11x11 layout plans

https://www.railmodeller.com/home-railmodeller.html

Found it, Thank you, I will look into it. I would still like to see some ideas from the forum for help though, since I am not good at planning and getting it to drawing.

Can you share with us what your engine roster consists of? It would help to know the minimum radius requirements of your fleet so a usable plan can be developed.

Do you have any must be included accessories?

Yes, most of my engine stock is common MTH engines, that are o36 curves. I will eventually in time get some bigger (longer) engines. I do have some large accessories, such as MTH gas station and Lionel saw mill and such.  Many buildings, but will use them when I add 2nd level to make a town.  Thank you.

Hi again, I found a layout on Trains.com that I liked for the 11 x 11 layout I would like.  I want to expand it on, it fit track to curve back up to 1 main line as shown in my dotted lines. Could anyone play around with this on SCARM to see what other tracks/ switches I would need to complete the circle , or maybe some suggestions.  I also need to ad a MTH 30" arch bridge 40-1031 and 2 10" girder bridges 40-1032 connected. I can't use SCARM since I have Mac.. I know there is a MAC program, but you only get 50 pcs of track for free.  Thanks

Here are 2 options. There's a bit of a discrepancy with the O-54 switches in SCARM that I'm trying to reconcile. Atlas shows the switch with a 4.5" (?) straight attached and SCARM doesn't, so I'm trying to find out if the extension can be detached. The photos you posted have it attached, so I had to add it in SCARM to get the designs to match. I then expanded the size to 11X11. The Blue tracks in the photo show one way coming off the right-hand spur. The Gold tracks show another way (like your drawing) coming off the left-hand spur and crossing over the right. Obviously, both need more than the addition you drew. Because of the O-54 discrepancy, things don't connect in SCARM using the default tolerances, but should if you decide to built it. I did make a couple of changes. For some reason, the author had 1/4 O45 and 1/2 O-54 curves on the right loops where full curves would have fit, so I added full curves. Even though you can't use it, I included the SCARM file in case someone else wants to play with it.

Thank you ! I see your point with the problem on the switches which needs to be addressed to make it all fit. I do think I want to go with this build and I like the gold track version although I will loose the 2 extra sidings or put in 2 more switch tracks, but it looks more balanced that way.  I have no problem with adding  more addition since this area would all be opened anyway, so I could go over to 6' instead of 5'. If you have the time would you be able to fix this, and provide the extra track list that I would need ? I would appreciate all the help I can get with this new project, I am just so bad at the design process and to know what looks good and will work.  Thank you ! and anyone else has any ideas I am opened to suggestions.  Best, Charles

I went in a different direction than Dave.  I went for an Around-the-Walls design. Along the walls are 2 ft wide tables.  In the open sides the tables are 4 ft wide. The widths where chosen to allow for easy access to all parts of the layout.  Access to the 5 ft by 5 ft center is via a 2 ft wide passage that could be crossed by lift-up, lift-out, drop-down, duck-under, swing-out...

There are two loops for continuous running and a yard with a lead letting 3 people operate.  At the top is a combination crossover/passing siding.  There's plenty of room for accessories.  If more table area is desired the table widths can be increased.  While the layout can be operated in the center, I envision most of the time the operators and viewers will be on the outside looking in.

Jan

Thank you, nice layout , I just am a little undecided about the access to the middle part I know there is a post about the lift up on the tracks but I think there would be an issue since the access tracks are curves, and not just straight tracks for a better contact. I maybe wrong on that, just my thought, and yes, I think I would operate on the outside.  Thanks I will consider this also.

IMO, straight or curved tracks don’t make much, if any, real difference. Some folks lift the entire track and let it extend past the lift up platform, others cut the track where the lift up meets. Curved tracks are just cut on an angle. If the platform is on an angle with straight tracks, they can be cut on an angle too.

The O-54 switch does indeed include a 4.5" straight that can be removed if needed. In this case, I added the 4.5 in SCARM to make things match the original photos

I’ll rework the connecting tracks without the crosses and redesign the right-hand spurs.

Thanks Dave great

The 2’ wide areas will be easy to reach and add scenery. JohnA

Thanks John for the input, true it would be easier access with the 2' wide, I am just a little concerned with the lift up for the tracks

I used FasTrack in my design as I feel it is the most popular for none 3-rail scale layouts.  I'm not sure if MTH is still making track.  You mentioned haveing a MTH bridge.  Double track or single?  Has anyone used it with FasTrack?

Jan

Hi Jan I have a single bridge with 2 girder bridges, I used it with my old layout and used Atlas 3 rail track.  I am sure you can use FasTrack with it.  I like the look of the Atlas and it fits better on a layout since it is not as wide.  I did like your design with the the along the walls, I am just turn on the entrance way with making a pull up/down access, just wondering if I the skill to make it lol

Best Charles

I have redone the plan using Atlas track (plus some additions).  Atlas is my choice for track system.  There are no cut sections.  I improved operations and storage in the yard and reduced mainline track spacing.

I would suggest that you start a new thread on the "Simplest Way to Cross an Access".

Jan

Thanks Jan, I  like it especially with the "no cut". and the bigger yard storage. I do intend on running 2 + trains at a time and do see that your plan allows for a better run with compared to my original plan, but   I am going to compare what Dave's finished layout looks like and see which fits my needs the most. Always I need to see what track and switches I already have and see what I need. I will definitely start a new post on the access situation and see the ideas on that.  Best, Charles

Charles,

Last changes plus parts list.  Remember you can modify the dimensions of the center viewing area to increase table top area for scenery, etc.

Jan

Thank you very much on this ! , Given me a lot to think about to use. I will adjust to my likings for the scenery and such.

Charles,

Here's what I came up with using the original space and design. As you can see, I wasn't able to do much with it.

I wasn't happy with it, so I decided to try something with Jan's around-the-room approach, Unlike Jan suing O-36/O-45 curves/switches, I incorporated the design from your photos and retained the O-45/O54 curves/switches. However, unlike the original, it allows 2 trains to run on separate loops; O-54 on blue loop, O-45 on both loops. I tried O-72 curves on the blue loop, but they didn't fit. One train can be running on the blue loop unattended while another works all the gold spurs.

Anyway, I reconfigured the entry to eliminate the curve on the lift-out. I also added an example of a simple lift-out (right side of photo). The greens are the decking, the browns are framing, the orange are cleats and the gray are alignment pins. The 3D photo show what it would look like. The pins in the 3D Photo would actually be hidden.

Wow, came out really nice, you and Jan have worked out a nice layout for me, considering the foot print I had to work with. Thanks also for the diagram that should give me a good guide to follow and looks better with the straight track.  Could supply me with the SCARM parts list for this with the new O45/O54 switches, I couldn't see them in the diagram as to where each was.  Thank you, and Jan, so much for the help  on this. Hopefully I can get it going in the weeks to come. I have a bunch of Atlas track and I think a few O54 switches on hand so I will have to see what else I will need.  Ka Ching, Ka Ching.  I am sure there will be more questions ahead lol.  Best, Charles

Will do as soon as I get a chance. I meant to do that and forgot.

No problem, whenever you can and Thank you again !

One more time!  Now with O54 and O45 curves.  I left the O36 switches in the storage tracks as I figure only a small locomotive would enter..

Jan

Thank you Jan

Charles, Jan and Dave have helped you with some nice options. I'm kind of wishing that I had also reached out for help here when planning my layout, but I am stubborn and independent and always want to do it all myself (with colored pencils on graph paper and engineer scale) even if the end result isn't as professional or I'm kicking myself for putting in access hatches. Too late for me but I'm looking forward to seeing your build. Good luck.

Mikki

Thank You , me too. Sometimes it is hard to ask for help, it is just our human nature at times. I wasn't proud on this one, I am very bad at planning a layout , where to start, mainlines, loops, curves to accept your locomotive size etc.. So I knew I needed help lol. Besides, all the people on here are GREAT always willing to help a fellow train junkie lol, let it be track planning or wiring questions and such. Most of all, don't say it's too late for you, many of them have changed their layouts and started new ones or made adjustments including my self and you can to. Best of luck  to you !

Here are some photos that should help. Let me know if you need any changes, etc.

Fantastic , Thank you for all the help, I know that Jan mentioned that he kept the 036  switches in the storage tracks in his plan am I able to do that with this or just go with the 045/054 switches, only reason I am saying is because I have some 036 switches on hand, maybe to save some $ in buying more 045/054.  Just a thought   Thank you again

Not Seasoned yet

Have you considered having a way to reverse trains, adding a wye or adding a turntable and adding operating accessories?  These options would give you more thing to operate and keep interest up on operating your layout.   Most of the suggested track plans do have few multiple trains and sidings, that were on your short list of wants..

Charlie

Thank you, yes I have a lot of operating accessaries to use I used to have a layout before so I purchased items I can use on this new one.

Best, Charles

How about a turntable?

I've shown two possible positions for the turntable with an eye on access.  The upper left exceeds the three foot reach constraint.  Both turntables are reachable from the yard.  I also maximize the Arrival/Departure track in the yard (the longest siding) to increase the maximum train length.

Jan

Very cool, I thought about a turn table but never thought one would fit in my size layout, thought that was only for the big boys. You have given me great ideas and costly ones too LOL

One needs to dream.  You don't need to do everything at once.  If you have kids, the Christmas equates to merger and acquisition time.  Atlas makes controller rails that work with Lionel action cars.

Jan

Here's a Wye, but I don't like a switch on the lift-out, though that's just a personal opinion, it can work with extra connections for power. A train can turn, but then has to back through the Wye to turn back.

Here's a TT in the same space just for turning engines.

@Jan posted:

How about a turntable?

I've shown two possible positions for the turntable with an eye on access.  The upper left exceeds the three foot reach constraint.  Both turntables are reachable from the yard.  I also maximize the Arrival/Departure track in the yard (the longest siding) to increase the maximum train length.

Jan

Jan, your ideas and design is just the way I should have designed my layout. I’m happy with my recently completed layout but this is something for the future if I decide to redesign. I know the overall is 11x11, what are the individual perimeter sizes? Are you able to show this in a block per foot design like Dave has on his without the turntables?

Thanks, Gene

Thanks, No, I don't like a switch on the lift up either. So would the turn table be best for turning train around or does something else need to change. I am getting some confusion on my end to understand what is the method.

Gene, had to hunt for the option.  Dave uses Snip to capture image.

Jan

Jan, I use Snip because I can capture the entire screen, including rulers, etc., or just sections and it can also capture videos.

Charles, turntables only turn engines. If you have the space, you can turn a full train through a Wye, but it’s a 3-point process; go through one leg of the Wye, then back through the other leg, then go forward in the opposite direction. You can just turn an engine through a Wye too, but you then need to be able to runaround to the other end of the train to go in the opposite direction. If you don’t care what direction the engine faces, you can use a runaround to go in the opposite direction. It doesn’t work too work well with steam engines and train with a caboose.

For example, in my design you can park a train on the inner oval, then runaround to the rear and pull the train in the opposite direction. In Jan’s, you can do the same thing with any of the sidings.

Gotcha,  so the Wye is used to turn train with cars in another direction.  Thanks

@Jan posted:

Gene, had to hunt for the option.  Dave uses Snip to capture image.

Jan

Jan, that’s exactly what I needed, thank you.

Gene

Yes, but you need enough room and that would require changes to the design. I didn’t look at other possible locations because where I put it is the only place without such changes. My thing about a switch on a lift out is that it needs wiring that can be disconnected. However, it could be changed to a lift-up with one end hinged, that way wiring stays connected. The advantage is that one end keeps things aligned a bit more than a lift out.

So gentlemen, what is my final verdict on my plan, I like the straight tracks for the lift up, Is the "WYE"  to be used in the final drawing, which is fine by me, I don't know about adding a turn table as of yet, possibly to add later. So Dan, Jan,  the final drawing showing straight tracks for the lift, and the added wye and adding a turn table later on is what I want to go with I will just need an update part list for wye size.  Thank you again, sorry if I asked for changing too many times. Best, Charles

All, here's the final design for my version of the 11 x 11 layout for those that have been following this thread,

I've shown the perimeter incorporating the turntable and also the proposed lift-out section.  The table top consists of 1/2" plywood topped with 1/2" Homasote and would incorporate the area of the lift out.  There would be no modifications to the underlining frame.  The lift-out would be then be cut out of top insuring a perfect fit and alignment.  Its shape is rectangular with the upper right corner clipped along the joint of the curves.

Note that there are no 90-degree inside corners.  The triangle inserts serve to move the curves farther from the table edge.

Jan

In the past I have used 3/4 ply with rubber type roadbed under track and it seems to work well. I did like the straight track on the lift up my guess is it really does not matter. Best, Charles

Not Seasoned yet

Yes a Turntable can be added to a small layout.  The link below is to my layout write up with a $10 homemade turntable.  The layout also had four reversing loops and a wye and can operate 5 trains with two, 2 trains per track systems.  The layout has an L shaped form and fits inside a 12ft X12ft area.  This compact layout uses 027 track and 34 - 027 Marx switches but you may find some useful ideas for your wider diameter curves.

A table of contents is on Page one, at the bottom of Post 1.  The TT building post 9 is on page one.

https://ogrforum.com/topic/evo...fties-era-027-layout

Charlie

Charles, one thing to consider is where you want to put your bridges. The design before I added the Wye assumed the 30" MTH bridge would be the lift out/up. Unfortunately, you can't put a switch or curve on such a bridge. Even more unfortunate, I don't see where you can put bridges in either design other than the entry point because both designs have so many tracks close together. Obviously, you could add more bridges, but you'd have to consider how that will look and how to landscape it that makes sense.

Then I noticed the lift "up" idea had a potential problem. A lift-up usually needs either the rails at the joint cut at an angle or a hinge where the hinge point is at the top of the rail. You'd have look through the Mark Boyce thread, and others, to see what hinge mechanism he/they used. Obviously, the lift "out" is the easiest to build and there are ways to avoid having to unplug wires.

In any case, I modified the design a bit so the switch is not at the edge of the lift out/up. I also changed a few things to make some areas smoother. I need to recolor-code the small fitters and then I'll post updated photos and parts list.

One other note is that if you reconfigure the interior of the inner loop, it could include a turntable with whiskers instead of the dual spurs with crossovers. You could also keep the Wye if you wanted. I'll also work on that.

Dan, eventually I want to do a partial 2end level with either a mountain or town on it I can incorporate a bridge there, or just have a 2end level over bottom tracks with a bridge, time will tell , anyway it is only a single lane bridge but long with the 2 girders attached.  Yes, the lift up is going to need a lot of research on my part.   I have been looking a Youtube for some videos.  Thanks

Charles, here are 3 options. Please note the changes to the inner oval spurs on #2 and #3 and the turntable configurations.

Option 1 with the WYE:

Option 2 with the Wye and a turntable:

Option 3 with a turntable, no Wye:

Great, so nice of you to provide these, at least there is a lot of options for me Thank You!