correct thread for this, but I am a newbie and just purchased a ZW-C with 2 180w powerbricks as well as a legacy base/controller already having 1.6 software, so I think it's up to date.  I've programmed the ZW-C to Track 1 and turned everything on in command mode.  Turn the throttle on the zwc up to 18v and of course nothing happens b/c i'm in command mode.  I then press the track 1 button and scroll the wheel to turn up the voltage to the track but every time I do it, the powerbrick circuit breaker pops.  Not sure what i'm doing wrong really.  I have a very simple and small fastrack layout and I'm just trying to get the legacy remote to work.  Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks.

@Ghost914 posted:

 I then press the track 1 button and scroll the wheel to turn up the voltage to the track but every time I do it, the powerbrick circuit breaker pops.  Not sure what i'm doing wrong really.  I have a very simple and small fastrack layout and I'm just trying to get the legacy remote to work.  Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks.

IIRC the chip issue did not trip the breaker. Is the transformer output connected to the tracks when it does this? If so, have you attempted it with just the brick plugged into the ZW-C? Or just the brick wired to the tracks? Sounds like you have a short somewhere.

 Before I purchased both, I was just using an MTH explorer which was working fine. Had no problems at all with it. After hooking up everything else, I unpluggged the explorer to make sure it wouldn’t interfere with the other components. Not sure why there would be a short somewhere if it was working prior to hooking them both up. Still might be one so I’ll have to figure out where I guess. Maybe i didn’t hook it up correctly. 

Understood.

Does the brick breaker pop by itself?

Does the brick breaker pop when it is just plugged it into the ZW-C and you raise the voltage? 

Or does it only pop when all of it is connected to the tracks?

Good question. Didn’t have a lot of time last night to troubleshoot and I’m not at home at the moment. But will check it out tonight and get back to you. 

Yes the brick breaker pops by itself.  It does not pop when I use the zwc conventionally without the legacy remote.  

Sometimes when there many engines or lighted cars on the track the inrush of 18 volts (command mode) will trip the breaker. Either take some engines or cars off or bring the voltage up to max slowly. It worked for me years ago before I went to the ZWL. 

You can also upgrade to LED lighting, no problems of excess current from power-hungry incandescent bulbs.

 Passenger Car LED Lighting Kit

@Ghost914 posted:

Yes the brick breaker pops by itself.  It does not pop when I use the zwc conventionally without the legacy remote.  

I'm confused. The brick by itself pops the breaker when you turn it on? 

Or it pops when plugged into the ZW-C when you use it in command mode but does not pop when you use the throttle handle?

@BobbyD posted:

I'm confused. The brick by itself pops the breaker when you turn it on? 

Or it pops when plugged into the ZW-C when you use it in command mode but does not pop when you use the throttle handle?

Not just when I turn it on.  The brick pops when plugged into the zwc when in command mode.  I turn the dial on the remote and it pops.  I tried it conventionally and it's fine when I use the throttle handle.

@Ghost914 posted:

Not just when I turn it on.  The brick pops when plugged into the zwc when in command mode.  I turn the dial on the remote and it pops.  I tried it conventionally and it's fine when I use the throttle handle.

Got it. Even if you rotate it up slow? Do you have a voltmeter you can attach to the track? 

@BobbyD posted:

Got it. Even if you rotate it up slow? Do you have a voltmeter you can attach to the track? 

Yes, even if I rotate slow.  I do have a voltmeter.  I'll have to check it out later on tonight.

@Ghost914 posted:

Yes, even if I rotate slow.  I do have a voltmeter.  I'll have to check it out later on tonight.

Will be interesting to see the voltage it pops at.