3rd Rail Update from China

Scott,

With the hopeful popularity of the Silver Meteor, I would think a continued "Southern" swing would be appropriate. I would like to see the blunt end obs already created modified for the ACL, the Pullman sleepers offered with Southern or ACL lettering (especially the purple/silver versions) and maybe another run of the 54 foot express reefers. 

Yes, many of your products are out of my price range, but I do try to pick up some extra cars here and there from you. 

As for steam, here are my suggestions:

ACL R-1 (also suitable for RF&P)

ACL K-15s 4-6-0 (suitable for ACL, Rockingham RR, East Carolina RR & V&CS)

ACL P-5a Pacifics

Southern PS-4 1380 (Only streamlined steam locomotive on Southern)

Rule292 posted:

You're in a pickle since the trend is to build more modern equipment.  Luckily as a turn of the century modeler you can scratchbuild most everything else that you need since most of it is wood.   

Oh, I'd go for a D16 (D16sb of course) just since it was the first steamer I ever rode behind.  

. 

While I may have been pickled at times in the past, I try very hard to not be in one,

I have yet to build a steam engine out of wood, however, steeple cab electrics are prototypically known.....

A D16sb is too modern,

Hot Water posted:

TP Fan posted:

Scott,

Please, PLEASE, no more PRR or NYC steam locomotives, especially since you have pretty much done most of them!

Douglas

You had better go back and do your research. Sunset/3rd Rail has NOT done an NYC K5 Pacific, nor the H9/H10 2-8-2s, nor the L4b roller bearing rods Mohawks, for example.

And there is a long list of missing PRR engines, too..... 

Central Vermont Consolidations please.  Depending on price and configuration, I'd be in for two to four.

I see a pattern-all of us want particular items but nothing in common! Haha.

86TA355SR posted:

I see a pattern-all of us want particular items but nothing in common! Haha.

C'mon now... either we want PRR or we don't want PRR! 

Boy,,,,,talk about "thread drift".

But, I sure could go for a Rock Island 4-8-4, one of the bigger versions. Besides, didn't the Rock Island have the largest fleet of 4-8-4s in the U.S.?

  The reason that I asked that no more NYC and PRR steamers be built is so many have already been built. Yes there are some relatively obscure variations that have not been built but the same holds true for all the major railroads.  How many versions of the NYC streamlined Hudson have been made?  One reason people have lost interest in buying new engines is it is the same old same old (read NYC or PRR) at a higher price.  With the exception of the Santa Fe the manufactures have paid little interest to southern and western railroads and now the market for eastern roads is saturated, at some point there are enough scale Hudsons and GG1s.

  There are so many engines that have not been manufactured in 1:48 scale that are interesting from a historical and mechanical point.  One of the reasons hobbyists go with HO scale is the selection of engine types and road names are greater. These would provide more interest than another NYC or PRR variation and appeal to a wider market.

  My personal suggestion is to manufacture smaller engines (think consolidations 2-8-0  that could appeal to smaller layouts with tighter turns and consider making engines from the 1890s.

  I am really glad to see the "Texan" might be built although the $1,700.00 price is daunting. 

Douglas 

Yes, the Rock Island had the largest American fleet of 4-8-4's.  There were 2 classes of them; 5000 and the 5100 series.  The photo that I posted is of the later 5100 class.

Yes, there is a drift in this topic but Scott of Sunset was asking for new ideas.  And I didn't want to bring up suggestions for models that have already been done numerous times before.

The Anthracite roads have been neglected.  Hence my mention of a Jersey Central 4-8-0 Camelback and the Lackawanna Hudson as shown above.  Thanks goodness Sunset brought in the Erie Berkshire; what a magnificent model!

So please chime in and let everyone know what you think would be a popular steam engine for Sunset to bring in.

Steve

I would like to see Scott do a B&O N-1, the first duplex steamer made, and for an anniversary series steamer the Virginian triplex 2-8-8-8-4. Mth has done the Erie triplex with Virginian lettering on it. The boiler is much bigger and the wheel arrangement is different from Erie. 

Just my 2 cents

TP Fan posted:

  The reason that I asked that no more NYC and PRR steamers be built is so many have already been built. Yes there are some relatively obscure variations that have not been built but the same holds true for all the major railroads.  How many versions of the NYC streamlined Hudson have been made?  One reason people have lost interest in buying new engines is it is the same old same old (read NYC or PRR) at a higher price.  With the exception of the Santa Fe the manufactures have paid little interest to southern and western railroads and now the market for eastern roads is saturated, at some point there are enough scale Hudsons and GG1s.

  There are so many engines that have not been manufactured in 1:48 scale that are interesting from a historical and mechanical point.  One of the reasons hobbyists go with HO scale is the selection of engine types and road names are greater. These would provide more interest than another NYC or PRR variation and appeal to a wider market.

  My personal suggestion is to manufacture smaller engines (think consolidations 2-8-0&nbsp that could appeal to smaller layouts with tighter turns and consider making engines from the 1890s.

  I am really glad to see the "Texan" might be built although the $1,700.00 price is daunting. 

Douglas 

Hot Water can confirm this as I know he has the Super Hudson done by 3rdrail which I'm pretty sure was the last NYC steam done by 3rdrail and I'm think that was 8-10 years ago?  So it's been a long time.  I'd sell my MTH L4b and buy brass if 3rdrail did a L4 with roller bearing side rods.  

TP Fan posted:

    My personal suggestion is to manufacture smaller engines (think consolidations 2-8-0&nbsp that could appeal to smaller layouts with tighter turns.

Well, good luck with that!  it's too logical...I couldn't agree with you more!

However, the reality, as explained to me at the 3rd Rail booth at York, is that small engines don't seem to garner reservations/sales like the larger ones do for their business.  I used your same logic in advocating the ATSF 2-6-2 Prairie for a project.  Well, Scott ran the test announcement a couple years ago.....to never get sufficient reservations for a 'go' project. () 

More recently, they're offering the B&O E-27 2-8-0.  But, as of April's York meet, they were way low on reservations for a viable project.  Go figure.

Maybe it's a 'guy' thing.....bigger is better!??  The DRGW L-131 2-8-8-2 had no problem in gaining sufficient interest!...delivery imminent!!!

Then there's the accepted O3R design standard that, if you knock enough flanges off the extra drivers on a steam engine, it'll negotiate street trackage!...You know, a 4-12-2 rated for O-72 curves (18" radius in HO terms!)!!.

So, again, I wish you luck on this advocacy.  Of course, we'll both keep trying to push this idea up a hill with a rope!  As Spock once said......"It's only logical!"

KD

KD is completely correct about smaller steam power. The Santa Claus Prarie garnered very little interest although part of that was due to  the fact that the version to be done was never clearly defined, The B&O E-27 is a locomotive people have said for years they really wanted to see made.  40 some reservations say otherwise. 

The SP 0-6-0 is being produced but reservations are below what was expected. If Scott had not committed to the project I doubt we would see it.

Remember the old Wendy's commercial "where's the beef?" The train version seems to be "where's the wheels?"  The more the better.

rheil posted:

KD is completely correct about smaller steam power. The Santa Claus Prarie garnered very little interest although part of that was due to  the fact that the version to be done was never clearly defined, The B&O E-27 is a locomotive people have said for years they really wanted to see made.  40 some reservations say otherwise. 

The SP 0-6-0 is being produced but reservations are below what was expected. If Scott had not committed to the project I doubt we would see it.

Remember the old Wendy's commercial "where's the beef?" The train version seems to be "where's the wheels?"  The more the better.

Bob, I know we all pile on these threads with suggestions... but what is the best way to get them to you and Scott for consideration?

Point being is that we know that  money and reservations are what makes models happen... so we'd like to at least get our likes and interests grouped together so you guys can have something to go on.

Thanks!

Now about that PRR H8/9/10... 

What I find a personal frustration, and falls into the "small steam does not sell" mantra is that I cannot get a 3-rd Rail "small steam" engine manufactured as recently as 2013. 

"I want" the Sunset 3-rd Rail CP D-10 "Early" 4-6-0. Managed to get the "Late" version. It really hasn't been such a long time since 2013. Seems like yesterday to me!

However, in 2013 I was not back in this hobby. I had no opportunity to order.

And now, already, it's "unobtanium!"

DaveJfr0 posted:

I do hope Scott can squeeze in a Southern Crescent to go with the E8's before its too expensive to make passenger cars anymore.  If not, I'll have fun making my own.

I'm hoping for a B&O 1950's Capitol limited, and a north coast limited domeliner.  hopefully we can get a few more sets in after the empire builder, sunset limited and the silver meteor are produced. 

Rule292 posted

Bob, I know we all pile on these threads with suggestions... but what is the best way to get them to you and Scott for consideration?

Thanks!

 

Now about that PRR H8/9/10... 

 

Rob,

I will be at the PRRT&HS convention on Friday the 13th with a table to discuss Sunset/GGD projects. If you will be there please stop and talk to me. I'll also be at all the Strasburg shows if you get to those.

Bob

Dj'sOgaugetrains posted

I'm hoping for a B&O 1950's Capitol limited, and a north coast limited domeliner.  hopefully we can get a few more sets in after the empire builder, sunset limited and the silver meteor are produced. 

North Coast Limited will probably happen after the GN Empire Builder. B&O Capitol Limited is a tough one. I have a 13 car version which is basically completely accurate for that train. It is a mix of various cars including GGD combine, 12 and 1 sleeper, and 10 and 6 sleepers, Mac Shops Bird series 12 and 4 duplex sleeper, Mac Shops "light" series ex C&O dome car, twin unit diner built from custom brass car sides, GGD Santa Fe sleeper, Wawassee sleeper/obs built from custom sides. As you can see no one style car can be used to make this train.

The best possibility is if GGD does some of the fluted cars as used on the C&O, DRGW, NYC, etc. A start would be to get one of the upcoming GGD B&O 12  and 1 sleepers.

rheil posted:

Dj'sOgaugetrains posted

I'm hoping for a B&O 1950's Capitol limited, and a north coast limited domeliner.  hopefully we can get a few more sets in after the empire builder, sunset limited and the silver meteor are produced. 

North Coast Limited will probably happen after the GN Empire Builder. B&O Capitol Limited is a tough one. I have a 13 car version which is basically completely accurate for that train. It is a mix of various cars including GGD combine, 12 and 1 sleeper, and 10 and 6 sleepers, Mac Shops Bird series 12 and 4 duplex sleeper, Mac Shops "light" series ex C&O dome car, twin unit diner built from custom brass car sides, GGD Santa Fe sleeper, Wawassee sleeper/obs built from custom sides. As you can see no one style car can be used to make this train.

The best possibility is if GGD does some of the fluted cars as used on the C&O, DRGW, NYC, etc. A start would be to get one of the upcoming GGD B&O 12  and 1 sleepers.

I have the GGD columbian and 1 B&O slumbercoaches. My hope is to one day have the combined columbian/ Capitol limited train. I saw the HO Walthers version of this set and it's beautiful. Would a 12-1 sleeper be correct for that time period? Also do you have any pictures of your custom Capitol limited? Would love to see it.  

David

rheil posted:

Rule292 posted

Bob, I know we all pile on these threads with suggestions... but what is the best way to get them to you and Scott for consideration?

Thanks!

 

Now about that PRR H8/9/10... 

 

Rob,

I will be at the PRRT&HS convention on Friday the 13th with a table to discuss Sunset/GGD projects. If you will be there please stop and talk to me. I'll also be at all the Strasburg shows if you get to those.

Bob

Thanks Bob.  I might make the convention and I usually make every one of the Strasburg shows. 

Oh, don't you mean Friday the 20th for the convention?

Scott----My Milwaukee Road dreams would come true with a 2-6-2, a G6 4-6-0. and an 0-6-0. Please, please before I get too old to enjoy (or purchase) them.  Odd-d

T&NO (part of SP) streamlines 4-6-2 Pacifics uses on the SUNBEAM and the HUSTLER, both Houston to Dallas!

Rule292 posted

Thanks Bob.  I might make the convention and I usually make every one of the Strasburg shows. 

Oh, don't you mean Friday the 20th for the convention?

 

Yes. Friday the 20th. Thanks.

dkdkrd posted:

Maybe it's a 'guy' thing.....bigger is better!?? 

Are you suggesting that some might be compensating for other inadequacies?

mwb posted:

dkdkrd posted:

Maybe it's a 'guy' thing.....bigger is better!?? 

Are you suggesting that some might be compensating for other inadequacies?

Why, Martin!  Whatever gave you such a thought???

Dj'sOgaugetrains posted:

I have the GGD columbian and 1 B&O slumbercoaches. My hope is to one day have the combined columbian/ Capitol limited train. I saw the HO Walthers version of this set and it's beautiful. Would a 12-1 sleeper be correct for that time period? Also do you have any pictures of your custom Capitol limited? Would love to see it.  

David

 

 

David, The Walthers HO train is indeed a masterpiece. The Cap had a heavyweight 12 and 1 sleeper through the 1950's which was primarily used by government personnel due to their budget constraints ie not permitted to spend the $ for a roomette. The combine from your Columbian is also correct for use on the Cap, particularly when the trains were combined as happened between Willard - Chicago frequently in the later '50's. Same applies for you Slumbercoach as the first two went in service on The Columbian in 1958 and were used on the combined Columbian / Capitol.

I don't have any photos of my train at this time but expect to purchase a digital camera sometime soon for such purposes. Be aware, though, I am a 2 railer.

rheil posted:

KD is completely correct about smaller steam power. The Santa Claus Prarie garnered very little interest although part of that was due to  the fact that the version to be done was never clearly defined, The B&O E-27 is a locomotive people have said for years they really wanted to see made.  40 some reservations say otherwise. 

The SP 0-6-0 is being produced but reservations are below what was expected. If Scott had not committed to the project I doubt we would see it.

Remember the old Wendy's commercial "where's the beef?" The train version seems to be "where's the wheels?"  The more the better.

Until I can get 2R steam with sound and smoke from the factory I won't be ordering anymore steam. If I could get the E-27 with sound/smoke I'd order a pair. I vastly prefer small  steam over large steam, but I'm not about to gut every engine and retrofit a smoke unit in there. So that leaves MTH as the only game in town. I'd rather buy from Scott than MTH, but I don't have the choice.

I sincerely hope 2 rail engines are NEVER offered with "smoke" units.  I really don't want to pay for something I'll never use.

jonnyspeed posted:

rheil posted:

KD is completely correct about smaller steam power. The Santa Claus Prarie garnered very little interest although part of that was due to  the fact that the version to be done was never clearly defined, The B&O E-27 is a locomotive people have said for years they really wanted to see made.  40 some reservations say otherwise. 

The SP 0-6-0 is being produced but reservations are below what was expected. If Scott had not committed to the project I doubt we would see it.

Remember the old Wendy's commercial "where's the beef?" The train version seems to be "where's the wheels?"  The more the better.

Until I can get 2R steam with sound and smoke from the factory I won't be ordering anymore steam. If I could get the E-27 with sound/smoke I'd order a pair. I vastly prefer small  steam over large steam, but I'm not about to gut every engine and retrofit a smoke unit in there. So that leaves MTH as the only game in town. I'd rather buy from Scott than MTH, but I don't have the choice.

Jonathan, 

 Please e-mail Scott and let him know about your desire for sound and smoke in the E-27. There is a good possibility he can do that since it is being offered as an option on the 2 rail D&RGW L-131 locomotives. Every reservation helps.

dkdkrd posted:

mwb posted:

dkdkrd posted:

Maybe it's a 'guy' thing.....bigger is better!?? 

Are you suggesting that some might be compensating for other inadequacies?

Why, Martin!  Whatever gave you such a thought???

Well, you know that my My mind is aglow with whirling, transient nodes of thought careening through a cosmic vapor of invention.

Nothing in common someone posted ?, not here, I'll take two of any of the small Milw Rd Steamers mentioned above, without smoke though :-)

I'd love to get Strasburg RR #90.

rheil posted:

Dj'sOgaugetrains posted:

I have the GGD columbian and 1 B&O slumbercoaches. My hope is to one day have the combined columbian/ Capitol limited train. I saw the HO Walthers version of this set and it's beautiful. Would a 12-1 sleeper be correct for that time period? Also do you have any pictures of your custom Capitol limited? Would love to see it.  

David

 

 

David, The Walthers HO train is indeed a masterpiece. The Cap had a heavyweight 12 and 1 sleeper through the 1950's which was primarily used by government personnel due to their budget constraints ie not permitted to spend the $ for a roomette. The combine from your Columbian is also correct for use on the Cap, particularly when the trains were combined as happened between Willard - Chicago frequently in the later '50's. Same applies for you Slumbercoach as the first two went in service on The Columbian in 1958 and were used on the combined Columbian / Capitol.

 

I don't have any photos of my train at this time but expect to purchase a digital camera sometime soon for such purposes. Be aware, though, I am a 2 railer.

I like watching 2 rail layouts and ho scale layouts on YouTube for the realism. I just saw a 13 car ho Capitol limited. It had the 50' baggage (which I reserved from 3rd rail) the 12-1 sleeper and a heavyweight diner. Also a Santa Fe run through 4-4-2. The other cars would be a challange to make in 3 rail. The train is such a mix of equipment. I know the 5-3-1 dome is an ex c&o. I think the twin unit diner used later on was NYC. Am I correct? Where did the 16-4 sleepers, the 10-6 sleepers and the observation car come from?

Dj'sOgaugetrains posted

I like watching 2 rail layouts and ho scale layouts on YouTube for the realism. I just saw a 13 car ho Capitol limited. It had the 50' baggage (which I reserved from 3rd rail) the 12-1 sleeper and a heavyweight diner. Also a Santa Fe run through 4-4-2. The other cars would be a challange to make in 3 rail. The train is such a mix of equipment. I know the 5-3-1 dome is an ex c&o. I think the twin unit diner used later on was NYC. Am I correct? Where did the 16-4 sleepers, the 10-6 sleepers and the observation car come from?

 

Dome car and the 16 and 4 duplex are Mac Shops kits. 10 and 6 sleepers are Golden Gate. I forgot that I have a Santa Fe 4-4-2 in my consist and it is Golden Gate. Twin unit diner and observation/sleeper are built from brass sides. All three of these cars have fluting below the windows. The fluting is Evergreen plastic. Obs is also ex C&O car.

Union Station Products can  make the sleeper/obs and diner sides for you.

I don't feel like reading, all of the above, but I am definitely done with any steamers with more than 8 drivers.

rheil posted:

Dj'sOgaugetrains posted

I like watching 2 rail layouts and ho scale layouts on YouTube for the realism. I just saw a 13 car ho Capitol limited. It had the 50' baggage (which I reserved from 3rd rail) the 12-1 sleeper and a heavyweight diner. Also a Santa Fe run through 4-4-2. The other cars would be a challange to make in 3 rail. The train is such a mix of equipment. I know the 5-3-1 dome is an ex c&o. I think the twin unit diner used later on was NYC. Am I correct? Where did the 16-4 sleepers, the 10-6 sleepers and the observation car come from?

 

Dome car and the 16 and 4 duplex are Mac Shops kits. 10 and 6 sleepers are Golden Gate. I forgot that I have a Santa Fe 4-4-2 in my consist and it is Golden Gate. Twin unit diner and observation/sleeper are built from brass sides. All three of these cars have fluting below the windows. The fluting is Evergreen plastic. Obs is also ex C&O car.

 

Union Station Products can  make the sleeper/obs and diner sides for you.

 

This is great info and I think it would be fun to piece this train together over the corse of some time. I will look into Mac shops, union station products and evergreen plastics. Did you buy GGD 10-6 sleepers in B&O and add the side skirting?

I wouldn't exactly call the NYC K-5 Pacific "obscure".

The NYC also had the first modern Mikado (Lima-built H-10), direct ancestor of the Lima A-1 Berkshire and of "Super-Power" in general. The NYC also had numerous - for them - 2-6-6-2 Mallets (not the USRA, but smaller) and about 14 fat 0-8-8-0 hump switchers.

======

But then - the 2 locos that really should be done are the NC&StL 4-8-4 Streamstyled Dixie and the Louisville and Nashville M-1 Berkshire - the most modern Berk ever built (the last batch by Lima) - contemporaries of the last NKP and P&LE berkshires.

Yes, we do but this stuff below the Mason-Dixon line - bunches of it. (And not just me, either.) My Weaver brass Southern #1380 streamlined Ps-4 is a jewel - especially after I upgraded it to ERR innards.

The Dixie has been done successfully in HO fairly recently, and the L&N "Big Emma" (M-1 class) Berk has been done in 2-rail O (and HO, FWIW).  

Would love to see a T&NO Mikado done. Preferably #786.

I did one.  Measured the tailbeam while it was at the firehouse near the Holiday Inn during an AUS layover.  Mine has a properly tapered boiler.  Photos on MTJ.

D500 posted:

<snip>

But then - the 2 locos that really should be done are the NC&StL 4-8-4 Streamstyled Dixie and the Louisville and Nashville M-1 Berkshire - the most modern Berk ever built (the last batch by Lima) - contemporaries of the last NKP and P&LE berkshires.

Yes, we do but this stuff below the Mason-Dixon line - bunches of it. (And not just me, either.) My Weaver brass Southern #1380 streamlined Ps-4 is a jewel - especially after I upgraded it to ERR innards.

The Dixie has been done successfully in HO fairly recently, and the L&N "Big Emma" (M-1 class) Berk has been done in 2-rail O (and HO, FWIW).  

Tried a couple of years ago to whip up interest in an L&N M-1. Deafening silence.

I'm about tapped out on locos-space and dollars. But two I'd spring for are the M-1 and a Reading K-1. 2-10-2. Looks like, though, my money and diminished storage space are safe.