Our friends at Lionel gave me an extended look at the new Vision Line Niagara in action this morning. This was posted live via our Facebook page, but I wanted to upload it to Youtube so everyone here could get a look at it. Hope you enjoy seeing this great new locomotive in action. Also be sure to check out Notch6.com for extended coverage of this announcement along with coverage of the MTH 2018 Volume 1 catalog.
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I got to see it today as well as talk to Ryan(mostly) and chat with Dave just a bit. Hopefully the price isn't too scary. Great video.
It is a great engine!
We won't know the price until it's in the 2018 Vol II catalog in the spring? We got a long wait for this one.
Pretty awesome, I don't know what folks are complaining about.
Severn posted:Pretty awesome, I don't know what folks are complaining about.
I think some people have simple emotional reactions and are therefore very easy to please, while others think much more carefully about value when they are being asked to spend say $2k on a toy. To each his own. I haven't decided yet which camp I'm in.
Stupid question - does this thing have whistle steam? I see the pop off valves smoking. I see the typical anemic smoke output from the stack. I hear the whistle blowing repeatedly - but couldn't detect any smoke from it. Thanks.
PJB posted:Stupid question - does this thing have whistle steam? I see the pop off valves smoking. I see the typical anemic smoke output from the stack. I hear the whistle blowing repeatedly - but couldn't detect any smoke from it. Thanks.
Yes, it does although it’s been reported on another thread that they are moving the whistle smoke outlet further away from the stack.
More importantly, bear in mind that the Orange Hall at York is actually one of the worst places to try to demonstrate smoke effects because of all the air turbulence created by the aircon/ventilation system. That’s why you see the smoke being blown off to the side and generally not forming any sort of plumes.
What I actually see in this demo and in the vids of the new AC-9 is a considerable increase in output from Lionel’s Legacy smoke units over those from, say, 2016 issue engines. I agree that those earlier ones were anemic compared to some earlier Lionel models let alone MTH but something has definitely been improved.
Even in the turbulence of the York Hall the pop off valve effect is producing copious amounts of smoke. Whether you like that or not is another matter.
Smoke in the Pop off and tender, that's neat. Hope they do that stuff on others in the future.
Well I spent the time and looked the video over. The best feature announced was the hissing sound. Unfortunately I could not discern any difference in the drawbar sound/effect that was being demonstrated. For now I'll attribute that to the quality of the video and not the model as the video was very poorly done in my opinion.
Hopefully the production version will have a MUCH better stack smoke effect than what was being displayed. It is sooo poor and sooo shameful not to have a real chuffer at this stage of the game. MTH has had a lock on this feature for over a decade now. I simply do not understand why Lionel cannot get this basic feature right!
I agree steam chest effects would be nice and if it too could be turned on and off at will. Overall not being at the Lionel booth and looking at the prototype model it is hard to speak to the detailing of the locomotive.
From the comments by the Lionel staff, it seems they were overjoyed to simply have a running model ready for the show. It's tough to try and get production intent features up and running by due dates well in advance of production for demonstrations to potential customers.
It will be interesting to see what other "Easter Eggs" will be had once the model is introduced.
That front number plate should be either solid blue or black (both top and bottom sections). Not RED!!!
Notch 6 posted:Our friends at Lionel gave me an extended look at the new Vision Line Niagara in action this morning. This was posted live via our Facebook page, but I wanted to upload it to Youtube so everyone here could get a look at it. Hope you enjoy seeing this great new locomotive in action. Also be sure to check out Notch6.com for extended coverage of this announcement along with coverage of the MTH 2018 Volume 1 catalog.
Thanks for the video, but did you shoot it with a flip phone? HAHA, Its 2017 , we have 4K TVs and this is in 240P? Come on. I can hardly see any details.
No roof vents, or access covers on the top just in front of the cab roof? Skid plate? Just asking, my 3rdrail Niagara has all those, I know this is a production sample but I hope these details make it to the final version.
SandJam posted:Notch 6 posted:Our friends at Lionel gave me an extended look at the new Vision Line Niagara in action this morning. This was posted live via our Facebook page, but I wanted to upload it to Youtube so everyone here could get a look at it. Hope you enjoy seeing this great new locomotive in action. Also be sure to check out Notch6.com for extended coverage of this announcement along with coverage of the MTH 2018 Volume 1 catalog.
Thanks for the video, but did you shoot it with a flip phone? HAHA, Its 2017 , we have 4K TVs and this is in 240P? Come on. I can hardly see any details.
I got claustrophobic trying to watch the video. Turned it off real quick! Looks like they would have known better than to film it that way!
superwarp1 posted:No roof vents, or access covers on the top just in front of the cab roof? Skid plate? Just asking, my 3rdrail Niagara has all those, I know this is a production sample but I hope these details make it to the final version.
I was thinking the same thing after watching the video, maybe its prototypical. Also, does this engine have a boiler top dynamo and with all those pop ups blasting as its running wouldn't the fireman be booted off the engine?? IMO, that toy like tender smoke is just plain silly.
Joe
JC642 posted:superwarp1 posted:No roof vents, or access covers on the top just in front of the cab roof? Skid plate? Just asking, my 3rdrail Niagara has all those, I know this is a production sample but I hope these details make it to the final version.
I was thinking the same thing after watching the video, maybe its prototypical. Also, does this engine have a boiler top dynamo
No. The dynamo is/was mounted down low on the Engineer's side, on the front portion of the trailing truck.
and with all those pop ups blasting as its running wouldn't the fireman be booted off the engine??
ABSOLUTELY!!!! Besides, all the safety valves do NOT lift at once anyway.
IMO, that toy like tender smoke is just plain silly.
Oh well.
Joe
Notch 6 posted:"Thanks for the video, but did you shoot it with a flip phone? HAHA, Its 2017 , we have 4K TVs and this is in 240P? Come on. I can hardly see any details.
I got claustrophobic trying to watch the video. Turned it off real quick! Looks like they would have known better than to film it that way!"
You know it gets really old reading crap like this. If you want to develop the content / pay for the equipment, travel to the shows, etc. Be my guest. The video was ported over from Facebook live, which does constrain the quality / format that we can shoot in from the equipment that we have. Not that either one of you have any clue how that works. Bottom line for both of you is to put your money where your mouth is. If you want it done better, get out here and do it yourself.
they could have just turned the phone sideways!!!!!!
I enjoyed the video and for those of us that live so far away from York that we can only dream of going, its nice to have a report that allows us to see what is going on and hear from the Lionel Staff. What got me was the switch tower that looked on fire.
Hancock52 posted:PJB posted:Stupid question - does this thing have whistle steam? I see the pop off valves smoking. I see the typical anemic smoke output from the stack. I hear the whistle blowing repeatedly - but couldn't detect any smoke from it. Thanks.
Yes, it does although it’s been reported on another thread that they are moving the whistle smoke outlet further away from the stack.
More importantly, bear in mind that the Orange Hall at York is actually one of the worst places to try to demonstrate smoke effects because of all the air turbulence created by the aircon/ventilation system. That’s why you see the smoke being blown off to the side and generally not forming any sort of plumes.
What I actually see in this demo and in the vids of the new AC-9 is a considerable increase in output from Lionel’s Legacy smoke units over those from, say, 2016 issue engines. I agree that those earlier ones were anemic compared to some earlier Lionel models let alone MTH but something has definitely been improved.
Even in the turbulence of the York Hall the pop off valve effect is producing copious amounts of smoke. Whether you like that or not is another matter.
Thanks for the reply!
Ok, I did notice the turbulence but also saw thst I could see smoke from the pop off valves and stack but not the whistle. Maybe the hole placement will help that.
I hope you're right about steam effects improvement. For fear of being stoned by the Lionel purists, I bought 2 VLBBs from 2 different dealers and neither has smoke output anywhere near the version Lionel first showed. The cynic in me sometines wonders if "ringers" are sometimes used to best display certain features.
On balance, I like the new pop off steam effect, I'm confused by the tender steam effect, I am keeping my fingers crossed that Lionel listens to it's high end customers and replaces the tender steam with cylinder steam (or even the steam effect from the VL Challenger where steam just automatically emanated from under the cab), and hope Lionel keeps trying to push the envelope - but changes it's philosophy a little so that quality is an absolute first priority, even if it means delays.
Will cost more than the ESE set and sounds the exact same with some added smoke features? Don't think this one will be for me.
Surefire posted:Will cost more than the ESE set and sounds the exact same
Well, shouldn't ALL New York Central passenger steam locomotives with the same Nathan whistle, sound the same?
with some added smoke features? Don't think this one will be for me.
Hot Water posted:Surefire posted:Will cost more than the ESE set and sounds the exact same
Well, shouldn't ALL New York Central passenger steam locomotives with the same Nathan whistle, sound the same?
with some added smoke features? Don't think this one will be for me.
Reissue of model, reissue of sounds, and some added smoke effects for a Vision line product is disappointing.
Surefire posted:Hot Water posted:Surefire posted:Will cost more than the ESE set and sounds the exact same
Well, shouldn't ALL New York Central passenger steam locomotives with the same Nathan whistle, sound the same?
with some added smoke features? Don't think this one will be for me.
Reissue of model, reissue of sounds, and some added smoke effects for a Vision line product is disappointing.
I guess that is ONE opinion. However, I prefer to have all my NYC steam locomotives sound reasonably prototypically the same. But then, that's MY opinion.
Hot Water posted:Surefire posted:Hot Water posted:Surefire posted:Will cost more than the ESE set and sounds the exact same
Well, shouldn't ALL New York Central passenger steam locomotives with the same Nathan whistle, sound the same?
with some added smoke features? Don't think this one will be for me.
Reissue of model, reissue of sounds, and some added smoke effects for a Vision line product is disappointing.
I guess that is ONE opinion. However, I prefer to have all my NYC steam locomotives sound reasonably prototypically the same. But then, that's MY opinion.
If it was being done under the normal Legacy banner I wouldn't care. The fact that so many already released things are being put into a Vision branded product is where my disappointment comes from. If the sound set is the most correct so be it. I just expected a newly tooled locomotive with more originality.
The 2-10-10-2 was killer.
bigdodgetrain posted:Notch 6 posted:"Thanks for the video, but did you shoot it with a flip phone? HAHA, Its 2017 , we have 4K TVs and this is in 240P? Come on. I can hardly see any details.
I got claustrophobic trying to watch the video. Turned it off real quick! Looks like they would have known better than to film it that way!"
You know it gets really old reading crap like this. If you want to develop the content / pay for the equipment, travel to the shows, etc. Be my guest. The video was ported over from Facebook live, which does constrain the quality / format that we can shoot in from the equipment that we have. Not that either one of you have any clue how that works. Bottom line for both of you is to put your money where your mouth is. If you want it done better, get out here and do it yourself.
they could have just turned the phone sideways!!!!!!
It truly is amazing how much better a video looks when you turn your phone 90 degrees to record it. Having played with video, I know you can't blame this on Facebook live. Just hold your phone in landscape when you record video and you will end up with a better quality video visually.
But it was neat to see the force coupler in action. I really hope that comes to more locomotives. It's a pity this thing won't run on my O36 track.
Hot Water posted:Surefire posted:Hot Water posted:Surefire posted:Will cost more than the ESE set and sounds the exact same
Well, shouldn't ALL New York Central passenger steam locomotives with the same Nathan whistle, sound the same?
with some added smoke features? Don't think this one will be for me.
Reissue of model, reissue of sounds, and some added smoke effects for a Vision line product is disappointing.
I guess that is ONE opinion. However, I prefer to have all my NYC steam locomotives sound reasonably prototypically the same. But then, that's MY opinion.
Remember when the demo-model of the ESE for 2015 had the same whistle as the Vision Challenger? These sounds aren't guaranteed to be the actual production sounds.
I personally would've preferred the ESE Hudson to have the same whistle sound as the Vision 700E, but I still think the one we got on the production models is still appropriate.
If Lionel's going all out on the Niagara for the Vision Line, I think they should try to make the whistle a Legacy quillible version of the CC2 run. Despite its flaws, you can't deny the sounds on the CC2 model were great.
Mikado 4501 posted:Hot Water posted:Surefire posted:Hot Water posted:Surefire posted:Will cost more than the ESE set and sounds the exact same
Well, shouldn't ALL New York Central passenger steam locomotives with the same Nathan whistle, sound the same?
with some added smoke features? Don't think this one will be for me.
Reissue of model, reissue of sounds, and some added smoke effects for a Vision line product is disappointing.
I guess that is ONE opinion. However, I prefer to have all my NYC steam locomotives sound reasonably prototypically the same. But then, that's MY opinion.
Remember when the demo-model of the ESE for 2015 had the same whistle as the Vision Challenger? These sounds aren't guaranteed to be the actual production sounds.
I personally would've preferred the ESE Hudson to have the same whistle sound as the Vision 700E, but I still think the one we got on the production models is still appropriate.
If Lionel's going all out on the Niagara for the Vision Line, I think they should try to make the whistle a Legacy quillible version of the CC2 run. Despite its flaws, you can't deny the sounds on the CC2 model were great.
your video reminds me of the whistle's sounds in my older engine
(go to about 48 seconds in)
Can the safeties be turned off by remote like the generator on the GG1? Because you can probably turn it off by switch
Derek,
I want to say thank you for the video. Some of us can't get to York or will probably never be able to get there. I don't care if the video is sideways or upside down at least we got to see it and see the features. Derek was not trying to win an academy award, he was just simply excited about a project and showing us that can't get there a view of it. The so called "experts" of everything that always pop up on this site really bring down the hobby. I suggest just ignore them.
Keep up the good work Derek.
There's a striking difference between constructive suggestions/critiques and making yourself feel important and smart by putting down other people. Derek's trying to explain that, but apparently is too subtle for some . So let me add my thanks to the useful and collegial approach that Derek has taken to his role in the hobby. As for the chirping of self-appointed guardians of my way or the highway.....oh well.
I would much more interested in a synthetic non-stoichiometric smoke (black smoke). One of the reasons I never run my steam locomotives smoke feature. That would be a nice Vision Line aim.
There seems to be a pretty good hand on synthetic steam simulation.
superwarp1 posted:No roof vents, or access covers on the top just in front of the cab roof? Skid plate? Just asking, my 3rdrail Niagara has all those, I know this is a production sample but I hope these details make it to the final version.
That production sample is actually the Niagara Lionel produced back in 2000 for the century club series. It simply has new internals with all the whiz bang vl stuff
The deck plate is missing because many of them snapped off and crumbled to pieces. The hinges are still there if you view Alex 's pictures showing the cab.
Going by Lionels past efforts regarding reissues, tooling and detail will be identical to the 2000 version.
There are plenty of photos and video of the original 6-28069 Lionel Niagara to better judge the detail.
Notch 6 posted:"Thanks for the video, but did you shoot it with a flip phone? HAHA, Its 2017 , we have 4K TVs and this is in 240P? Come on. I can hardly see any details.
I got claustrophobic trying to watch the video. Turned it off real quick! Looks like they would have known better than to film it that way!"
You know it gets really old reading crap like this. If you want to develop the content / pay for the equipment, travel to the shows, etc. Be my guest. The video was ported over from Facebook live, which does constrain the quality / format that we can shoot in from the equipment that we have. Not that either one of you have any clue how that works. Bottom line for both of you is to put your money where your mouth is. If you want it done better, get out here and do it yourself.
I was just pulling your chain. I said thanks for the video (did you not see that)
But just FYI you don't need any special equipment except a modern smart phone and spending a few min to upload directly to you tube instead of Facebook.
'I was going to be at York, but had a family death unexpectedly, so next time I will do it.
Finally got the chance to watch the entire video and, it's true, the quality does suck. But frankly, so what? It's good enough to see this new offering and all its cool features and sounds. And, wow, I hope the "Easter Eggs" include cylinder steam!
So, to recap: on the one hand, Lionel is pushing the envelope with yet another apparently outstanding Vision offering, and we have folks who took the trouble to photograph or film it and then post those images here. On the other hand, we have the sunshine crowd that can only find happiness in complaining about the Lionel locomotive selection or features, the anticipated price, and the video quality. ...
Thanks Derek,
I would like to see Dave and Ryan do a video of this back at Concord so we can see the smoke effects better(less air movement like there in the hall). A couple things I would like to see changed would be the whistle smoke actually coming out the whistle itself. The water fill effect I think should be you hear the sound of the scoop lowering and taking on water for a bit and then the smoke effect of it being full and overflowing. I'm sure they will have tweaks on the delivered model compared to this sample engine.
Doug
this thing must use a bottle of smoke fluid overtime you run it
Thanks Derek.
Whats the saying “ some people would complain if you gave them $500 in $1 bills. “
While the engine is not my cup of tea the new features are.
I think the force coupling is the best new idea. The additional smoke effects are also nice and add quite bit a realism to it. I hope these ideas filter down through the rest of the catalog over time.
Geeze! Turn the phone sideways - use the aspect ratio of the viewing screen!
C'mon Derek!
Thanks to all who posted videos. Unbelievable what can be done with electronics. It’s too bad there’s so much negative comments. R&D cost a tremendous amount of $$. Lionel & MTH (and others) take a huge risk, anyone who has owned/operated their own company can appreciate this.
again Thanks
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