2 rail on 3 rail

Ray,

 

I also have a 3-Rail layout, 3RS actually, and have modified all my Atlas switch guard rails in order to operate 2-Rail wheel equipped freight cars. Per instructions from SOONUT (George Balling), all you need to do is cement the appropriate thickness styrene shim strips on the TOP of the diverging route guard rail. 

 

Seems to work OK, so far.

I operate 2-rail scale on my 3-rail layout.

 

One of the anomalies of Atlas switches in both three rail and two rail is reduced height guard rails. 

 

The two rail guard rail code is about .138" which effectively reduces the flange depth by .010"

 

No idea what the designer of these turnouts was thinking, must have been a non RRer.

 

It would be great if Steve from Ross would take over the Old Pullman line.  Good product from a proven craftsman.

Charlie,

 

Does your 2 rail equipment have to travel over 3 rail switches?  Engines that is.  I have a test track of 3 rail atlas track that I run both 2 and 3 rail power on with no problems.  But what happens when ones adds 3 rail turnouts (switches) into the mix?

 

Steve

Wow! In three hours many answers!Thank you all very much.

Steve: I only have 3 rail engines and am interested in 2 rail cars.

Jack: My track is fastrack so your tip is welcome but not necessary. I was more

        worried  about the issue going through fastrack switches and turn radius. 

Charlie: Nice video. How do they go through any of your switches?

 

Thanks again

 

Ray Marion

 

PS. Am I the only one still stuck at work?

I've been running scale-wheeled equipment on the club layout for a couple of years. The wheels will dip in the frogs of 3-rail turnouts, but derailments are pretty rare, except for a couple of odd cars in my collection. I also run MTH Scale-wheeled locomotives set for 3-rail operation. Here are some observations:

• You will start looking at some of your high-end 3-rail cars differently. I've already started converting some of them. My Hi-rail CNW/UP Heritage SD70ACe is going up on the auction block in the next week or two since I found a scale-wheeled version (still looking for a Katy.)
• Your locomotives and longer freight cars WILL find your bad track for you -- kinks, twists and odd dips in the rail.
• Curves must be larger. 36" radius (O-72) is considered sharp; you're better off with 40" radius (O-80) and above.
• Longer cars (over roughly 65 feet) will need larger curves, especially 89-foot flats and autoracks since the trucks sit father in from the end sills. Interestingly enough, I was able to get a string of scale-wheeled autoracks through a 36" radius curve pulled by a pair of U25B's, but the locomotives had Kadee 805's and the couplers were stretched pretty far. That's one of those "don't try this at home" tests.
• I've tested the following MTH scale-wheeled locomotives and they successfully negotiate 36" radius (O-72) with a train in tow:
• • U25B
  • C40-8W
  • ATSF 4-6-4 Hudson
  • GP38
  • GE ES44, including the hybrid. I was surprised by this.
  • GE C44-9W
• Don't couple short (40-foot) cars to long (80-foot) cars. You literally have to build your freight from shortest to longest (they do that with prototypes, too.) The aforementioned 89-foot flat will derail a 40-foot car coupled to it if the curve is too sharp.
• Use Kadee 804/805 couplers. They have a longer shank and a greater swing. The new 700 series has a comparable center-set long-shank coupler (I think it's the 740.)
• Curve-replacement turnouts (i.e., O-72, etc.) may be problematic. #5 and #4 Ross turnouts seem to work the best. Atlas turnouts have lower-height guard rails as mentioned above and are inconsistent.
• Consisted locomotives need to be tested carefully. If they fight each other (one pushing or pulling excessively on the others) you can have derailments of the locomotives.
• Some of your 3-rail colleagues will give you suspicious looks. (just kidding)
• Some of your 2-rail colleagues will say "we knew we'd get you sooner or later."

Ray,

I am not sure of this, but I do not think 2 rail equipment will like Fastrack. The Fastrack has a more or less tubular profile on the top of the rail as opposed to a "T" on Atlas or Ross etc. Straight runs of track may be ok but you may have problems going thru the Fastrack switches. I think you should do some careful experimenting to find out if your cars will go thru your track on your layout. There can be a lot of variables so you really need to trying it before you jump in with both feet.

Tim

 

     You may be right, I just see some beautiful cars with 2rail trucks and will give them a try.

 

Matt

     My club members already look at me with suspicion. We agonize over creating a realistically detailed layout to put brite yellow, red and blue cars on. Then I have the audacity to weather my own. Love it!

 

Thanks for all the input.

 

Ray Marion

Good question, good thread!

 

I think I've finally 'crossed the bridge' on this one.  To create a leaf-spring archbar truck for an Ambroid caboose model to run on my O3R layout (Gargraves/Ross, O72 Min.) I found some old metal Athearn kit wheels with slightly deeper flanges that worked just fine in a pair of Athearn plastic archbar truck frames, sustituting Precision Scale leaf springs for the coil springs.  The metal wheels, besides tracking just fine throughout the layout, also offered an easier way to power the marker/interior lights in the 'boose from the track (found a center roller assembly in the parts bin that was easy to attach to the Athearn truck for center rail pickup).

 

So, yes, I would say there's an excellent chance that O2R wheelsets will work on O3R track, especially that having an appropriate rail cross-section...e.g., Gargraves, Ross, Scaletrax, Atlas, early Realtrax, and maybe others. 

 

Worth a try, anyway, because there are some increased choices available to the O3R hobbyist when doing this!!

 

KD

Steve

Ray

 

I was running a demonstration of a battery operated, radio equipped 2- rail, O scale locomotives.

The train ran over  Ross No 6 turnouts but only thru the straights.

Thank you for your interest in the video.

I'M BACK!!!!!!!!

 

I see stud rail never took off- too bad. But that doesn't bother me- I got plenty of Atlas code 148 2-rail track, a small stash of stud rail I bought afew years ago from Hugo, and plenty of 3 -rail engines and 2-rail rolling stock. HA, HA, HA!!!

Geno

My friend recently purchased one of the new Lionel round roof boxcars and he told me that the flanges on this 3 rail scale car's trucks are small enough that they run on his Atlas 2 rail track and turnouts with no problems.  So maybe Lionel and MTH are finally looking at the old pie cutter flanges and doing something about them at least on their full scale sized equipment.  We progress!

 

Joe Foehrkolb

ive been running 2 rail box cars on my 3rd rail setup..got them because there alot nicer and true to scale size them most 3rd rail box cars..

You won't have much luck with 2 rail flanges on Lionel Fastrack. Atlas or Gargraves/Ross track, YES, as Matt detailed above, but the Fastrack rails are just 2 round.

 

If you have just a loop of Fastrack with no switches, the 2 rail stuff MIGHT stay on the rails.

im runnig mine on lionels tubler track with no proublems..ive seen guys put 3rd rail wheels on the 2 rail cars..

The real future for 3-rail cars lies in our past -- the Code 172, .060 flange wheel. Wide enough tread to keep on the rails; deep enough flange to handle 3-rail turnouts. Will even work on code 100 rail. Yes the flanges are three times the size of prototype. Yes the treads are wide. But we're talking about wheels that work in multiple environments. If you need to "un-insulate" the car, use single-insulated wheels and turn one axle around in a metal truck and you're done.

72blackbird: Yep studrail is dead. After showing off my work and efforts in the 3RS section it was continuously blasted and insulted. No matter what I did it was never good enough. Its funny that large flange 3 rail wheels are considered  acceptable though. Go figure. Others said they'd only buy such a product if MTH made it. The year long thread turned into a bash fest and it was ultimately closed. The experience led me to abandon the hypocritical nature of many in the 3RS community and to just fully embrace 2 rail. I feel dumber for not doing it sooner. In terms of control systems I believe that no track power radio control is the ultimate future. My 3 rail based love has really always been outside rail anyways but that's for historical reasons.

Fred,

I've seen your stud rail track work- it would have made Lisa Marie and Hugo proud. I know now gauge stud rail will never have the commercial success of Marklin HO, but for some strange reason I want to continue to pursue it and build a working stud rail layout. I already have enough 2-rail track, stud rail, rolling stock and engines to make a complete attempt at it.

I have no illusions about how easy it will be, since I built my first layout, only to tear it down after realizing the benchwork was too deep and I was trying to cram too much track onto it. I also know I'll have to make my own tooling to make more strudrail, since hiring any machine or fabrication shop would cost too much- I build classic musclecars, so I will figure something out there. And I will be using code 148 Atlas 2 rail track, so if the project fails I can always discard the stud rail and convert to pure 2 rail. The layout will be for my own personal enjoyment, so I'm not even slightly concerned what 3 rail scalers or 2-railers will think of it- I'll use techniques from both and see how it goes.

I'd love to  see pics of your current 2-rail layout.

 

Geno

 

 

Shame about the stud rail, thought it was great myself!! Its the only three rail I could have handled, I thought of putting in a loop to run the three rail loco's Ive still to convert.    (cTr...Choose the Right)