3-rail electric's on 2-rails

Pull the rollers if you do. 

You should be able to. I don't own an mth electric to know for sure if the pantographs are prewired or not. Many electrics can be wired, but don't come ready to run(or didn't). My lionels even have the electrical ring connector attached to the screw inside but no wires. Check for continuity between your pickup rollers and pantographs. If the connection is present, your good to go. Otherwise you just have to add wires from the pantographs to where the roller wires connect. I don't know for sure about the nature of any of the motorized pantographs. What cantinary system are you planning to use?  

The newer MTH electrics come with switches on the bottom to switch between overhead and center-rail operation. I don't know how far back this goes. 

You haven't said what kind of 2-rail track you have in mind.  3-rail trains typically have wheels with very large flanges.  If you try to use scale 2-rail track, you might run into problems.

I've never owned an MTH locomotive, so I don't know what kind of flanges they have.

http://www.mthtrains.com/content/20-5600-1

http://www.mthtrains.com/content/20-5636-1

http://www.mthtrains.com/content/20-5629-1

http://www.mthtrains.com/content/20-5608-1

The above links identify the electric models I own.

BTW, MTH has Joe's in their new catalog; does anybody have one of MTH's previously manufactured Joe's; also, when was it built and how do you like it?

I've always liked the look of the prototype, Joe's; I'm thinking about getting one.

Re: the cantenary I would use etc... I'm just in the considering stage; nothing's been decided, yet. We're hoping to move, soon, so a new layout might be in my future; and, I've always liked the industrial look of overhead cantenary.

Marty, if I use the switch, mentioned in this thread, to use overhead power, do I still have to disconnect the pickup rollers; and, does that simply entail, removing a few screws?

BTW, how well does the pantographs/cantenary system work?

Thanks for your input, guys.

Rick

I have the first version of the MTH Little Joe. I like it fine; it runs well and is a strong puller. For some reason, MTH took its plan for the Little Joe from one unit that had been wrecked and rebuilt with different cabs. The nose is at a steeper angle than the original shovel-nosed version, giving an effect more like an EMD bulldog nose than an as-built Joe. The cab number of the rebuilt Joe was E78; so that is the only cab number that is really correct for an MTH Little Joe. The roof detail is for a freight motor, which is correct for that number. 

You need to remove the rollers if you are going to operate on 2-rail track, but I see no need to do so if you're using 3-rail track. As someone else has pointed out, the high flanges of 3-rail wheels could pose a problem on 2-rail track anyway. You can get 2-rail wheels for MTH locomotives if they have the 3/2 conversion feature - I don't know if the new Joe does or not. 

By the way, it's "catenary" not "cantenary." The word comes from the name of the curve described by a wire hanging from two end points. We learned the equation for the curve in high school algebra but I can't remember it offhand. 

I prefer the Weaver version of the Little Joe because it has the as-built nose. The MTH does run better, but I still like the Weaver for its looks. The Weaver has the roof detail of a passenger motor. 

Here's a comparison shot of the two noses. MTH in foreground, Weaver in back. 

South...,

Thanks for all the information; including, the spelling.

You say your Joe is from the first run; do you know if they changed any details, on subsequent runs?

From what I can see, in the picture you posted, I like the increased raked nose on the Weaver model, better.

Re: changing the wheels - none of my models; including, the new MTH Joe, recently offered, have the scale wheels option; that's usually seen with Premier 2-rail/3-rail versions.

Do you have a head-on and/or a full side shot, of your MTH Joe; it looks pretty good from what I can see?

Rick

Yes.

Overhead wire - catenary - is the 3rd rail, you know - it's just in the sky. As long as

you can connect the pantographs to the same AC input that the rollers use, the loco will, naturally, never know what hit it.

GarGraves makes tinplated ("regular") and stainless 2-rail track, which is the same "code"

(the height of the rail from the tie) as the 3-rail track. It's the same track, actually, but

missing 1/3 of its rails...

Only quite low Code rail is a problem for hi-rail flanges (some early Williams and ROW

brass had huge flanges, but, never mind); note that the MTH Scaletrax and the

Lionel Fastrack, of all things, both have pretty low "codes".

Go for it; catenary allows you to have a 3-rail layout with 2-rail track; the locos

are electric, just like the real ones, and both use "3 rails". It's as prototypical

as you can get, functionally.

500,

Your last paragraph - "Go for it"... is exactly what I was thinking.

There's nothing quite like those"quirky" electrics... doing their thing reaching skyward, for some grub.

How would you connect the power/control wires; would anything hook up to the rails?

Many thanks,

Rick

Ironically, as I understand it, the B&O class C-16 0-4-0 saddle tank steam locomotives (also made in the Railking line by MTH as well as the one put out well over a decade ago by ROW and IMP even further back in time) were also called "Little Joes" by the railroad workers.

Back to the electrical Little Joes, Wasn't the freight version more common?  I seem to recall that the Milwaukee Road only had 2 passenger-rigged Little Joes while the rest were freight.  If that's true then both the Weaver and MTH versions are rather limited in representing the bulk of that railroad's Little Joe roster.

I think the reason for either removing or tie-ing up the center roller is so that it don't get ripped off or cause a derailment if it hits a track crosstie due to the fact that the center rail is not there and the center roller may sit too low and hit a crosstie.

Lee Fritz

B&O Docksiders are called "Little Joe" in B&O POWER by Lawrence W. Sagle and Al Staufer. It was published in 1964, so the name was used before that, as John posted.

I think that the Milwaukee "Little Joes" were named after Joseph Stalin. They were built for the Russian Railways by GE but the U. S. government prohibited their export as relations with Russia deteriorated into the beginning of the Cold War.

I've read that as well.  I think Milwaukee Road workers originally called them "Little Joe Stalin's Locomotives" or something to that effect, and was eventually just shortened to "Little Joes."

And since someone asked for it, here's a full side view of the MTH locomotive.

Once again, South..., thanks for the info and pics.

I like the look of the black topped MTH unit; kinda looks evil.

Rick

http://www.railpictures.net/vi...id=349433&nseq=1

http://www.railpictures.net/vi...d=165402&nseq=10

http://www.railpictures.net/vi...d=163121&nseq=11

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M..._class_EF-4_and_EP-4

A little info to compare the models...

Rick

Re: the overhead power feed; instead, of using the standard wire catenary maybe, a flat metal strip, made out of an appropriate conductive alloy... would work? Somewhat akin to the surface of a rail; but, with out the vertical bulk. Seems that would be easier to secure in-place, as well.

BTW, one of the few models where the gap between the locomotive platform and the top of the trucks is, actually, prototypical.

Rick

I thought of using over-sized rod, too; then, the flat strip seemed like a good idea. A flat surface would probably provide better electrical contact/transfer and less wear on the pantograph blades.

I'd sig-zag the placement of the strip, too; like the real systems do... to cut down on pantograph wear; by spreading out the point of contact.

Rick

Flat rail also causes drag on the pan.  Stay clear.  MTH starting with the track/pantograph switch on the early PS-2 GG-1.  Most of the MTH electric engines have one.  Adriatic outlined a good way to check if you are in doubt. 

 The Marklin wire is your best bet.  My system has been up going on 15 years with not one problem.  If you choose to go this way, start hitting the pavement as that wire has not been made for a while.  I grab every lot I can find.  Someday I want to do a ceiling layout in Florida with catenary.