A LOOK AT LIONEL'S CAB FORWARD INSIDE THE BOILER//PICTURES

Thanks for sharing the photos Alex, it's always cool to see what's inside and how everything works.

I'm surprised the fan melted a little, I guess this particular engine just needs to really be filled with fluid. 

After looking at your photos I'm wondering how many other unit's fans have problems that the owners are unaware of because of lack of fluid!

Excellent exposé!

 Man Alex that took some big b***s to open that sucker up, brand new and all. But I know you're the guy to do it  Nice to see how it all comes together.

Now if only MTH would take notice of the neat wiring under the shell  That's how ya do it!

Good point on the amount of smoke fluid. I was recently tinkering with some smoke units on some of my MTH diesels because they were so inconsistent. I preloaded it with 25 drops after re-stuffing the batting, and that barely made it moist. I ended up putting 45 drops in that thing before finally getting a good soak. I am always afraid (like most people) of over filling the reservoir.....and you know I've done that before

Thanks for the insider look.

Overall the disassembly and innards look very similar to the original 2005, except of course for the dual-smoke unit.

One thing that is not easy on the 2005 version, though, is to replace the traction tires.  For whatever reason, Lionel decided to locate traction tires on the wheels closest to the pistons, which places them directly behind the crossheads.  This makes replacing the traction tires a royal pain in the tush.  Is this latest version the same way, or did they move the traction tires on the opposite ends away from the crossheads to make it easier to replace?

Me too - surprised that is. Not good and I'm surprised this happened - presumably when the smoke unit resistors were heated and the fan was not spinning, which I assume can only mean that this is the whistle smoke fan that melted and it happened when the fan was stationary. May militate in favor of saturating the wadding before running this engine, which it seems can only be done by taking off the boiler shell. I'll decide whether to do that when my DAYLIGHT version arrives.

How does one make sure the fluid is going in both sides and not just all flowing into the main side?

This makes us all who ordered this engine more appreciative of the craftsmanship that we will soon be receiving. This is a magnificent addition to your train inventory, Alex.

Hi John,

Believe it or not, this engine has the traction tires in the same place as the older version. That's the only thing I wasn't to happy about.

Thanks,

alex

The smoke funnel has channels and also there's two hole's inside the smoke funnel which will disperse the fluid to both reservoirs.

alex

Me too - surprised that is. Not good and I'm surprised this happened - presumably when the smoke unit resistors were heated and the fan was not spinning, which I assume can only mean that this is the whistle smoke fan that melted and it happened when the fan was stationary. May militate in favor of saturating the wadding before running this engine, which it seems can only be done by taking off the boiler shell. I'll decide whether to do that when my DAYLIGHT version arrives.

Handcock52,

   You don't have to take off the boiler shell when yours arrives, just add about 35 drops then blow air down the stack, and it will work fine. I only took the shell off because i was curious what this smoke unit looked like.

   I was thinking from now on when I get a new engine, I might do a thread like this

calling it (A LOOK AT THE INNER WORKINGS)

Thanks,

Alex

Alex, maybe "A Look at the Inner Workings"?

Nothing like voiding the warranty for all the world to see!  LOL!  I kid.  

Thanks for the peak inside Alex. 

With the Texas class, I usually refill the smoke unit with generous amounts of fluid too. The wick always seems to suck it in fine. 

very good post.  great info.

Good advice and also a very good idea Alex. (I still wonder what made one of the fans melt. It's not as though it's that close to the resistor in this smoke unit design.)

I regard Eric Siegel's reviews as the gold standard of informed comment on new engines but I can't think of one where he's taken off the boiler shell of a new steamer! It certainly satisfied my curiosity to see what's new inside this issue of Lionel's AC-12. I didn't expect any change in the traction tire location because essentially Lionel is recycling its 2005 tooling, which on the whole was excellent. No doubt they are trying to maximise the return on the investment made in that tooling whatever exactly it amounted to.

Hmmm, I would call this a design flaw. I wonder how many have purchased this engine who don't read this forum? I know of at least one and he has already put a few hours on it. it will be interesting to see how Lionel addresses this problem.

Pete

Alex, I started taking things apart when I was about 5 years old.  I still do it most of the time.  Have you taken anything apart recently, besides trains, that was disappointing.

Hi guy's ,

I would just like to say, this Cab forward is one of the nicest engines I've ever purchased from Lionel. If anybody is looking to purchase this engine I wouldn't hesitate for one second. It's a home run, This engine was built with care and quality. She a great runner and it glides on the rails so smooth, the sound and whistle are fantastic.

Thanks,

Alex

Indeed she is Alex.  I'm a huge SP fan and therefore also a huge cab forward fan by default.  Whenever I travel up north to visit family I always try to fit in a side trip to go see #4294 in her final resting place at the CSRM in Sacramento whenever possible.  I was born long after she and her sisters were retired, but my father always told me about how he used to see them blow by though town virtually every day when he was a kid.  Glad you like your model of it, and I'm glad both Lionel, MTH, and 3rd Rail have offered these unique engines in O gauge/scale.

The resistor stays heated when the fan is not spinning. I can't see that this would be a problem with the main stack fan because that is running most of the time the engine is under power. I suppose that if this particular smoke unit is a good smoker it's not necessary to leave it on the high setting all the time. 

The unit looks to be a different design from other dual chamber units I've seen. I can't recall another report of this kind of damage to a Lionel whistle smoke unit.

Alex

Thanks for the great review. I also have a cab forward on order at RO.

I wonder if I should treat the smoke unit in my Lionel  UP H7 2 -8 -8 - 2 the same way. It is a great smoker, but it sure drinks it up fast.

Also, I do not remember seeing Whistle Smoke listed in the catolog description of the

SP Cab Forward. maybe I just read over it. This will be my first Lionel engine with this feature. I am really looking forward to getting this engine.

Thanks,

Richard

Thanks Alex for the inside look and the quick review of the smoke unit. Looking forward to your next inside look!

Rich in NH

Hi Alex,  very informative!  If George Brown decides to hang up writing engine reviews in OGR,  you would be a natural to step in and fill those big shoes since many of his reviews look under the hood as well. I struggle some times just taking off the lids covering the engine switches....

All the best, dave 

The Whistle stack stays heated - but at a reduced temperature.  The impeller should not melt.  I would get a replacement part Alex, the imbalance of the impeller will damage the fan motor from being out of balance.

Good advice Jon. Maybe I have missed something but I don't see a Lionel replacement parts page/diagram for these Legacy engines yet. I assume however that the impeller is a standard size.

I'd be interested to know what you find when you do. If there's some defect in these SMUs of the kind that Alex identified earlier (the impeller being melted as referred to above) then it's going to need to be addressed in a whole lot of AC-12s that have just shipped - especially mine!

Even though I don't own any big steamers, this was fascinating. Thank you Alex.

Paul

Hi Guys

Thanks for the kind words, I enjoy opening up engine's and seeing what new inside

Alex

Before I even open it up, I'm going to guess that lack of smoke fluid has caused some damage. It smoked like crazy when it was new (I've had it several months now) and then it just kind of petered out. Now it barely smokes at all, and the whistle smoke hardly ever gets ANY smoke.

Well, it obviously hasn't got a burned-out AC regulator because then you'd be getting nothing in the way of smoke at all except of course from damaged components and the scent of that is pretty unmistakable.

I'm inclined to agree that it's probably charred wicking but of course to get to that you have to take the boiler shell off and the SMU apart. The shell itself should not be difficult to remove as it's substantially the same as Lionel's 2005 cab forward and has either 3 or 4 mounting screws. 

On the other hand if the impellers have been damaged that's not as easy to rectify but I look forward to confirmation that you have NOT got such a problem.

Hi Doug

Here's the mounting screws i remember taking out.

The politically correct engine crew is a hoot !..yellow overalls !!  really ?

First, thanks for posting this - it's nice to see that Lionel did a good job of organizing the wiring.

Second, I'm with Jon Z on replacing that smoke impeller. The first thing I thought when I  saw the picture was that the fan is out of balance, the motor spins fast, and the imbalance will eventually wipe out the motor bearings. I wonder if the impeller might not have been defective in the first place, rather than being damaged by heat after delivery. In the meantime, it would be a good idea to go back and clip the vane opposite the one that was removed - that would put the impeller much closer to balance than the way it is now. 

I agree, seems like the smoke unit would have to get awful **** hot to melt the impeller thats located in a different housing away from the element.

I would think the impeller would have to be in direct contact with the resistor to melt, that obviously couldn't have happened.

When you take the shells off Lionels newer Legacy engines you need to be VERY Careful with the 2 wire antenna plug.  That goes into the Receiver and it can pull out of the main board.  It has 3 + 4 header pins that are almost exactly like PS-2 3V header pins.  You can pull that board out and snap the pins.

Also that batting under the divider is also a main method to wicking fluid over to the whistle steam side.  Fluid has to travel down the main stack and batting (easy), but than over and up to the whistle steam element (harder).  Hence the need to extra fluid, or a good priming when disassembled.

Nice pictures Alex.   G