Just received the new 2023 Lionel catalog in the mail today, noticed there's ton of pages missing that are in the Digital version on the lionel website. What gives?
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I believe the idea was to save paper by not reprinting any carry over products from catalogs prior.
@gwoods27 posted:Just received the new 2023 Lionel catalog in the mail today, noticed there's ton of pages missing that are in the Digital version on the lionel website. What gives?
Ryan Kunkle posted about this a weeks back.
You can read all about it here.
Personally even if it was saving Lionel some money I say good for them. Digital is becoming the way to go. It is instant, fixable, and easier IMO. Why print a full catalog so folks can go into the reading room and thumb through pages of products that they see every catalog. I like a catalog like the next guy but it's a changing world and companies need to evolve to meet the changes. In the online catalog there are several links to videos and sound sets that are obviously not available in print.
I like a catalog that advertises the entire product line. I presume it's a money issue. Before saving money on reduced catalog pages, I would eliminate sending multiple catalogs to the same person. Each year I receive multiple copies of the same catalog. This year there was no indication which vendor(s) sent the catalogs.
@shorling posted:I like a catalog that advertises the entire product line. I presume it's a money issue. Before saving money on reduced catalog pages, I would eliminate sending multiple catalogs to the same person. Each year I receive multiple copies of the same catalog. This year there was no indication which vendor(s) sent the catalogs.
Did you read Ryan's response?
As far as receiving multiple catalogs, I suspect that would be up to the retailers you purchase from. They are most likely the ones sending you multiple copies from each vendor. As far as I know Lionel only sends them per request or if you are a LCCA member.
I definitely prefer print whether it's the catalog or just reading books but I do recognize how digital is a better option in terms of cost and use of resources (trees, pigments, metal). I'm also starting to love digital more because I can fit a library on a hard drive. I don't live in a particularly big house so being able to store volumes on something smaller than some books is great.
Not a big deal for me. Yeah, it would be nice to have all the items in one place but, frankly, in the grand scheme of things it doesn't really matter.
I went through the whole book several times last week, all online, and this old fart's eyes were able to check out everything with no problem and make a handful of pre-orders with my favorite dealers.
Done.
The last three have all been this way, just now noticing?
123 years. For a hobby steeped in history, and tradition which is passed on, and for which so much is captured in and always been conveyed through the catalogs, getting rid of them, or even parts of them, is a substantial issue.
Is it a real one? No. The virtual version has everything that the paper one has, and more. No argument here.
Is it an emotional one? Definitely. We need to understand that although Lionel's products are heavily technical, they still, after 123 years, touch us primarily through our emotions.
If they play with those emotions too deeply, or worse yet take too many of the positive ones away, we'll stop buying.
For now keep the catalogs. For most of us they generate far more positive emotions than most people realize.
Once enough oldsters have passed the topic can be revisited because increasingly, as the years go by, the younger folks probably won't have such a significant attachment to them.
Mike
"E"mails, internet TV, Bank online, shop online, pay bills online, pay taxes online.....internet train forums......
Online catalog?? That's crazy talk.
All good points, One of my favorite parts of getting the catalog as a kid was looking at all the accessories, track and power stuff. I mean, if you're going to go to the trouble of printing a catalog, distributing it etc..., why leave out 20 or so pages of stuff you want to sell to people. Especially for the kids that go to the hobby store or train show for the first time, get their first catalog to look at over and over and beg mom and dad for the stuff they see in it when their birthday and Christmas come around. I mean, I was one of 9 kids growing up, the only present I was getting out of the catalog was an accessory or two. Then again, kids have access to ipads and iphones earlier and earlier, now a days so...
@RamblerDon posted:I believe the idea was to save paper by not reprinting any carry over products from catalogs prior.
Yes that sounds correct, looking thru the printed catalog notice "All New Product" appears on all the pages. I don't believe any new items were left out of the printed catalog. I still like the printed catalogs, I'd be fine if they stick with this approach for future catalogs.
For some unexplainable reason this is the first time I don't mind a non-printed version. I used to keep catalogs, but I've since put them in the recycle bin. The digital version is fine.
MTH, unfortunately used Flashplayer on their older catalogs, which, from what I understand, is dead (or dying).
@Frank Mulligan posted:For some unexplainable reason this is the first time I don't mind a non-printed version. I used to keep catalogs, but I've since put them in the recycle bin. The digital version is fine.
MTH, unfortunately used Flashplayer on their older catalogs, which, from what I understand, is dead (or dying).
Both Lionel and MTH used Flash. This is why now they BOTH link to downloadable PDF copies when you go to pull older catalogs to view online.
Only the new products will be put in the catalogs there is no need to put products that are carried over from the previous catalogs. In fact I like I this way better don't have to see repeats from before
Paper is expensive and in short supply. However, I haven't found a publisher or printing house yet that said "sorry we can't print your full catalog because there isn't enough paper" nor any that closed up shop because there was no paper anywhere to be purchased. Our company works with many publishers to print technical manuals, brochures and many other things, never once did any of them they tell us that we can't fulfill your order due to a paper shortage. What they did tell us is that they are sourcing paper from more expensive suppliers and that cost will be passed on to us which we in turn pass along to our customer. Lionel can print a full catalog if they are willing to pay the price, the smaller catalog is a cost saving measure. I would do the same thing if I were in their shoes. If Ryan's publisher is having trouble finding paper, I'm more than happy to hook him up with plenty of suppliers that don't have that problem, they just need to be willing to pay up. The OGR magazine has faced the same issue but they aren't shortening up their publication and they probable use just as much if not more paper than the Lionel catalog. If anything, they will continue to print the full magazine and just have to raise subscription prices to cover the added cost. I hope that doesn't happen.
Personally I like the digital catalog more as it take up less space in my house and I can look at on my phone, tablet, or computer whenever or wherever I want. My LHS had a copy of the new catalog and I like the new format vs. what they did last year. New products (Vision, Legacy & Lionchief) are the focus and repeat production is featured in the full digital catalog. It's a nice format and there is something for everyone!
The print catalog is nice to have, but totally unnecessary. I don’t want Lionel to keep printing these if it means it’ll follow the path of other famous catalog businesses (e.g Sears, Montgomery Wards, JC Penny). So if going digital saves them money and they can use those funds to stay afloat or invest in new tooling/tech, then more power to them!
I think the plan (which may have changed) was to print the track, power and accessories as a separate print catalog every few years, since very little changes. I guess we'll find out soon whether that plan is now a goner due to costs. I think printed catalogs still are useful for those amongst us who do not have email, internet, etc., and may represent a significant portion of their consumer base. Have no idea, but it's a potential issue I'm sure they are thinking about.
@Keith Crook 020419 posted:The print catalog is nice to have, but totally unnecessary. I don’t want Lionel to keep printing these if it means it’ll follow the path of other famous catalog businesses (e.g Sears, Montgomery Wards, JC Penny).
...especially if it means having the catalog end up hanging inside that little smelly backyard shack!
(Yes, yes...some of us old pharts understand that perspective. Gen X. Y, Z, Alpha(?), Millenials, et alia, would have no idea. And y'all thought we weren't into recycling!...tsk, tsk.
)
@dkdkrd posted:...especially if it means having the catalog end up hanging inside that little smelly backyard shack!
(Yes, yes...some of us old pharts understand that perspective. Gen X. Y, Z, Alpha(?), Millenials, et alia, would have no idea. And y'all thought we weren't into recycling!...tsk, tsk.
I fall into one of those age categories but dad has passed on his knowledge! The color glossy pages are always used last!!
I currently prefer the printed catalog but could easily be swayed to favor the digital format more if it offered more interactive options, like being able to hear sound clips of the whistles, horns and bells as well clips of the engine in motion and special functions like blow-down, pop-off valves, crew talk and station sound diner announcements. I suspect the same files are applicable to the majority of products and can be presented in a generalized product overview page, with unique sounds and features for unique products featured on the applicable product page/description.
I love the paper, I am a purist after all, but the embedded digital videos are a lot of fun to watch. Even my bride enjoys them. 👍😎
I totally prefer paper. I appreciate the digital world and I'm adept at operating in it, but, for studying or reading certain types of materials--like product catalogs, or magazines or books--I don't particularly like the digital experience. When Lionel releases a catalog online, I peak at it, but then I wait for the print catalog to look at it in-depth. I have digital access to both OGR and CTT, but I've found that other than glancing at a new issue to see what's in it, I don't use it. As with the Lionel catalog, I just wait for the print version to arrive to actually spend time with the magazine. Digital obviously has advantages, but print has advantages, too. Having grown up with print, I appreciate its advantages. (Interestingly, even my grandchildren, who are growing up in the digital world, prefer looking at a toy catalog in print rather than online.)
@SusieQ posted:I currently prefer the printed catalog but could easily be swayed to favor the digital format more if it offered more interactive options, like being able to hear sound clips of the whistles, horns and bells as well clips of the engine in motion and special functions like blow-down, pop-off valves, crew talk and station sound diner announcements. I suspect the same files are applicable to the majority of products and can be presented in a generalized product overview page, with unique sounds and features for unique products featured on the applicable product page/description.
I think that's a great idea! Embedded videos in the digital catalog of the trains and accessories in action. Especially to draw in the youngsters. Because we all know that's where the interest in the hobby starts.
Honestly, in lieu of a paper catalog, how about a product search on the website that actually works?
This way newcomers could find out what was made, what is planned on being made, what was cancelled, and even better, which Lionel dealers actually have the product in stock.
It would also be nice to be able to search by road name, locomotive vs. rolling stock, Legacy vs. LionChief, etc. Additionally, actual product photos once they’re delivered would be awesome too.
This is another case of “change”, which some of us have a little difficulty with, as for many many years, yes since Lionel began making neat color catalogs, ((Way Back When) we the product buyers and users, love to look at these books and enjoy the thoughts that come to our heads viewing these really neat train items. MTH, KLINE, WEAVER, PECOS RIVER, ATLAS O, WALTHERS, , small but neat, Ross, Gargraves, Curtis, Z-Stuff, Peco, LGB, and that’s o name a few. Lionel is the main attraction today, and we are grateful for there efforts to keep a paper copy alive. So, the online catalog is easily viewable and has almost 100 more pages to review, and I see this as being the easiest way to look at all of the beautiful products available today. And as bad as I hate to say this, the paper catalogs do take up a lot of space, thus giving a nod to the online version. Happy Railroading Everyone
Like many of you, I am adjusting to the changing times of communications and advertising.
I made a stop in Barnes & Noble last week, with intent on using their bathroom (thought of the "Bookstore" Seinfeld episode 
when I asked the woman at the desk if I could use their bathroom) as I was on a long work trip and ended up buying a half dozen or so classic novels at some very good prices. Holding them in my hands at home reinforces to me that nothing beats holding hard print, nothing.
All the "bells and whistles" of the digital internet age don't hold a candle to holding and reading a well-done book or catalog, and it probably was never meant to compete, but rather is just another more convenient and economical means of transmitting information.
@leapinlarry posted:And as bad as I hate to say this, the paper catalogs do take up a lot of space, thus giving a nod to the online version. Happy Railroading Everyone
Larry, I’m a bit confused. The catalogs have been available online for many years, and you don’t have to save the paper catalogs. They’re just another way (for some, a better way) to view the catalog. Enjoy your trains!
@Paul Kallus posted:All the "bells and whistles" of the digital internet age don't hold a candle to holding and reading a well-done book or catalog, and it probably was never meant to compete, but rather is just another more convenient and economical means of transmitting information.
I'm curious, have you tried using a Kindle for books, or a tablet for full color catalogs?
One thing that always bothered me about printed media was the way some tight bindings prevented full viewing of the page. It was especially true of paperback versions.
I do prefer print for reference and educational materials, but usually those have bindings that allow the item to be opened flat.
@rplst8 posted:I'm curious, have you tried using a Kindle for books, or a tablet for full color catalogs?
One thing that always bothered me about printed media was the way some tight bindings prevented full viewing of the page. It was especially true of paperback versions.
I do prefer print for reference and educational materials, but usually those have bindings that allow the item to be opened flat.
I have viewed my sister's Kindle and my friend's tablet, and it just doesn't have the effect (on me) of the written word and pictures as printed on paper (not a religious statement ), though they and others I know love them. I know what you mean about tight bindings, all my books pretty much get the squash treatment .
FWIW: PBS recently showed an interesting documentary about the first alphabet and written language; there's likely others who comprehended the existential meaning of the show much better than I could, but it was nonetheless fascinating.
I picked up my paper copy today from Hennings trains. I have almost every catalog since 1990. And just recently I started to collect some prewar and postwar catalogs. I love the paper copy as you can't always find what your looking for online and makes for good reference. That's just my opinion anyway. I say do what you love and love what you do. That's what makes this hobby so great.
@rplst8 posted:Honestly, in lieu of a paper catalog, how about a product search on the website that actually works?
This way newcomers could find out what was made, what is planned on being made, what was cancelled, and even better, which Lionel dealers actually have the product in stock.
It would also be nice to be able to search by road name, locomotive vs. rolling stock, Legacy vs. LionChief, etc. Additionally, actual product photos once they’re delivered would be awesome too.
AMEN to that
i'm always trying to keep track of the trains i want making sure i know what happens so one day by the grace of God i can find those trains and accessories and hopefully i can build the layout that i've wanted since the age of six 21 years later it seems even farther away as i'm battling school , student debt and health scares that may or may not be colon cancer and an entire family that slanders and hates my hobby six ways to sunday and a growing fear that my creator feels the same way as my family . honestly sometimes i just want to throw in the towel and scrap the Topanga and Western but i know i'll be miserable even if i do quit so what gives
These are not simply a catalog they are a Wish Book. For many years, too many to count, all that I could afford was the catalog. There is no way I will ever throw them away. Too many memories of enjoyment looking at them and playing the "what if" game, like what if I had and extra $500, what would I buy, knowing full well that I had a mortgage to pay, and the kids needed shoes and clothes, and Monopoly money could not be used to buy trains. Would not trade those days for anything.
Online and PDF versions of the wish books are nice, especially if you want to zoom in to read the fine print. It's great to have that option too!
@Landsteiner posted:I think printed catalogs still are useful for those amongst us who do not have email, internet, etc.
And tell me again, without Internet how are you posting here? 
"
I think printed catalogs still are useful for those amongst us who do not have email, internet, etc.
And tell me again, without Internet how are you posting here?
@Landsteiner posted:
"Us" in this instance refers to all hobbyists amongst the human race, not solely us on the OGR Forum.
I get the point here, but to counter, I don't think it's the responsibility of the importers/manufacturers to cater to every individual hobbyist past a certain point of diminishing returns. They're in the business of staying in business first and foremost.
I'm sure they have all weighed the benefits of the full catalogue vs the benefits of an abridged version, and weighed both of those against the returns they expect vs the cost of printing and come to the conclusion that a full print catalogue just doesn't make sense anymore.
I'm not sure if the retailers pay to get the catalogues or if they're distributed gratis by Lionel to the retailers, but I know a ton of waste exists either way. I now get seven of the same catalogue from four retailers to two addresses by mail (billing and shipping) every time there's a new release.
@Andrew B. posted:I now get seven of the same catalogue from four retailers to two addresses by mail (billing and shipping) every time there's a new release.
I was at a GATS show in 2019, couldn't believe the number of new catalogs from every manufacturer I saw in the trash can on my way out.
Next time they offer me a catalog I'll just say 'No thanks, I'll grab one from the garbage can when I leave'. Now getting one without funnel cake dust and nacho cheese on it will be the challenge!🤣
@H1000 posted:Next time they offer me a catalog I'll just say 'No thanks, I'll grab one from the garbage can when I leave'. Now getting one without funnel cake dust and nacho cheese on it will be the challenge!🤣
🤣🤣🤣
I don't really care because the prices have exceeded my discretionary hobby budget!
If others have the ability to buy wonderful new stuff, great for them; but I'm out!
I prefer a printed catalog too. For one its a tradition. I like to keep a couple mint catalogs with my orders, and one for each year. Digital doesn't have the same effect. That content can be removed or altered. Which is fine for a single use informational need. I also don't like how members of LCCA and LOTS only get one catalog yet support two clubs that provide Lionel catalos. LOTS told me Lionel filters the names and truncates to one per. So I guess I can buy several each time from my dealers. I will even offer to pay for shipping in a box so they won't get bent.
