19' x 25' folded dogbone layout planning

"Any thoughts?  Is this cramming too much into too small a space?"

In a nutshell, YES!!  You are leaving very little space for doing anything but running and storing trains.  AND, you will HATE having to climb on or over your yard to fix a derailment on that upper-level siding near the back wall.  Finally, your yard looks like a small group of passing sidings (to store trains which will not change much) rather than a yard where you will actually assemble consists, and your yard leads are not long enough to pull long groups of cars without fouling your mainline.

Of course, what you are reading is all personal opinion, but I think this plan will cause you to lose interest quite quickly.

Chuck

I say go for it.  Looks awesome.

Consider lengthening your yard by moving ALL of the switches back into the entrance and exit curves.  Using curved switches will drastically  increase the siding length!!

Think of a Ross 4 way switch but only made with curved switches.  One end all left hand curved switches the other end all right hand curved switches.

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IMO, I would not be concerned about "Fouling the main".  This is a display layout.  It seems that your interest is in running whole trains with ability of swapping out complete trains to run them alternately.  You have accomplished your goal with this plan.  Just think about making the sidings longer.

It's hard to lose interest when the trains are dancing and singing.   Right now it is just a drawing.  Once it comes to life it will be a whole new world.  I built a large RR with quite a few service spurs and  industrial yards however I find the most enjoyment in just running a lot of trains.

Should you have an abundance of cars seriously consider a large wrap around pull through subway staging yard.

There can NEVER be enough storage tracks.  Swapping trains back and forth off shelves to run on the  RR, in my world =  .

I find that the only action my shelf stored trains receive is an occasional dusting.

Is your 6" rise including allowance for support?  If you want 6" from top of rail to top of rail there won't be enough room for a train to pass under. What you need is 6", probably closer to 6 1/2", between the top of the rail and anything above it. If you have plywood and track bed those need to be accounted for. You may find that you need to go up closer to 7 or 8", or more. If you have 400" to use for transition I think you'll be fine. You may end up around 2.5 or 3% but that is still very workable and will look good as well.

I like your plan for the most part but just for the sake of thoroughness have you considered having the raised portion along that back wall and on the left side? Maybe even move the yard to the second level. Your mains could then run under the second level and add a sense of space as a train disappears and re-appears later down the line.

I agree with PRR1950 about the lack of space for scenery. It is not a bad thing if that is what you want but now is the time to be sure.  I'm not so concerned about reaching a train on the back route as much as how I would work on those hard to reach areas. Most of us have to make compromises here and there due to the limitations of the space we have. I realized I didn't have the dimensions to accommodate a yard or a turntable (nor do I plan on having the cars/engines to fill those) so I've planned on some hidden staging tracks and sidings, enough to park 20-30 feet of cars.

I'm not knocking fastrack, but it is limiting what you can do design-wise. If you can use the curved switches as Tom pointed out you can add more length to some of your leads.

Thanks everyone for the suggestions.

Chuck and Dan - I agree very little space for scenery  - I'm re-thinking this.  I'll need to work the final track height rail to rail with my tallest car.  I guessed at 6".  Dan - the outer and inner loops are raised +6 throughout the entire layout.  Everything else runs in the valley.

Tom - your head is where mine is - I've filled my shelves.  I don't run what's on them, and I want to, but taking them off and moving them to the floor is a PITA.  I only have one subway train, so I'd like the underground visual with one or two station stops and "wrap around" the underneath yard is what I was thinking,  too.

I know I WILL NOT use fastrack.  While it's great for where it is on the floor, I agree it is limiting to moving to the next level.   And it is much louder than I desire.

I'm going to look into the curved switch yard concept.  I could get more yard space, but it would give up a couple spaces for some scenery.  I saw other posts where folks regrets in their layouts were using curved switches.  I was trying to avoid those.

I calculated the amount of parallel track in the current yard - using 5 of the 6 parallels, SCARAM shows 630".  730" with the 6th.  That still leaves me with yard bypass open.  Once I start building the train off the yard, there is over 860" from the exit of the yard to joining with the main loops.  Using all 6 of the yard tracks implies I can build a train up to 61' long, without, IMO, fouling the main, but maybe I don't understand the terminology.

Assuming 18" intermodal/autoracks, a 730" train without engines is about 40 cars long.  I'm not sure I have that many.  A 730" train entering the inner loop would wrap around the entire south and east side of the inner loop until the engine met the EOT car coming up the grade entrance to the main.  Short of just determining how long a train could I pull, I'm not sure I'd regularly be running 61' long trains.  But my quick and dirty calcs show that would give me a 61' train of 40 cars that could get from the inner loop to the outer loop, running counter clockwise, but I would not be able to reverse it because I would foul the reversing loop on the left.  51' was about the limit.  Yes, if the upper siding were clear, I could drop 20' of cars there, reverse, then pick them up on the return.

Assuming I have about 40 modern intermodal/autoracks, they would all be out of the yard and continuously looping around the outer loop, freeing up the yard completely to go underneath the layout with the hidden staging yard, and re-fill the staging yard with 730" of other cars, and it still allows me to get to the inner loop to now have two 61' trains running concentrically.  I'd need to figure out where to rise out of the hidden staging yard. 

@VADarthDad  My biggest error was looking at dimensions and not realizing what they meant on the layout. As an engineer by training I should know better, but 3D modeling was developed in part to see where plant design interferences would occur prior to construction. Part of why I like SCARM and its 3d model and the train plug-in.  Not sure I'll ever have the space you are working with - my 9x13 layout would fit easily into the right side of your plan. 

I like running passenger, intermodal, grain, coal drags and mixed freight trains. Right now it means hauling stuff off shelves and all that that entails, just as you mentioned.  At best I can park a train or two on a long siding(s) in order to run other equipment.  To me the scenery is the place that your various trains occupy when not in service (running).  An intermodal terminal with a dock, grain silos, chemical / fuel storage facility, passenger station, etc.  For the subway you either go underground or go up. The Black Diamond Railway has a good example of elevated and @Subway Joe has some great NY subway modeling.  MTH Bank Kitbash Passenger Terminal  This is what you could do for a passenger station - there are other examples on the forum. If you keep the design pretty much as is, you have the makings for the station and a city above the big yard.

As always its a compromise over what you want and what space you have available. BTW - Lots of great perspectives in the replies above.

This size folded dogbone is just about ideal for 3-rail 0 gauge. I like what you've got and think it could bring you many years of fun. But if you want to fiddle with it, try pulling stuff out. Keep pulling out until you see the bare bones. Now as you add back in, prioritize your adds. You will learn buckets from this process. And the layout might end up leaner and meaner and even more fun.

Good luck.

Don Merz