@chinatrain99 posted:What’s exciting to me is that Menards is Midwest. They make rolling stock in Burlington northern, Illinois, and rock island. If they start making engines with those road names, I’ll be ecstatic!!!
If Menards offers a Milwaukee Road unit, I’m all in again.
Go Friendly, and have a Black Widow set. (SP)
Has there ever been a locomotive release that caused this much excitement? 12 pages of discussion and counting…
Bravo to Menards for introducing a locomotive. I like it. I do hope they can offer better slow speed control on future releases. A better sounding horn would be a plus too.
Other suggestions - this model begs to be run as an A-A set. I hope they offer a dummy version. Paint a set in in Pennsy 5-stripe Tuscan and another in NYC passenger lightning stripe with silver trucks and I’m in for both!
Tracking claims that the USPS will actually deliver mine today. So, 4 days from WI to MD. Thanks for your efficiency improvements Mr. DeJoy. 
@Craftech posted:1. Turned up the track voltage on my tubular track layout (measured with an AC voltmeter) with KW throttle till it read 18v center to outside rail.
2. Placed engine on track and plugged in KW. Engine started.
3. Turned on remote. Light came on, sound level adjusted with remote volume control.
4. Moved forward no problem, ran a few feet, and then it tripped the circuit breaker I have in line with rails. The breaker is rated at 7.5A (Sensata breaker).
5. Disconnected everything except power to a single lockon. Same thing after a few feet.
6. Turned voltage down to around 16v. Tripped the breaker after short run again.
7. Connected different accessory terminals to track, but I could not get a reading on my voltmeter at the track so I was afraid to try the engine that way. I have never connected the accessory terminals to the track before anyway.
8. Next step is to make a circle with some Menards tubular track, connect power to it, and try it again. If that doesn't work I will get an 18v DC power supply and try that on my tubular track. Positive to center rail, negative to one of the outside rails.\
John
Follow-up:
1. Made an 0-36 circle from Menards tubular track
2. Using a lockon I attached the center rail to a 7.5A Sensata Circuit breaker and the breaker to the U Post on a Post War 1033 transformer. The outer rail went to the C post.
3. Immediately upon plugging in the 1033 the engine started.
4. After doing the usual bending of the battery terminals on the remote that came on too.
5. The engine ran around the circle continuously without tripping the breaker. The remote worked as others have been describing. Abrupt starts and stops, but otherwise no problem. Funky horn as described too. Importantly, this engine doesn't seem to like my normal setup and trips the breaker. I should examine my setup further.
6. As Jim and Roy have pointed out, it doesn't appear to need very many volts to operate. I varied the handle position on the 1033 and it didn't seem to make much of a difference. I may try it with a DC power supply as well.
As far as the abrupt starts and stops, if not the engine, maybe the remote. It has a 10K pot. Here is what it looks like. Nothing complicated about it.
John
In looking at the MSRP pricing in todays lionel catalog for diesels, its really refreshing to know someone's bringing more user friendly pricing to this guage/hobby! $499.99 for a superbass diesel which is a non powered shell with a sound board meantime the powered unit is only $100.00 more?
The final version of this O gauge/O scale FP7 diesel has to have a conventional transformer power mode board & switch, in case the remote is lost or will not operate.
Andrew
For anyone who has this model for testing, can we get a picture comparison of this model vs a Williams/Kusan F7, especially the front nose area!
@Craftech posted:Follow-up:
1. Made an 0-36 circle from Menards tubular track
2. Using a lockon I attached the center rail to a 7.5A Sensata Circuit breaker and the breaker to the U Post on a Post War 1033 transformer. The outer rail went to the C post.
3. Immediately upon plugging in the 1033 the engine started.
4. After doing the usual bending of the battery terminals on the remote that came on too.
5. The engine ran around the circle continuously without tripping the breaker. The remote worked as others have been describing. Abrupt starts and stops, but otherwise no problem. Funky horn as described too. Importantly, this engine doesn't seem to like my normal setup and trips the breaker. I should examine my setup further.
6. As Jim and Roy have pointed out, it doesn't appear to need very many volts to operate. I varied the handle position on the 1033 and it didn't seem to make much of a difference. I may try it with a DC power supply as well.
As far as the abrupt starts and stops, if not the engine, maybe the remote. It has a 10K pot. Here is what it looks like. Nothing complicated about it.
John
So what does a 10K Pot mean, and what would be better in its place to improve the low speed control?
Thanks
Dan
@falconservice posted:The final version of this O gauge/O scale FP7 diesel has to have a conventional transformer power mode board & switch, in case the remote is lost or will not operate.
Andrew
I feel the same way. Mainly because I have nearly all postwar and run conventionally. I would really like to add some inexpensive new engines to my layout.
I have recently purchased several of Menards rolling stock and I am pleased with them.
There are some of us out here that have small budgets to add things to our layouts each year. I feel this price point will allow me to add a couple new engines at once.
PRR and Reading please. 😊
@Daniel Bobrovsky posted:So what does a 10K Pot mean, and what would be better in its place to improve the low speed control?
Thanks
Dan
It goes from 0 to 10,000 Ohms resistance. Seeing the low range would be essentially the same on a bigger pot (say a 100K) I'm not sure if it would effect the low speed/stop operation. The locomotive board could simply shut down after a certain low voltage is reached.
Rusty
I'd like the record to show I've been calling this since 2017 
: https://ogrforum.com/...64#74213916758512664
I think it's amazing and awesome that Menards is getting into motive power. I'm a conventional guy with a couple of Lionchief + and bluerail engines operating on 031. I've also been wanting a War Bonnet for a while - so I would definitely see myself jumping in the ring on this one. This is a great value below $200.
My observations/feedback from just seeing it online:
1. The metallic trucks / fuel tank and the matte finish paint on the shell look strange together. Reminds me of how I dress for zoom calls - shirt and coat up top, and shorts on bottom. I would suggest a glossy paint finish on the shell or dull down the bottom half.
2. I agree it would be nice to run it conventionally as @falconservice mentions. Even if the switch was simply between remote and forward only. I can swap in an e-unit or different control system if really needed. I'd rather keep the initial cost down.
3. It does appear that the gears are plastic from one of the pics posted. The drive train should be metal gears and bullet proof. The additional cost for metal gears would be worth it.
4. Rename it as an FP7 as others have mentioned. Casual O Gauge guys would buy it either way because of the paint scheme. Scale-ish guys could sleep easier at night knowing they purchased and FP7 and not an out of scale F3.
5. Two motors - great value
6. Remote control - great - directly competing with Lionchief...volume dial is nice feature
7. Nice variety of phrases
8. Directional lighting - nice feature, great value
9. Rugged stamped-steel frame, Metal trucks with die-cast frame - durability is key
Nice job @Menards Mark and @cabinet Bob
@JD2035RR posted:I'd like the record to show I've been calling this since 2017
I think it's amazing and awesome that Menards is getting into motive power. I'm a conventional guy with a couple of Lionchief + and bluerail engines operating on 031. I've also been wanting a War Bonnet for a while - so I would definitely see myself jumping in the ring on this one. This is a great value below $200.
My observations/feedback from just seeing it online:
1. The metallic trucks / fuel tank and the matte finish paint on the shell look strange together. Reminds me of how I dress for zoom calls - shirt and coat up top, and shorts on bottom. I would suggest a glossy paint finish on the shell or dull down the bottom half.
2. I agree it would be nice to run it conventionally as @falconservice mentions. Even if the switch was simply between remote and forward only. I can swap in an e-unit or different control system if really needed. I'd rather keep the initial cost down.
3. It does appear that the gears are plastic from one of the pics posted. The drive train should be metal gears and bullet proof. The additional cost for metal gears would be worth it.
4. Rename it as an FP7 as others have mentioned. Casual O Gauge guys would buy it either way because of the paint scheme. Scale-ish guys could sleep easier at night knowing they purchased and FP7 and not an out of scale F3.
5. Two motors - great value
6. Remote control - great - directly competing with Lionchief...volume dial is nice feature
7. Nice variety of phrases
8. Directional lighting - nice feature, great value
9. Rugged stamped-steel frame, Metal trucks with die-cast frame - durability is key
Nice job @Menards Mark and @cabinet Bob
Remember, Menards asked the 200 to review the loco as it is, not as we want it to be.
@JD2035RR posted:Reminds me of how I dress for zoom calls - shirt and coat up top, and shorts on bottom.
Too funny! And here I am thinking that I'm the only one doing that! Shhhhh, don't tell my staff! LOL!
@prrhorseshoecurve posted:For anyone who has this model for testing, can we get a picture comparison of this model vs a Williams/Kusan F7, especially the front nose area!
Just so you know, they will look nothing alike. That F7 has the poorest rendering of the EMD F-unit noses. It’s too straight and two long.
I commented on this previously, but dont know the r&d required to make this engine less jumpy. Without a speed controller/odyssey can the motors be tinkered with without a major cost increase. If it can be I would strongly urge menards to do so. If not, they still have a home run for entry level first time buyers.
@Rusty Traque posted:It goes from 0 to 10,000 Ohms resistance. Seeing the low range would be essentially the same on a bigger pot (say a 100K) I'm not sure if it would effect the low speed/stop operation. The locomotive board could simply shut down after a certain low voltage is reached.
Rusty
I captured these two images from this thread and best as I could, attempted to follow traces. As far as I can tell one side of pot is grounded, negative, and other side goes to positive battery side. So the pot voltage goes from zero to full battery voltage. The chip knows what the full value is at this moment, therefore what half value midpoint should be. As you turn the knob, the chip would know from zero to midpoint OFF is reverse, from midpoint OFF to full voltage is forward. The voltage value would tell it how fast to run loco either way . (follow this??) Appears the chip also does the RF?? Can't read the chip part number.
Bottom line, changing the pot value would/should not change how fast or slow the loco stops.
Apologizes for going off topic technically. Just my 2 cents contribution.
If it's a center detent pot, I doubt one side is grounded. These pots are usually 20% tolerance, so it would be a crap shoot at knowing the voltage drop through the wiper. Since center is "off" it seems like it would need a better reference of the idle state.
@rplst8 posted:If it's a center detent pot, I doubt one side is grounded. These pots are usually 20% tolerance, so it would be a crap shoot at knowing the voltage drop through the wiper. Since center is "off" it seems like it would need a better reference of the idle state.
Good point, but I think this is just an off the shelf linear pot by looks, made by Alpha, so it was my guess as to how the designers might have been thinking to do forward reverse and speed. IC looks a PIC or similar micros.
I just threw this in just as information. Really don't want this thread to veer off into the remote technical weeds (bottom line, it works for what it was designed to do at this price point). Lets keep it to postings that concern loco dimensions, mechanical, speed, failures, design oopsies etc
Feel free to post me off line, my email in profile.
It would be very nice, if Mark or someone would come on to the "O" Gauge Forum and answer questions regarding this new diesel. I'm very excited to see Menards trying their hand at motive power.
@Craftech posted:Thanks Roy,
Did you try:
1. Turn down Marx transformer power fully
2. Turn remote power full Forward
3. Operate loco at various speeds just using the transformer
4. Repeat for Reverse? Have not tried reverse with a long train.
John
That's essentially how I run the loco. Remote all or most of the way up. Varying track power is the only way to get a graceful start and stop with this loco.
I have not disassembled mine yet (too much real work to do) but if the worm gear and the worm wheel are plastic, this loco will die quickly once in general service.
@Daniel Bobrovsky posted:So what does a 10K Pot mean, and what would be better in its place to improve the low speed control?
Thanks
Dan
This ten K pot is probably linear taper.
It would be better with a reverse logarithmic taper pot, if such a thing exists. The first steps off of neutral would have very slight difference, while the farther away from neutral, each click would have a bigger difference. Kind of like variable ratio steering on a car.
That's the cheapest way to fix it, if indeed there is no PIC and associated firm ware to rewrite. If there is a PIC, then rewriting the firm ware is the first thing to try.
Flywheels on the motors would help a lot also.
As I mentioned earlier, if the worm and the worm wheel are plastic, they will not last long with this type of abuse. Putting your mind down to a microscopic level, these severe starts and stops put huge loads on the gears.
It's possible that the design engineers are more familiar with overhead fans, or mood lights, or slot cars, than they are with the physics/dynamics of trains pulling cars around curves and such.
@jim sutter posted:It would be very nice, if Mark or someone would come on to the "O" Gauge Forum and answer questions regarding this new diesel. I'm very excited to see Menards trying their hand at motive power.
I suspect Mark is busy analyzing the feedback from buyers right now. Obviously, some things will change in the design based on that feedback. Frankly, the questions that could be posed here might overwhelm the small design team that’s already neck deep in this project at the moment.
Wow, 12 pages in just a few days, I really like BNSF MATTs 30 minute video and explanation about the new inexpensive offering by Menards, a beautiful to view F3 or F7, diesel. I think Mark, the Menards representative has lots of food for thought on what would make this entry level toy train a successful candidate to model railroaders, or those folks entering the hobby. Quality control on both the engine and the remote. It needs variable speed control and should work in conventional mode. Possibly a better horn, other than those ideas, it should be an inexpensive fix. Definitely look at the packaging. Now, I must say, it’s a beautiful beginning for a company with a lot to offer us train buffs. Thank you BNSF MAtt, great review. Happy Railroading Everyone
The funny (or not so funny) part is that a starter engine from Menard's will be about the same price as the former MTH barn structure now offered by Lionel! 
I just realized something that maybe should have occurred to me earlier. Might Mark and company be under pressure to get modifications designed and implemented in time to have the new locomotive in the stores for the Christmas selling season?
For Menards, the seasonal toy department opens in early October. That’s an aggressive goal, if true.
@Jim R. posted:I just realized something that maybe should have occurred to me earlier. Might Mark and company be under pressure to get modifications designed and implemented in time to have the new locomotive in the stores for the Christmas selling season?
For Menards, the seasonal toy department opens in early October. That’s an aggressive goal, if true.
That’s an interesting thought. They might be using the feedback here to decide whether or not to go through with it at all.
@leapinlarry posted:Wow, 12 pages in just a few days, I really like BNSF MATTs 30 minute video and explanation about the new inexpensive offering by Menards, a beautiful to view F3 or F7, diesel. I think Mark, the Menards representative has lots of food for thought on what would make this entry level toy train a successful candidate to model railroaders, or those folks entering the hobby. Quality control on both the engine and the remote. It needs variable speed control and should work in conventional mode. Possibly a better horn, other than those ideas, it should be an inexpensive fix. Definitely look at the packaging. Now, I must say, it’s a beautiful beginning for a company with a lot to offer us train buffs. Thank you BNSF MAtt, great review. Happy Railroading Everyone
Thank you Larry.
I wonder if one of these 200 pieces will show up on the internet for resale. Than would be a real bummer. I have the highest regards for Menards. I have 10 of there buildings on my layout including the first two they made--the 2 big operating buildings with sound. They have operated flawlessly. I don't think that very many of them were made.
@Jim R. posted:I just realized something that maybe should have occurred to me earlier. Might Mark and company be under pressure to get modifications designed and implemented in time to have the new locomotive in the stores for the Christmas selling season?
For Menards, the seasonal toy department opens in early October. That’s an aggressive goal, if true.
Jim I think to bring it to market for the Christmas season is a very unrealistic goal. I'm thinking spring 2022 at best.
@rrman posted:I captured these two images from this thread and best as I could, attempted to follow traces. As far as I can tell one side of pot is grounded, negative, and other side goes to positive battery side. So the pot voltage goes from zero to full battery voltage. The chip knows what the full value is at this moment, therefore what half value midpoint should be. As you turn the knob, the chip would know from zero to midpoint OFF is reverse, from midpoint OFF to full voltage is forward. The voltage value would tell it how fast to run loco either way . (follow this??) Appears the chip also does the RF?? ***Can't read the chip part number.
Bottom line, changing the pot value would/should not change how fast or slow the loco stops.
Apologizes for going off topic technically. Just my 2 cents contribution.
I took another two photos of the bottom of the PCB and am posting them here along with the original two photos of the top of the PCB which I posted earlier: BTW: The part number is not on the chip. It is blank. It may be on the PCB underneath it.
John
Wow. Missed out on this one. Hope Menards does a re-run soon.
Menards is a Big Box lumber/hardware/
building material, etc, store.
The toy train products are a sideline. I don't believe Menards aspires to be Williams, Weaver, Lionel, or MTH.
I have been thrilled to find rolling stock, and buildings at a pricepoint that makes this hobby affordable to all incomes.
The Menards market strategy of selling trains and hardware is a wonderful nostalgic idea. I find myself checking out the trains every trip for hardware.
I don't own one of these new F3/FP7/%^*.
I will when they restock.
So...my evaluation is based on the response of persons on this forum and personal satisfaction with previous Menards products.
Menards; If you don't change anything on this locomotive...I WILL buy one.
I am not interested in it being TMCC, DCC.
I don't need any Dolby hydrophobic bass sound. No...don't need a proto coupler or smoke ( diesels that smoke need repair).
At this price point this is a nice O gauge toy that has plenty of play value just as it is. Packaging is blister pack and that's been in use by N and HO gauge for years.
My 2 cents is:
don't cater to the "more is better" crowd.
" More is better" COSTS $$$.
I personally like the idea of being able to take my grand daughter and grand son to Menards to buy a basic toy train that doesn't break the bank. At the price this diesel was sold for the kids can handle it themselves and grandpa can teach them the basics and gradually let them play with the more expensive collection.
Lionel cornered the market on the word " Legacy".
Menards is selling toy trains and equipment to help keep this hobby affordable and further the "Legacy" .
So...as is..Menards
WELL DONE!
keep them comming.
I will be sending formal comments to the email requested, but I received my locomotive last night and I must say it is a horrible F3!
However, it is an awesome FP7 Hope to get some play time to run it soon this weekend.
Photos next to my Sunset FP7 Not comparing them other than length and basic details, but dollar for dollar this is a really nice locomotive.
I think Menards may be thinking sets for Christmas.
@GG1 4877 posted:I will be sending formal comments to the email requested, but I received my locomotive last night and I must say it is a horrible F3!
However, it is an awesome FP7
Photos next to my Sunset FP7 Not comparing them other than length and basic details, but dollar for dollar this is a really nice locomotive.
Thank you for the comparison photo's. It reinforces what I've been saying all along that it's an FP7.
If Menards winds up being reluctant to change the labeling, perhaps as someone else suggested, just call it an F-Unit. Now if they could improve on the reported start/stop issues, they'd really have something.
Plus, over the years I've been a model railroader I've seen worse renditions of F-units in other scales.
Rusty
I received mine and, like all others, am very pleasantly surprised by my F....erm...yeah not 3.
It has good play value. The variety of announcements is awesome.
There are 2 areas that really need improvement....
The horn is horrible, since there's only a short anemic beep no matter how long you depress the horn button that sounds more like someone stepped on the dog's chewed up squeaky toy).
There is a definite lack of speed control. It's stop, jump to speed, and very little variation thereafter (at least on mine when it's pulling cars). I've found myself looking to see if any cars came off the track after the rather abrupt starts/stops.
The engine was able to pull a 10 car consist on a 4% grade, so that's decent power!
Picked my "F Unit" up today at my local Menards! Here are my pics showing the same issues many are reporting about scuffs on the top of the shell, remote battery tabs needed adjustment. The Horn is weak and should get an adjustment. But if you tap it quickly repeatedly you can get a sort of continuous long blast. But I think it could be easily and inexpensively fixed based on everyone's comments. and I would like to see better light diffusion behind the number plate, another fix I don't think would be a costly change.
But for the price I am extremely happy with the unit overall. It runs like a champ, I was happy with Bell and Crew talk. I was also very happy with the engine sounds stepping up and down with the throttle control. My throttle response with the control was very good, I could notice the speed changes with each notch change. And if you bring the the unit to a stop by letting it slow down to the last notch, I didn't notice much of an issue with the sudden stop causing a derailment. Also I throttled back on the track power and by doing that you can really get it to slow down well and good without much an issue. Yes a flywheel would be a great add, but at the price range, I can deal with it just fine.
I too wouldn't mind continuing the red paint on the top side vents, but maybe its increased cost to paint partial, so again for about 130 bucks I can deal!! Would be happy to buy many more engines at the rate Mendards is progressing, I think this is great!
I received my unit this evening and run some quick tests on it. Thanks to everyone here that got theirs before me I was prepared for the remote not working and could fix it right away. Hadn't seen too many comments on if it could handle grades so I ran it on my 042 loop that has a 3% grade on it. All my runs were done with my MRC 601 set to 10 volts on the meter. This was chosen as initial testing showed it would run well at this setting without too violent of starts and stops. I did not see any slow downs or speed ups on my 3% grades. Overall I think Menard's has a winner here!
Here is a quick video of my initial runs, the video seems a little jerky, but it actually ran very smooth.
@wild mary posted:i see no problem with running it "CONVENTIONAL". You simply set the remote "+" to "MAX" and vary the track voltage via your transformer. Am I wrong?
Could one of our BETA testers confirm whether or not the loco can be run conventional from the transformer by setting the remote yo MAX? Thanks guys.
My transformer starts at 5 volts so the loco may creep a little, but yes it does work this way. The transformer will not change directions or operate the bell or horn though, still need the remote for that.
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