2017 Denver Post Frontier Days Excursion

This is another one of the big steam trips I've wanted to do. I was in the lottery last year but lost out. As I was on the 4449 trip and a bit "tapped out", I did not join for this year. I'll be back in the running for next year.

Hope to see you onboard !

Question:  Do passengers for the Denver Post Frontier Days excursion board at Denver Union Station?  Am I wrong in thinking that it has not come into Union Station in the last couple of years for this trip?  I would like to just see it and take some pictures.  On UPs website, it says "Limited Public Access".

Passengers for the Frontier Days train do not board at Union Station anymore. Union Station is owned by RTD (the light rail people) now. Another way the city of Denver has ruined Union Station. First they boot out one of the best O scale layouts in the country out of the basement. Now you can't board a classic train. The train will leave at 7 a.m. from somewhere across from the Forney Museum at 4303 Brighton Blvd. I don't know how close the public can get to the train. After the train leaves you can stick around for 3 hours for the TCA show at the Forney.

Hope you guys have a great trip. Meanwhile I'll be across the street Saturday and Sunday at the Forney Museum for the summer Rocky Mountain Train Show 10 am to 5 pm Saturday and 10-3 Sunday. 

Have fun!

Wow ... that looks like a fun day!

SJC posted:

This is another one of the big steam trips I've wanted to do. I was in the lottery last year but lost out. As I was on the 4449 trip and a bit "tapped out", I did not join for this year. I'll be back in the running for next year.

I read that there was air conditioning failures in the/some coaches on the 4449 excursion.  What happened?  

Jim

EBT Jim posted:

SJC posted:

This is another one of the big steam trips I've wanted to do. I was in the lottery last year but lost out. As I was on the 4449 trip and a bit "tapped out", I did not join for this year. I'll be back in the running for next year.

I read that there was air conditioning failures in the/some coaches on the 4449 excursion.  What happened?  

Jim

Two of the Amtrak coaches had AC failures. Passengers moved into other cars. 

Hot Water posted:

EBT Jim posted:

I read that there was air conditioning failures in the/some coaches on the 4449 excursion.  What happened?  

Jim

Two of the Amtrak coaches had AC failures. Passengers moved into other cars. 

"Sh*t happens." Part of life.

A bit of bad luck and timing ... with the heat wave,

I also read many excursion passengers' praise of the 4449 crew and others involved ... in their mitigation of the situation.

Are the coaches owned and maintained by Amtrak?

EBT Jim posted:

Hot Water posted:

EBT Jim posted:

I read that there was air conditioning failures in the/some coaches on the 4449 excursion.  What happened?  

Jim

Two of the Amtrak coaches had AC failures. Passengers moved into other cars. 

"Sh*t happens." Part of life.

A bit of bad luck and timing ... with the heat wave,

I also read many excursion passengers' praise of the 4449 crew and others involved ... in their mitigation of the situation.

Are the coaches owned and maintained by Amtrak?

Yes, and there in lied the problem. Apparently the Amtrak coaches came out of California (LA area?) and must not have been properly inspected, tested ,and repaired as necessary. According to many people familiar with Amtrak and their car maintenance, such failures are NOT uncommon. I would assume that our excursion management team will NOT be paying to the lease/use of those two coaches.

Erik, thanks for (again) posting a couple of your top-drawer photos.  I especially like the blue hour photo of 844.  It talks to me.

Wow .... how many dome cars were on that train?

844 sure is one handsome locomotive.

EBT Jim posted:

Wow .... how many dome cars were on that train?

I counted six dome cars from the various photos of the train.

844 sure is one handsome locomotive.

  There were 7 dome cars  4 observation cars and one partying dance car !

So I guess UP is the only class 1 with an "official" steam program, and they only run one public excursion a year, out of Colorado. BNSF and NS now have to run under Amtrak's umbrella, like with 261, 4449, and 611.

Robert K posted:

So I guess UP is the only class 1 with an "official" steam program, and they only run one public excursion a year, out of Colorado. BNSF and NS now have to run under Amtrak's umbrella, like with 261, 4449, and 611.

To be completely clear, the Cheyenne Frontier Days Special is organized and tickets sold through the Denver Post Newspaper, who LEASES the train from the UPRR. The UP does NOT "run" an public excursions.

Is the reason freight railroads don't want to directly handle public excursion trains is because of the liability and insurance issues? Let another group or Amtrak handle it? Did UP ever operate their own excursions in the past? But doesn't UP still need to be involved with excursions like this, have qualified engineers in the cab, etc.? It is after all their train and their railroad. Who pays the insurance? The recent NS excursions were a similar thing, even the old ones years ago, a museum or chapter would sell tickets, and staff the train, but NS would supply pilot engineers and other crew, and provide track to run on and time slots for the excursions to run without interfering with their freight schedules.

Robert K posted:

Is the reason freight railroads don't want to directly handle public excursion trains is because of the liability and insurance issues?

No. It is federal law, which was part of the original charter of Amtrak. Class 1 railroads are NOT allowed to sell tickets to the riding public, as ONLY Amtrak is allowed to do that, by law!

Let another group or Amtrak handle it? Did UP ever operate their own excursions in the past? But doesn't UP still need to be involved with excursions like this, have qualified engineers in the cab, etc.? It is after all their train and their railroad. Who pays the insurance? The recent NS excursions were a similar thing, even the old ones years ago, a museum or chapter would sell tickets, and staff the train, but NS would supply pilot engineers and other crew, and provide track to run on and time slots for the excursions to run without interfering with their freight schedules.

CHOO-CHOO MIKE posted:

  There were 7 dome cars  4 observation cars and one partying dance car !

.... on the way to a rodeo! 

I don't dance, but sure sounds like a lot of fun! 

EBT Jim posted:

CHOO-CHOO MIKE posted:

  There were 7 dome cars  4 observation cars and one partying dance car !

.... on the way to a rodeo! 

Well to be completely accurate, not just ANY rodeo, but the oldest & largest continuously operating Rodeo in the entire world!

I don't dance, but sure sounds like a lot of fun! 

Hot Water posted:

EBT Jim posted:

Wow .... how many dome cars were on that train?

I counted six dome cars from the various photos of the train.

844 sure is one handsome locomotive.

 

  HARRIMAN

MISSOURI RIVER EAGLE

CHALLENGER 

COLUMBINE 

CITY OF PORTLAND

WALTER DEAN

CITY OF SAN FRANCISCO

  All dome cars.  That makes 7 all pulled  to Cheyenne yesterday and today. With 700 passengers and crew.

The train could have been sold out 3 times over !

Mike, nice run this year!

a few pics from Saturday’s shoot..

Even got a chance to shoot with the Summilux primes and Leica M10

Erik, you certainly do set the bar high.  

I noticed some new style signals in photos near Denver, but in one other photo there is definitely an old cast US&S color light signal with its mast mounted on top of the instrument case -- a traditional Union Pacific ABS signal of the type used for 50 or 60 years on the Greeley line.  

There used to be an overhead signal bridge at Greeley, CO, which displayed a UPRR shield on the side.  Do you know if that signal is still in service?

Thanks Tom,

I’m not sure about the signal. It could be there. I’ll look next time I am through. 

CHOO-CHOO MIKE posted:

......Another way the city of Denver has ruined Union Station. Now you can't board a classic train.......

I think a major problem is that passenger trains have to pull into Union Station, and then back out (which is what Amtrak does, I believe. For quite a number of years, now, the southbound exit track from the station no longer exists, for various reasons I've forgotten. Quite a few buildings now exist where the track used to go.

In any case, the UP doesn't want to have to back up this train. Various issues can present themselves. Among other things, I know I've heard that the centipede tender can have a derailing problem on backups, expecially on curves that are at all tight. 

breezinup posted:

CHOO-CHOO MIKE posted:

......Another way the city of Denver has ruined Union Station. Now you can't board a classic train.......

I think a major problem is that passenger trains have to pull into Union Station, and then back out (which is what Amtrak does, I believe. For quite a number of years, now, the southbound exit track from the station no longer exists, for various reasons I've forgotten. Quite a few buildings now exist where the track used to go.

In any case, the UP doesn't want to have to back up this train. Various issues can present themselves. Among other things, I know I've heard that the centipede tender can have a derailing problem on backups, expecially on curves that are at all tight. 

The train is backed in.. now and uses the Y located near the shots above. Irregardless they still back the train as before. The millennial population in LODO probably doesn’t want the smoke and noise.

Another awesome ride behind #844. Here are a couple videos I shot on the train. 

The curve outside of Platteville 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJlkT7jxZbk

Entertainment in the Baggage Car 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K29gyY1cB14

  Both band were real good ! The bluegrass band has done the train 26 years in a row.   

Erik C Lindgren posted:

The millennial population in LODO probably doesn’t want the smoke and noise.

I believe you've identified the root cause, Erik.  More NIMBY stuff.

Or all the standard gauge tracks directly behind Union Station are being used by new standard gauge RTD commuter trains going to Denver airport and elsewhere north. Backing the UP train in there might screw up the schedule

Went to the UP Historical Society convention the last week in July, a week after the aforementioned trip to Cheyenne. No I was not on that excursion.  Went to the Forney museum of transportation.  My first look into the firebox of a big boy, you can look in from the back of the cab.  I just could not get over the bigness of that firebox.  I stepped off on the outside something close to 17 feet in length.  I believe there is a rotary wheel to distribute coal off of the stoker pedestal to feed the thing.  Next day we got to see the 844 in her berth at the steam shop in Cheyenne,  the boiler was warm to the touch, but we were told that some heat is always maintained in the boiler to keep things from too much contraction and then expansion.   We ate lunch at the park in Cheyenne where 4014 rests. Someone said that the park has flooded in years past to the point of the 4014 standing in water.  Next the Colorado Model Railroad layout which was in Greeley I believe.  It would take a real photographer to even come close to showing how massive and impressive this is.  Do not pass the Denver area without stopping there.  Then we were treated to several very good lectures to keep the historical side in perspective.  Mr. Davis, ex president of UP spoke at length Sat. night.  He just took us through his career.  The many moves he made with his family demonstrated the life of a railroader, sort of nomadic.  He and his wife had 4 boys, and they moved right along with, but they had each other.  His wife was  with him and very gracious.  Mr. Davis started off at the bottom of the food chart so to speak, although he never mentioned pounding spikes, so maybe not quite at the bottom.  Next year in Olympia Wa. its a joint meeting with the Milwaukee RR Historical society.  I spent Friday riding the RTD down to Union Station, hiking over to the older light rail, and touring the city on that.  I happened to pick up a West World magazine left on the seat. The publication is full of  stuff about local activities.  I usually start from the back of a magazine.  It took about 10 pages before I got through the ads for Pot sales. Times sure do change as we age don't they.