3rd Rail / Sunset 2nd Run SD7/9s

I ordered two SD7's, undecorated but with road specific detail applied for CB&Q.  They will become "red birds" for Fort Worth & Denver and/or Colorado & Southern.  Hope this comes to fruition.

@GG1 4877 posted:

Humbly asking for some input on the 2nd run of this locomotive.  We had a few painting errors on run #1, most egregiously with the missing sill stripes on the DM&IR SD9.  I'm working painting diagrams for the couple new road names that got added and doing QAQC on the first run painting.  If  you have anything that you would like to comment on related to painting, please feel free to send me an email (in my profile) or comment here on the forum.

I did the original painting diagrams in 2016 and as all the kids say these days, "it's been a minute".

For any comments or input on the FAs reach out to Pete Kruimer.  Scott's so busy with projects, Pete's big shoes have come to the rescue of my tiny shoes as I'm swimming in Amtrak projects too at the moment.  Petes's also making sure the H10a and H10b are completely on point.  Thrilled to have his expert skills on the team!  However, why anyone would want to buy NYC is beyond me, but I guess there are few of you out there.   

Had to get that plug in for FAs in addition to SD7/9s while I was at it.  Thank you!

Some eye candy from run 1 for anyone who missed these.  Sorry the Demonstrator SD7 is posted in the wrong forum and for the old cell phone photos.  For whatever reason the best manufacturer of mass-produced O scale trains doesn't have its own forum on OGR like some of the others - hint, hint.

Jonathan - I agree with your comment about a forum.  
Why Doesn’t 3rd Rail-Golden Gate Depot have its Own Forum  ????????  It should !!!

Great to see some discussion on the Cadillacs. I’ve got 3 SP’s on order: a tiger stripe SD7 and one each BW 7 and 9.
Jonathan, do you have road numbers specified for the SP models yet? I need to work out which cab numbers to specify. Were there any paint/decoration issues with the SP models last time?

@GG1 4877 posted:

...why anyone would want to buy NYC is beyond me, but I guess there are few of you out there.   

Jonathan!!!

Shame on you!!!

Obviously poor “training”. 😮😳🫢   😉😉😉

🤣🤣🤣

Well somebody has to like the big railroads so the rest of you can be hipsters.

Ah, well, @GG1 4877 , as Ralph Brown late of American Standard Car Company might have put it, unlike you followers of the lesser roads, we NYC guys get to model Real Trains for Real  Men.

- Mike

@Ryan Selvius posted:

Great to see some discussion on the Cadillacs. I’ve got 3 SP’s on order: a tiger stripe SD7 and one each BW 7 and 9.
Jonathan, do you have road numbers specified for the SP models yet? I need to work out which cab numbers to specify. Were there any paint/decoration issues with the SP models last time?

Ryan,

Let me post numbers for the Tiger Stripe and the Black Widow 7s and 9s.  I do not have numbers assigned yet for the bloody nose ones.  I am guessing that most people want the original numbers and paint variation on the Bloody Nose SP SD9s and not the renumbered versions with the big SP on the nose after rebuilds into SD9Es.  However, it wouldn't be the first time I was wrong.

@Rob Leese posted:

I ordered two SD7's, undecorated but with road specific detail applied for CB&Q.  They will become "red birds" for Fort Worth & Denver and/or Colorado & Southern.  Hope this comes to fruition.

I think that is the plan Rob.  I'm just awaiting confirmation from the mothership. 

@GG1 4877 posted:

Ryan,

Let me post numbers for the Tiger Stripe and the Black Widow 7s and 9s.  I do not have numbers assigned yet for the bloody nose ones.  I am guessing that most people want the original numbers and paint variation on the Bloody Nose SP SD9s and not the renumbered versions with the big SP on the nose after rebuilds into SD9Es.  However, it wouldn't be the first time I was wrong.

Its tough to say on the bloody nose units. I think there is potential interest in 60s/70s units as well as the GRIP rebuilt units. The SD9’s are a unique animal for SP fans in that they can fit into all eras of diesel age modeling. I’m not sure what external details changed for the SD9E but if the models Scott is producing would be a reasonably accurate representation of an 80s/90s vintage SD, then it may be worth offering a couple bloody nose variants.

For my personal interests, I’m keeping my diesel models to 1970s or earlier with a focus on steam/diesel transition era. I’m not ordering a bloody nose this time because the 50s era models is higher priority for me and finances are a limiting factor. If another run of SD’s and GP’s get done in a few years, I’d go for some bloody nose models.

I would have purchased two SD7's in Ft. Worth & Denver in a minute, but could not get Scott to add it. So I still do not have a SD7 and want one. I settled this time for (2) C&S SD9's.

@Blue Streak posted:

I would have purchased two SD7's in Ft. Worth & Denver in a minute, but could not get Scott to add it. So I still do not have a SD7 and want one. I settled this time for (2) C&S SD9's.

I lobbied fairly heavy for a Burlington red/gray SD7/9 version this time. You might have seen the threads I started on OGR.  Anyway, when I discovered it possible to order unpainted units with the proper details (primarily the high mounted Mars lights), I ordered them that way. I was not about to attempt stripping and repainting a “gray bird” into a “red bird” scheme. The red/ gray version is much simpler to apply, and the decal sets are readily available.  After forum comments on this subject were made plus emails to 3rd Rail with responses, it was never clearly explained why a repeat of the first run was being offered as opposed to a new paint scheme.  There must be a valid underlying reason for this which simply isn’t stated to us consumers.  Plus, it appears to me how Burlington fans are a rare breed.

@TrainBub posted:

Jonathan - I agree with your comment about a forum.  
Why Doesn’t 3rd Rail-Golden Gate Depot have its Own Forum  ????????  It should !!!

I, for one, prefer it to be where it is. As things get spread out into different forums, I lose track of them. In any case, it's far more time-consuming to skip around to see if anything new has been posted at different locations rather than having all the food set out on the same table.

I wish that Scot would offer nonpowered SD 7/9.

@harley rider posted:

I wish that Scot would offer nonpowered SD 7/9.

Why?  Are you really going to pay $500-$600 (maybe more) for a non-powered unit?  Because that is what they would cost.  When 3rd-Rail did offer an unpowered E-7 B unit, it was only $150 less than the powered A unit.  Jump to today's prices, you are looking at a powered SD7/9 running close to $750-$800.   Using the same delta for today's prices, that would mean an unpowered SD7/9 would run around $600-$650.   Buying a powered unit would also make your resell value better because the powered unit will hold its value much better.

Scott

@GG1 4877 posted:

Humbly asking for some input on the 2nd run of this locomotive.  We had a few painting errors on run #1, most egregiously with the missing sill stripes on the DM&IR SD9.  I'm working painting diagrams for the couple new road names that got added and doing QAQC on the first run painting.  If  you have anything that you would like to comment on related to painting, please feel free to send me an email (in my profile) or comment here on the forum.

I did the original painting diagrams in 2016 and as all the kids say these days, "it's been a minute".

Good Evening Jonathan,

I'm responding to your request for some info/help with the upcoming 2nd run of the SD7/SD9's.   This isn't related to the painting schemes but rather a couple of details that were overlooked in the first run,  mainly concerning the B&LE/DM&IR SD9's.   The short high hood "dinner bell" that is shown(and was used for the first run) is totally wrong for both these roads.   That style bell is only for Southern/Norfolk Southern SD9's.  The correct short high hood bell should be hanging from a fabricated/welded steel bracket mounted on the top front of the high short hood.  I modified my 2 B&LE and 1 DM&IR SD9's to have the correct bell as shown in the photos(before/after).   These 2 roads were also missing one of the steps at all four corners.   I contacted Scott at the time  and he graciously sent me the needed steps which I applied to my engines.   Many photos of the real engines can be found at rrpicturearchives.net.   Just passing along some info as I see the DM&IR engines on  the 2nd run list and possibly some B&LE's.

Interesting.  I had not seen the final Bessemer units until now.  Thanks for sharing!

Would love to see this Rio Grande paint scheme.   Would buy B&LE if it was available again.

Correction:  B&LE are listed on the reservation page, just not shown on the 2nd Run announcement. 

I emailed Scott regarding Rio Grande paint scheme, one can hope

I have 2 of the SP red nose units on order. I would much prefer these to be without the enormous headlight on the first run.

My plan is to have them as SD9Es, I would prefer to have to make as few changes as possible. It would be nice to have the full light pack that was on the  SP GP9s.

The numbers on the first run were pre 1965 renumbering, so that dates them to between about 1960 and 1965, any earlier and they would have in black widow livery. An unnumbered version would be good too.

Thanks

Richard

I think the SP SD9’s from the first run had the dual headlight and gyralight (4 lenses, same as GP9) as opposed to the big ash can signal light which was on the SD7 models.
Jonathan will be able to confirm what the light configuration will be on the 9’s.

I sent him a bunch of info on SD9 numbering during the bloody nose era. The original bloody nose scheme (before the big SP went on the nose) is prototypical for the original numbers, 1965 renumbering, and the SD9E rebuilds. The some of the 9E’s kept this scheme at least until the late 80s. My suggestion would be to offer 6 cab number options: 2 from each era. This allows one paint scheme to cover SP from 1959 until the late 80s, maybe even to the end. Not sure how many kept that paint job to the end.

Hi RYan

Thanks for the reply. The photos on the website of the red nose SD9s shows them with the big ash can signal light. That was correct for the first batch of SD9s but the other 4 batches had the dual headlight and gyralight, so I'm hoping that configuration is what is going to be produced. The numbers were also correct for that first batch up until the 1965 renumbering. SO I'm hoping for some post 65 renumbering numbers which I think were in the 7XXX series as opposed to the 5XXX series.

I agree the paint scheme lasted well past the 80s, I'm sure I have seen it right tohe very end of SP ownership and into shortline ownership after 2000.

I'm away on business at the moment so I don't have access to my strapac book to check everything.

Even if they do come with the big ligth, it's not the end of the world but there is always a bit of trepidation hacking into a $800 loco body to chop something off. There's no going back once you have started.

Richard

The bloody nose SP SD9s will have the same configuration and details as the Black Widow Run 1 SD9.  The photo on the website is not a production run model.  Hope that clarifies! 

@GG1 4877 posted:

The bloody nose SP SD9s will have the same configuration and details as the Black Widow Run 1 SD9.  The photo on the website is not a production run model.  Hope that clarifies!

Hi Jonathan,    
Will the “Tiger Stripe” have the “big ashcan signal light” as shown on the webpage ????

@TrainBub posted:

Hi Jonathan,    
Will the “Tiger Stripe” have the “big ashcan signal light” as shown on the webpage ????

Yes.  It will match the Run 1 configuration. 

@GG1 4877 posted:

Yes.  It will match the Run 1 configuration.

Great !!!!! 👍    
Thank You Sir !!!!!!!! 😜😉

@TrainBub posted:

Great !!!!! 👍    
Thank You Sir !!!!!!!! 😜😉

Didn't mean to be short in the last response.  Power was off at the office, so I was catching up on actually working on this project and doing QC so that I can have a few extra hours free this weekend.   Generally, the 2nd run will be the same as the first run with a few exceptions.  There will be graphics corrections, a few new road numbers in lieu of run 1 numbers, corrections that have been pointed out in this thread, and from those who emailed me directly.  I'm excited to get this project pulled together as the 1st run with a few exceptions was exceptional.

The undecorated unit will match CB&Q detailing.

Probably going to add an order for a Conrail 2-rail unit while I'm at it too.  Just what I need, another Sunset locomotive!

Hi Jonathan

Thanks for confirming the configuration of the locos, it looks like I and everyone else are going tobe very happy.

Richard

These are going to be **** fine looking models and I’m really looking forward to getting these. The SD7/9’s have been virtually non-existent on the resell market.

Last call on comments for these.  A bit of housekeeping.

• SP Tiger Stripe SD7 numbers are 5308 & 5316
• SP Black Widow SD7 numbers are 5318 & 5332
• SP Black Widow SD9 numbers are 5464, 5472, 5481, & 5483
• SP Bloody Nose - Still need to choose numbers.  Will have that done by tomorrow.
• DM&IR / B&LE marked up for correct bell type
• DM&IR sill stripes added
• PRR SD7 & SD9 horn corrected with all three chimes facing long hood forward on the Leslie S3L

Anything else?  Thanks!

Hi Jonathan

A couple of things.

I bought 2 SD40 T2s in SP red nose livery, the red isn't SP scarlet, it might be a well faded version but I would be disappointed if they used that red again.

As for numbers SD9E 4439, doesn;t have the airbox that was the major visual difference for the SD9Es and retained it's full complement of lights, theres a photo of it on page 89 of the Strapac book and a second one on page 90. of course they have the big SP on the nose, but I can soon add that from microscale decals..

For post 65 renumbering 3925 and  (page 57) and 3902  page 55 would fit the bill

Thanks

Richard

@GG1 4877 posted:

Last call on comments for these.  A bit of housekeeping.

• SP Tiger Stripe SD7 numbers are 5308 & 5316
• SP Black Widow SD7 numbers are 5318 & 5332
• SP Black Widow SD9 numbers are 5464, 5472, 5481, & 5483
• SP Bloody Nose - Still need to choose numbers.  Will have that done by tomorrow.
• DM&IR / B&LE marked up for correct bell type
• DM&IR sill stripes added
• PRR SD7 & SD9 horn corrected with all three chimes facing long hood forward on the Leslie S3L

Anything else?  Thanks!

Good Evening Jonathan,

There is one more possible correction for the B&LE SD9's involving a paint issue(that I forgot to mention in my previous post above).   I don't know what B&LE paint scheme is being used on this newest run but if it is the early scheme as used in the first run with the wide black body band running the length of the engine a small correction needs to be made.   The wide black band should extend all the way around the cab-front,  side,  and rear.   If you look  at my photos above that show the engine with the wrong bell,  you can see the wide black stripe was  missed on both the front and back of the cab.   In the photos of my corrected engine,  I also finished the black band all the way around the cab as it should be.   Again , photos with the correct paint schemes can be found at rrpicturearchives.net.   Sorry for forgetting about this in my earlier post.

@metalman posted:

Good Evening Jonathan,

There is one more possible correction for the B&LE SD9's involving a paint issue(that I forgot to mention in my previous post above).   I don't know what B&LE paint scheme is being used on this newest run but if it is the early scheme as used in the first run with the wide black body band running the length of the engine a small correction needs to be made.   The wide black band should extend all the way around the cab-front,  side,  and rear.   If you look  at my photos above that show the engine with the wrong bell,  you can see the wide black stripe was  missed on both the front and back of the cab.   In the photos of my corrected engine,  I also finished the black band all the way around the cab as it should be.   Again , photos with the correct paint schemes can be found at rrpicturearchives.net.   Sorry for forgetting about this in my earlier post.

Good catch, thank you. 

@Richard Carr posted:

Hi Jonathan

A couple of things.

I bought 2 SD40 T2s in SP red nose livery, the red isn't SP scarlet, it might be a well faded version but I would be disappointed if they used that red again.

As for numbers SD9E 4439, doesn;t have the airbox that was the major visual difference for the SD9Es and retained it's full complement of lights, theres a photo of it on page 89 of the Strapac book and a second one on page 90. of course they have the big SP on the nose, but I can soon add that from microscale decals..

For post 65 renumbering 3925 and  (page 57) and 3902  page 55 would fit the bill

Thanks

Richard

SP Scarlet will match the Krauss Maffei Scarlet which is correct.  We won't be adding the airboxes on the top of the SP-Red SD9 as the tooling will match the SP-Black Widow tooling and details that I posted earlier.

Hi Jonathan

I don't expect you to add the air boxes as I appreciate that would require new tooling that costs significant money.

That's why I would like to see 4439 as it didn't receive the airbox when it was upgraded to a SD9E. If I wanted to add one, that is easy enough to 3D print.

Thanks for confirming the correct SP scarlet, even by the 90s many SD9s still had pretty good paint work from some of the photos I have found.

Many thanks

Richard